[Vreimann]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

I wish you Canadians would keep your cold weather to yourselves.

Sorry TDI, we would love to not have this too. Weather network was forecasting -39C this morning. I was so happy to see it was only -29C. It is supposed to stay like this until March 5.

[TDIwyse]

Drive to work was -10F air temps. Kept a closer eye on the temp probe data for the temp of the catch can at the closest point to the engine/exhaust. Coldest I saw was 11F. That's definitely cold enough to freeze a slow moving high humidity air stream...

So after thinking about the condensation on the vent tubes pre/post catch can, it makes me think the BMS can isn't doing a very good job of catching the fumes from the crankcase. If it was, the condensation should be staying behind in the input tubing and can and not coming out and coalescing on the output tubing at basically the same level. Thoughts?

[Mark M]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Drive to work was -10F air temps. Kept a closer eye on the temp probe data for the temp of the catch can at the closest point to the engine/exhaust. Coldest I saw was 11F. That's definitely cold enough to freeze a slow moving high humidity air stream...

So after thinking about the condensation on the vent tubes pre/post catch can, it makes me think the BMS can isn't doing a very good job of catching the fumes from the crankcase. If it was, the condensation should be staying behind in the input tubing and can and not coming out and coalescing on the output tubing at basically the same level. Thoughts?

Good observation, not sure of the science associated with water vapor coalescing vs oil vapor coalescing given that they have different element weights. Possible way to test your hypothesis is to rig up your ProVent and do similar water gauge observations and hose observations.

The other point, even if the BMS can is doing an acceptable job coalescing the oil vapors, I'd suspect in your extreme cold environment you'll still have condensation in the return hose as the warm air meets the cold hose walls. It is analogous to breathing hot air on a cold mirror and seeing it fog up then condense.

The other week I looked at a couple RV websites. Had the idea to try 12volt heat tape similar to what the RV industry uses on their PVC water lines. But I never ventured to far down that path as winter here in PA is not normally this extreme and my car is garage kept.

[BB_cuda]

Water condenses at the dew point for that pressure. Since this area is below atmospheric pressure, the dew point should be further depressed. We made a cup of water boil at room temperature using a vacuum bell at work one time. EDIT: In the bell jar experiment, the boiling point was reduced from 212°F at atmospheirc pressure to 75°F at bell pressure.
Condensation point of oil vapors is a whole different thing. My presumption is the condensation point of oil is a whole lot higher than water as we don't boil our oil away in the crank case. This is a subjective judgement though. I have no tech data for motor oil boiling/liquification point at atmospheric pressure nevermind at the vacuum levels TDI measured.

a little later. I googled for motor oil boiling point at got ~300°C ... not sure i believe this. I think its time to use the infrared temp scanner on the dipstick after getting car to operating temperature. I'm thinking around 185°F like the water temp is. If this is truley the case, how can we be vaporizing oil in first place. Perhaps some oil is getting on underneath of pistons which are smoking hot from combustion. The thermal geek is trying to understand what is really going on for which we're building a better mouse trap (err catch can) for. If oil really recondenses at this high temp, the catch can is okay in a warm area under hood.

[135i_vs_]

Finally got the part needed to start my inline catch can. This will simply replace the rubber hose with minimal tubing. This will be stealthy and also prevent any frozen droplets from ever getting in the intake path. Should be a very clean install.

I don't care if I have to drain it more often due to its small size. I just need it to work reliably.

Part is good for 0-90psi.

[TDIwyse]

Wow. What kind of pressure differential are you expecting to see across that tiny thing with the amount of crankcase flow the engine needs to vent? I'd be really concerned that you are going to have trouble adequately venting and will cause serious issues with your engine/turbo seals...

[135i_vs_]

I'll take some before and after cranckcase pressure measurements.

This little thing is good for upto 90psi, so I'd assume it is more than sufficient. Besides, I have the trusty SES light to tell me "Insufficient Flow for Crankcase Ventilaion".

[Puerto Rican 335d]

135i i want the link and where do i put it at ok gracias

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by 135i_vs_

I'll take some before and after cranckcase pressure measurements.

This little thing is good for upto 90psi, so I'd assume it is more than sufficient. Besides, I have the trusty SES light to tell me "Insufficient Flow for Crankcase Ventilaion".

Looking forward to your results. But just a caution, max psi ratings are not the concern with this. The oil seals in your engine/turbo will blow long before the crankcase venting builds anywhere close to 90psi.

What code is the "Insufficient Flow for Crankcase Ventilation" and how does the car check that?

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Drive to work was -10F air temps. Kept a closer eye on the temp probe data for the temp of the catch can at the closest point to the engine/exhaust. Coldest I saw was 11F. That's definitely cold enough to freeze a slow moving high humidity air stream...

-10F at my house again this morning. This time I fully covered all the openings on the front of the car (intercooler, both vents by the front wheels, as well as keeping the kidney grills covered). Big difference in the underhood temps. The can temp stabilized at ~43F, with the coldest temp observed being 42F. And the car actually got fully up to temp (185F) at mile 10, where as yesterday with just the kidney and passenger side openings covered it never got up to temp.

[135i_vs_]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Looking forward to your results. But just a caution, max psi ratings are not the concern with this. The oil seals in your engine/turbo will blow long before the crankcase venting builds anywhere close to 90psi.

What code is the "Insufficient Flow for Crankcase Ventilation" and how does the car check that?

TDI, what if I ship it out to you; are will able to do some quick R&D? It seems like you have the equipment to measure the pressure differential. I'll be in Shakopee March 9th - 12th.

It does look restrictive, however not sure if this restriction is ok for this application, or it needs to have larger inlet and outlet ports.

Regardless, I think we need to go down this route, [I]inline[I] catch can. If things look promising, I am willing to get some of these custom made with the proper sizing to meet the flow rates, if people are interested. . Not sure yet what it will cost.

The inline design is stealthy and compact, and it fits perfect in the cramped location.

PR, this design is not ready yet for our application. Once we can confirm things are "ok", then I can recommend it.

[135i_vs_]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

What code is the "Insufficient Flow for Crankcase Ventilation" and how does the car check that?

I'd assume with insufficient flow, there will be an overtemp condition for the heater.

I am not sure if it is a good indication, as the heater only works I believe in certain temps.

[Puerto Rican 335d]

Im in if it can be done

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by 135i_vs_

I'd assume with insufficient flow, there will be an overtemp condition for the heater.

I am not sure if it is a good indication, as the heater only works I believe in certain temps.

Thanks for that. I have no feel for how/when/under what conditions that would be thrown. If anyone has seen this error, or tested what triggers it, I'd love to learn about it.

[2deerwhistlers]

Axel, I wouldent touch that with your d**k! Haha seriously tho, looks much too restrictive.. Pressure is restriction of flow.. What were looking for here is flow with no restriction which is zero pressure, once the crankcase flow is restricted the pressure finds it's way out of the weakest seal or you pop the oil cooler

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

-10F at my house again this morning. This time I fully covered all the openings on the front of the car (intercooler, both vents by the front wheels, as well as keeping the kidney grills covered). Big difference in the underhood temps. The can temp stabilized at ~43F, with the coldest temp observed being 42F. And the car actually got fully up to temp (185F) at mile 10, where as yesterday with just the kidney and passenger side openings covered it never got up to temp.

"High" today was 0F. Car sat outside all day at work in 0F or less temps. On the return drive the temp probe showed the catch can temp warmed up to the 40's again after ~4-5 minutes.

No issues observed with clogging/plugging/freezing in this fairly extreme stress test with the specific setup/configuration I'm using. Encouraged with the behavior and robustness so far. Just not sure the BMS catch can is actually doing all that much...

[135i_vs_]

Ended buying this Catch Can by ADD W1, its the smallest one I can find in the market. The reviews are good. Might be a possibility to install in that cramped area. Will install next week.

Internal baffle DUAL chamber filter Catch
9mm & 15mm Fitting / size 4.25" high x 2.25" diameter

[TDIwyse]

Am I seeing that picture correctly? The picture on that can seems to be showing the "output" as going thru the non baffled portion inside the container. That seems to be different than the BMS setup where the baffled portion is the "output".

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

"High" today was 0F. Car sat outside all day at work in 0F or less temps. On the return drive the temp probe showed the catch can temp warmed up to the 40's again after ~4-5 minutes.

No issues observed with clogging/plugging/freezing in this fairly extreme stress test with the specific setup/configuration I'm using. Encouraged with the behavior and robustness so far. Just not sure the BMS catch can is actually doing all that much...

Some updates.

Once the temps get above ~15-20F the amount of condensation in the temporary clear lines radically decreases. Been able to remove the insulation pipe wrap and with the recently warmer weather above 20F not seeing condensation, except for a little bit on the output line as it gets closer to the intake point.

Also checked the can to see if it was doing anything. So the attached is after I completely cleaned out the container after this check on 2-22-14: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=346

So this is what was collected in ~2 weeks and ~300 miles of back and forth to work driving in extremely cold weather (a lot of below 0F temps and rarely above single digits for highs).

Yikes.

[2deerwhistlers]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Am I seeing that picture correctly? The picture on that can seems to be showing the "output" as going thru the non baffled portion inside the container. That seems to be different than the BMS setup where the baffled portion is the "output".

That's how it looks from my house...tdiwyse, how much oil has your can caught now? Got any new pictures?

Tdiwyse we just posted at the same time so Ignore my question

[TDIwyse]

Originally Posted by 2deerwhistlers

tdiwyse, how much oil has your can caught now? Got any new pictures?

Our posts must've crossed in the internet somewhere :-)

[135i_vs_]

Originally Posted by TDIwyse

Am I seeing that picture correctly? The picture on that can seems to be showing the "output" as going thru the non baffled portion inside the container. That seems to be different than the BMS setup where the baffled portion is the "output".

That is correct, the oil droplets are supposed to stick to the baffled portion and drip to the bottom of the can, while the vapors go out the outlet.

I'm "baffled" why BMS would put it in the outlet side...don't see how that would help.


On a side note, looks like this 2010 Caddy made use of my original idea.