E90Post
 


Extreme Powerhouse
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Made the switch from Procede V5 to JB4 G5 ISO with dyno..



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-14-2012, 07:53 AM   #45
sickem
Freude am fahren
sickem's Avatar
71
Rep
1,968
Posts

Drives: E90 N54
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Doylestown, PA

iTrader: (4)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335idizzle View Post
Did you ever think of adding the flex fuel kit
That's still on the table...ive just been disappointed. FBO minus fmic on pump gas i only dynoed at 335 rwhp/355 lb-ft. Underwhelming. I'm having some issues with the car and they might be hardware-related. Taking to the dealer soon. After that's sorted I'll try the procede again, but if it's not performing well then I'll try the JB4 for a few weeks. Just seems like people are putting down really impressive numbers with auto tune maps and E85 on the JB4. Procede requires a lot of fussing it seems and I don't have the time/knowledge to be constantly messing with this thing.
__________________
Cobb E40 PROtune by Jake@PTF/RR catless DPs/aFe DCI/ETS 5" FMIC/ER CP/Forge DVs/Alpina B3 TCU flash/BMW Perf. Exhaust./BMW Performance Style 313s/M-Tech Rear
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 08:11 AM   #46
guru_method
Eating M3s for breakfast
guru_method's Avatar
No_Country
46
Rep
299
Posts

Drives: AW 09 135i M
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Dallas, TX

iTrader: (4)

Aside form that MASSIVE improvement in performance, how do you like the driveability and basically the overall feel of the car with the JB?
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 08:26 AM   #47
Mike@N54Tuning.com
Joint Chiefs of Staff
Canada
4901
Rep
115,955
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i, 2015 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: N54tuning.com

iTrader: (89)

Glad you're happy with the new tune

Mike
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 09:28 AM   #48
BmwECY
Banned
16
Rep
335
Posts

Drives: Bmw
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Earth

iTrader: (0)

vishnu procede was the bench mark for teh ISO jb4 gen 5. no surprises here. terry has better customer service. terry has recognized the value in a flash + piggy and works indirectly with cobb. congrats, OP. your power level increase is awesome.

shiv probably will never concede that a flash + piggy was the best option last year. not until the "procede flash" came out did people realize a piggy is limited to fueling ceilings. i, for one, will continue to use cobb and piggy combo's.

terry is primed to take over the piggy market. the only thing vishnu has going for them lately is the single turbo and the flex fuel kit. the procede flash helps out when you're at the limit of a piggy. cobb + jb4 is essentially a better option.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 10:31 AM   #49
bmw335idizzle
Private
7
Rep
71
Posts

Drives: bmw
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: las vegas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BmwECY View Post
vishnu procede was the bench mark for teh ISO jb4 gen 5. no surprises here. terry has better customer service. terry has recognized the value in a flash + piggy and works indirectly with cobb. congrats, OP. your power level increase is awesome.

shiv probably will never concede that a flash + piggy was the best option last year. not until the "procede flash" came out did people realize a piggy is limited to fueling ceilings. i, for one, will continue to use cobb and piggy combo's.

terry is primed to take over the piggy market. the only thing vishnu has going for them lately is the single turbo and the flex fuel kit. the procede flash helps out when you're at the limit of a piggy. cobb + jb4 is essentially a better option.
Question... I've been searching all over but I can't find it. People who run jb4 G5 and using ethanol mix likes to do the Cobb/bms reflash, where the heek to I find this?!?! Lol also is the Cobb flash with jb4 g5 iso just as good as Vishnu rev 3 with flex fuel kit and reflash?
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 10:37 AM   #50
bmw335idizzle
Private
7
Rep
71
Posts

Drives: bmw
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: las vegas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by slostjoe View Post
Ok, so I will not get into all the details as to why I switched other than a few very important factors, Customer Service....Terry has been nothing short of amazing in getting my car to the point at which it is now. Second of all I couldn't get my car to run correctly on the Procede and Vishnu kept blaming Injectors, Spark plus etc to why my car wasnt making power.

So here are the dyno runs- E92 335i 6mt

Procede V5 Rev 3, 93oct/e85, 50/50, 3" DP's DCI's and an FMIC the car made 385.11Whp and 412.43Wtq at 53* temps.

JB4 G5 ISO 93/e85 50/50 Mix, 3" DP's DCI's and an FMIC the car made a best of 441.59whp and 483.93wtq this was with the clutch slipping very badly. So the highest full pull I was able to make was 433.59whp and 474.93wtq this was 64* temps.

So I am very happy with this switch and the car is so much faster on the street! I have also added the BMS/Cobb backend flash, 100% E85 and NLS 2 Step it is amazing what this car feels like on a 30* night and full throttle shifting.

I just ordered a clutch and will be hitting the dyno once again. I tried scanning the dyno sheets and can't get them to upload correctly will try again when I get home.
Which map are you running on? Map 5 auto tune or map 7?
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 10:41 AM   #51
bmw335idizzle
Private
7
Rep
71
Posts

Drives: bmw
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: las vegas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sickem View Post
That's still on the table...ive just been disappointed. FBO minus fmic on pump gas i only dynoed at 335 rwhp/355 lb-ft. Underwhelming. I'm having some issues with the car and they might be hardware-related. Taking to the dealer soon. After that's sorted I'll try the procede again, but if it's not performing well then I'll try the JB4 for a few weeks. Just seems like people are putting down really impressive numbers with auto tune maps and E85 on the JB4. Procede requires a lot of fussing it seems and I don't have the time/knowledge to be constantly messing with this thing.
Yeah I'm the same way man, I don't the time to constantly messing with my car all the time. Like I want something that I can depend on that will make my car run safe but yet pull some good numbers... Flex fuel kit seems pretty safe and so does the jb4 g5 iso.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 10:48 AM   #52
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
Jeff@TopGearSolutions's Avatar
United_States
3441
Rep
79,212
Posts

Drives: C6 Z06, 09 335i, 10 335xi
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: www.TopGearSolutions.com

iTrader: (37)

Quote:
Originally Posted by slostjoe View Post
Yes this was on the same dyno. About the same boost on each I think the jb4 holds more to redline and peaks a little more. My car had/has no problems all I did was switch tunes....
I hope you realize the PRocede is more the capable of running the same boost as the JB4. The tune wasn't the difference in power, just the actual tuning of the tune. I could dig deeper here and there in if's and's or but's but it will just create chaos among the community.

Eitherway, as long as your happy it doesn't really matter what tune you use.

Enjoy

Last edited by Jeff@TopGearSolutions; 11-14-2012 at 10:55 AM..
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 10:54 AM   #53
slostjoe
NEWBICON
United_States
16
Rep
304
Posts

Drives: E92 335is
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Springfield, MO

iTrader: (6)

Ok, so I ran map 5 as that made the highest power numbers. I would however like to re dyno the car on map 7 now that I am on 100% e85 and I was not the day of the dyno.

I am very happy with the switch and to clarify I have been running the 50/50 mix on the jb4 for several months with no problems NONE.

I only bought the bms flash for the reasons I previously stated 100% e85 usage and Timing advance. As terry told me this flash may not be for everyone as its not cheap but I think it was well worth the money!
__________________
2013 Race Red GT500 708whp
www.cmsmotorsports.com
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 11:27 AM   #54
Mike@N54Tuning.com
Joint Chiefs of Staff
Canada
4901
Rep
115,955
Posts

Drives: 2007 335i, 2015 M3
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: N54tuning.com

iTrader: (89)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335idizzle View Post
Question... I've been searching all over but I can't find it. People who run jb4 G5 and using ethanol mix likes to do the Cobb/bms reflash, where the heek to I find this?!?! Lol also is the Cobb flash with jb4 g5 iso just as good as Vishnu rev 3 with flex fuel kit and reflash?
The difference is BMS doesn't use a "flex fuel" sensor. Which means you don't need to cut or work with fuel lines (introducing possible fuel leaks) to install it. From their perspective a flex fuel sensor is an unnecessary complication when you can use auto learning strategies (monitoring advance and fuel trims) to get the same basic information. The drawback with the BMS approach comes during extreme changes in ethanol content. Like if you accidentally put in 91 octane instead of 100% E85 AND forget to reset the auto learning (which takes 3 seconds in dash) you may pickup some engine knock the first time you stomp on it until the learning algorithm realizes the fuel has changed.

On the tuning end if using more than 40-50% E85 they suggest their flash along with the JB4. You load the BMS flash at home in your driveway. You do not need to remove and ship around your DME. When going in for warranty work you can also unload it from your driveway. When new maps and tricks are made you again can load them in your driveway without shipping things around and having down time with the car. Simple. Plus, the device they use for the BMS flash maps, the Cobb AP, has a killer resale value if you ever sell the car.

Mike
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 11:35 AM   #55
slostjoe
NEWBICON
United_States
16
Rep
304
Posts

Drives: E92 335is
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Springfield, MO

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com View Post
The difference is BMS doesn't use a "flex fuel" sensor. Which means you don't need to cut or work with fuel lines (introducing possible fuel leaks) to install it. From their perspective a flex fuel sensor is an unnecessary complication when you can use auto learning strategies (monitoring advance and fuel trims) to get the same basic information. The drawback with the BMS approach comes during extreme changes in ethanol content. Like if you accidentally put in 91 octane instead of 100% E85 AND forget to reset the auto learning (which takes 3 seconds in dash) you may pickup some engine knock the first time you stomp on it until the learning algorithm realizes the fuel has changed.

On the tuning end if using more than 40-50% E85 they suggest their flash along with the JB4. You load the BMS flash at home in your driveway. You do not need to remove and ship around your DME. When going in for warranty work you can also unload it from your driveway. When new maps and tricks are made you again can load them in your driveway without shipping things around and having down time with the car. Simple. Plus, the device they use for the BMS flash maps, the Cobb AP, has a killer resale value if you ever sell the car.

Mike
This is what sold me on the flash!
__________________
2013 Race Red GT500 708whp
www.cmsmotorsports.com
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 12:03 PM   #56
enrita
Major General
enrita's Avatar
Sweden
159
Rep
7,378
Posts

Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by slostjoe View Post
This is what sold me on the flash!
yeah its no brainer at all and if you have an issue you can always test both alone and see if its tuning related
__________________
07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD E85 BMS flash - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 12:22 PM   #57
ign335i
Second Lieutenant
10
Rep
286
Posts

Drives: 335i e92
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: CA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335idizzle View Post
Question... I've been searching all over but I can't find it. People who run jb4 G5 and using ethanol mix likes to do the Cobb/bms reflash, where the heek to I find this?!?! Lol also is the Cobb flash with jb4 g5 iso just as good as Vishnu rev 3 with flex fuel kit and reflash?
Two things to consider:

1. You do not need anything other than the JB4 G5 up to 50% mixes. The benefit past 50% is minimal performance wise (about 10hp more MAYBE) but it will allow you to use only one pump obviously.

2. The Cobb, if you decided to flash with BMS flash also, has significant resale value. Its not like you lose the money on the flash. Don't forget the Cobb is an entire tuning solution in itself which you can update with free downloads.

The main benefit left for the Proceed is the ability to go from 100% ethanol to 0% without resetting anything. The reality though is that this is one press of a button over the steering wheel controls. It really isn't a big deal and if you forget to do it, no your motor isn't going to explode. You will CEL and misfire though.

I see benefit to both and obviously the sensor serves a purpose and is closer to the correct/ideal solution. That being said, JB4 is putting down big numbers and has the added benefit of a Cobb and for 100% E85 use.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 12:50 PM   #58
Dmacc
Colonel
200
Rep
2,799
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 1M
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: So Cal

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by slostjoe View Post
Especially when you consider that my clutch was slipping on the jb4 dyno. I'm truly very happy and it was cheaper.
Just a question, but could it be possible you were hitting the 34% fuel trim limit on the procede 50/50 causing it almost to sound like a lean misfire? This was happening to me before I got the procede flash, I thought it was a misfire, but in reality I was just running out of fuel. Not sure if this is your case or not, but I just wanted to ask to see if that might have been a possibility.

Regardless nice numbers! get that new clutch I'm going to need a new one too, 100% e85 is too much fun!
__________________

thanks to MGallop
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 12:52 PM   #59
bmw335idizzle
Private
7
Rep
71
Posts

Drives: bmw
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: las vegas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ign335i View Post
Two things to consider:

1. You do not need anything other than the JB4 G5 up to 50% mixes. The benefit past 50% is minimal performance wise (about 10hp more MAYBE) but it will allow you to use only one pump obviously.

2. The Cobb, if you decided to flash with BMS flash also, has significant resale value. Its not like you lose the money on the flash. Don't forget the Cobb is an entire tuning solution in itself which you can update with free downloads.

The main benefit left for the Proceed is the ability to go from 100% ethanol to 0% without resetting anything. The reality though is that this is one press of a button over the steering wheel controls. It really isn't a big deal and if you forget to do it, no your motor isn't going to explode. You will CEL and misfire though.

I see benefit to both and obviously the sensor serves a purpose and is closer to the correct/ideal solution. That being said, JB4 is putting down big numbers and has the added benefit of a Cobb and for 100% E85 use.
So if I'm running 50/50 ethanol:91, I don't really need the Cobb flash? Only if I'm running more than 50% ethanol? Also, you're saying every time I refuel, I should reset back to map 5 so it will relearn my ethanol:gas mixture? U do that by just going back to map mode and choose map 5 right.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 01:03 PM   #60
Dmacc
Colonel
200
Rep
2,799
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 1M
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: So Cal

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335idizzle View Post
So if I'm running 50/50 ethanol:91, I don't really need the Cobb flash? Only if I'm running more than 50% ethanol? Also, you're saying every time I refuel, I should reset back to map 5 so it will relearn my ethanol:gas mixture? U do that by just going back to map mode and choose map 5 right.
You need to log your fuel trims to see where they are at, I would do that before considering going with the cobb flash, if you plan on running higher than 50% mixtures, then you will need the cobb flash for that extra fuel
__________________

thanks to MGallop
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 01:05 PM   #61
enrita
Major General
enrita's Avatar
Sweden
159
Rep
7,378
Posts

Drives: 335i - Big turbos
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Italian in Sweden

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmacc View Post
You need to log your fuel trims to see where they are at, I would do that before considering going with the cobb flash, if you plan on running higher than 50% mixtures, then you will need the cobb flash for that extra fuel
and probably an upgraded LPFP.
This is with E50 , see after 6k just leans out, lpfp pressure drops like 20 psi and trims shoot up to max, around 450 whp i think:
__________________
07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD E85 BMS flash - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 01:16 PM   #62
Gossypiboma
Major
541
Rep
1,195
Posts

Drives: 13' M3 6MT 18' M3 CS
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: The John

iTrader: (8)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmacc View Post
You need to log your fuel trims to see where they are at, I would do that before considering going with the cobb flash, if you plan on running higher than 50% mixtures, then you will need the cobb flash for that extra fuel

Exactly, you would need to log first. I was maxing fuel trims at 30% E85 with the JB4.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 01:37 PM   #63
ign335i
Second Lieutenant
10
Rep
286
Posts

Drives: 335i e92
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: CA

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw335idizzle View Post
So if I'm running 50/50 ethanol:91, I don't really need the Cobb flash? Only if I'm running more than 50% ethanol? Also, you're saying every time I refuel, I should reset back to map 5 so it will relearn my ethanol:gas mixture? U do that by just going back to map mode and choose map 5 right.
You only reset when you go from ethanol blend to no ethanol. If you are always refilling with ethanol and gas then you don't need to reset. So 90% of the time (if the E85 is close) you don't need to reset. The reset is accomplished over steering wheel controls and takes less than 5 seconds.

You may have a car that only runs 30% ethanol, but if that's the case then there really isn't much difference between proceed and jb4. Either one will then require you to buy something else like Cobb or flexfuel kit. I suspect you can run up to 50% though since most people can. You only need about 40% mix fyi to get full timing at ~18psi safety limit.

Whichever you choose though, I advise you start with just the tune. Then you can opt for Cobb or flexfuel if needed. Don't expect the gains to be anything near the 0-50% level when you go from 50-100% though. The bulk of the performance benefit is realize on tune only.
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 01:59 PM   #64
slostjoe
NEWBICON
United_States
16
Rep
304
Posts

Drives: E92 335is
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Springfield, MO

iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by guru_method
Aside form that MASSIVE improvement in performance, how do you like the driveability and basically the overall feel of the car with the JB?
I love everything about it especially the drivability going to the jb4. I even love the smell lol
__________________
2013 Race Red GT500 708whp
www.cmsmotorsports.com
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 02:44 PM   #65
Dmacc
Colonel
200
Rep
2,799
Posts

Drives: 2011 BMW 1M
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: So Cal

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by slostjoe
Quote:
Originally Posted by guru_method
Aside form that MASSIVE improvement in performance, how do you like the driveability and basically the overall feel of the car with the JB?
I love everything about it especially the drivability going to the jb4. I even love the smell lol
+1 there's something about that smell that makes me want to start my car with my garage door closed just to get a whiff lol!
__________________

thanks to MGallop
Appreciate 0
      11-14-2012, 03:38 PM   #66
MileHi335xi
Fast=Good - Quick=Better
United_States
6
Rep
31
Posts

Drives: 2010 335Xi
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Colorado

iTrader: (0)

OP, have you made any fuel system mods/upgrades? How are your cold starts on 100% E85?
__________________
2010 e92 AT
2007 e90 AT
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:52 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST