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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Water Pump....*&^% the bed



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      02-07-2013, 04:01 PM   #23
bender rodriguez
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Any aftermarket waterpumps?
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      02-07-2013, 04:02 PM   #24
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N52 has the same water pump issue, and the pump is also very expensive. The car may or may not throw shadow codes about low flow, but it will generally fail without warning.
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      02-07-2013, 04:14 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drex335iLov View Post
Well just got the confirmation that the water pump on my 335i died as I suspected based on everyone's contribution to this fantastic forum.

$1,300+ to fix that and that doesn't even include a new thermostat (which I always assumed you should change if your water pump dies).

They also were FINALLY able to read codes from my car and confirm that SZL sensor (steering angle sensor) had died as well. They kept arguing with me that it was the ABS booster. Another $700 fix.

My car is just a little over 4 years old and just over 45k. I should not be having these issues with such low millage.

I filed a complaint with BMW North America this morning citing numerous issues with the SZL sensor people have been experiencing on this and other forum. Also citing the DIY fix and the hydrocarbons on the laser disk (Again thanks to the users of this forum). A very dangerous thing with the SZL sensor is that the lights at night can get stuck to the left or right depending on when the car can no longer decipher the position of the steering wheel. This happened to my wife with the kid in the car on a foggy night. The system should default the lights to dead ahead if communication with the SZL sensor is interrupted.

Looks like I'm buying an extended warranty for this car as the electrical issues are beginning to pile up and I'm a bit frustrated. Yes you need to pay to play, but with such low mileage, frequent oil changes (I'm anal like that), service my car on factory dates and time, I should not be experiencing these issues. Not at 45k. I should not be experiencing deterioration due to time verses common wear and tear. The wife is in my ass right now, because of a $2k fix after just doing the brakes and rotors myself for less than $600 thanks to ECSTuning.com (we are both light/moderate hard drivers, Atlanta has crazy fast bad drivers here). Looks like the money I saved on the brake job is lost on electrical time stamped failure points. I hope to hell between BMW North America, Nally BMW and myself we can come to some sort of agreement where we all walk away happy. I'll agree to pay a fair portion, but not $2k for these design issues.

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Frustrated 1st Time BMW Owner/Lover
First step to removing the water pump: remove the thermostat.

It is mounted directly to the waterpump, the only added cost to replacing the thermostat is the thermostat itself, shouldn't be more than $115 and thats a little on the higher end. Also, unless the shop is charging $120 an hour, that seems a bit high for just the water pump. In my experience the re-manufactured water pumps or newer pumps seem to hold up better than the originals, but only time will tell.
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      02-07-2013, 04:17 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingclue View Post
Pretty sure the N52 also has this issue. I could be wrong though.
Common on 325i/330i/335i and much rarer on 328i.

Stupid idea to put electronic directly on this very hot pump.
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      02-07-2013, 06:11 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Ritz View Post
It just fails. You can't prevent it
That's not what I meant to ask. I mean, when it fails, how will I know? Will the car refuse to start? Will the engine overheat? Check engine light?
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      02-07-2013, 07:17 PM   #28
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Go indy shop!! Did my thermostat + water pump for $1200
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      02-07-2013, 07:36 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Njprince0226 View Post
Go indy shop!! Did my thermostat + water pump for $1200
Yeah thats the avarage price I ve heard, how many miles did you have when your WP broke?
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      02-07-2013, 07:48 PM   #30
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45K on this failure, but 4 years of driving in Atlanta heat with AC raging and 250-260 oil temps. I'm pretty sure that the pump takes one helluva beating even after you shut the car off it will run for a bit to cool the engine.


Here is what happens:
Car will display a message indicating (Amber Message) your engine is overheating and throw you into limp mode. Next if temps continue to rise you will lose ALL forward power. A (Red Message) is display that your car is overheating and you will not be able to go forward at all(but you can drive in reverse). The radiator fans will also be in FULL RAGE MODE!! If you shut the car down and restart the car you will hear the fan noise begin to increase so high that you'd think the car is about to take off.
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      02-07-2013, 07:55 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Ritz View Post
It just fails. You can't prevent it
Actually in my case the water pump had been generating shadow errors up to 10k miles earlier to the catastrophic failure that dumped me on the turnpike..the dealer never informed me and i hadn't been routinely scanning it with my BT tool like I do now..


IMHO opinion those shadow errors related to water pump should not be so...methinks they hide it so as to get the car past 50k..but this puts the client in a predicament should the pump fail in a tough spot..
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      02-07-2013, 07:59 PM   #32
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This system should have a backup pump that will keep you alive in limp mode so you're not stranded in the middle of nowhere. Germans forget how big our country is and you can really end up with one wicked tow bill.
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      02-07-2013, 09:24 PM   #33
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First of all electric water pumps are an excellent idea.
Why?
Because when you are sitting in Atlanta traffic moving at a brisk 5 mph in the summer air on the coolant on a mechanically driven pump isn't circulating fast enough. The electric can and does move the coolant and helps to keep it cooler with fewer spikes. Same thing when cold the thermostat and water pump don't move much coolant allowing the engine and heater core to warm up fast.

This is the future and very likely other manufacturers will follow suit.

BMW water pumps in the 3 series since 1992 (6 cylinder engines) have had mechanical failures and right at the time/ mileage ours do. They started with metal, then phenolic, then metal again and now again phenolic impellers. This is something the Germans have done a poor job of sourcing.

The electric pumps I have seen have failed for a couple of reasons. One is electrical, anyone here drive in salt conditions? Just take a look at one in that part of the country and see the wiring is exposed to the elements even with the pan in place. The other is the phenolic housing which suffers cracks most likely from thermal cycles and just flat out fails.

The idea is excellent the supplier of the pumps, typcially Continental isn't building the most robust pump out there. However BMW accepted this and can get away with this pump since most of the time you are past warranty when the failure happens. Pump from getbmwparts is around 411 bucks plus shipping and the thermostat is 91 bucks plus shipping. Also Continental has upgraded the pump for the 335 can't say if that is so for the 328.

I wish they would improve the life of this unit by potting the electronics and making the housing out of material that doesn't suffer thermal cycle failure. I would pay more for a pump that was basically going to last the life of the car. A Stewart electric equivalent.

I carry a new water pump in its box in the trunk of my E93 for this very special occasion. I am not aware of any remanufactured water pump suppliers out there but I can't see saving much money since the new pump seems much better.

One of our members lost his pump around 50K miles and the newer pump has taken him to well over 180K miles. He posted his repairs months ago and he drives a heavily modded car.

BMW does seem to have fallen down on the initial qualification of the HPFP, electric water pump, some fuel injectors. All have been improved but are still not at the reliability of your typical Asian auto manufacturers...
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      02-07-2013, 09:27 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drex335iLov View Post
45K on this failure, but 4 years of driving in Atlanta heat with AC raging and 250-260 oil temps. I'm pretty sure that the pump takes one helluva beating even after you shut the car off it will run for a bit to cool the engine.
This. I predict those of us in cold country see FAR longer lifespans out of these than those down South. Turbo heat is also why they have a shorter lifespan on the turbo cars. And if you get on it - OP mentioned full-throttle runs up to 130mph you are creating one heck of a lot of heat, both from the hot turbo(s) heating the air underhood, and the coolant being heated by the turbo - they are liquid cooled. The pump is getting baked both inside and outside. It is still a poor engineering job, but it is understandable.

I have every intention of replacing mine pre-emptively, probably at ~80K miles.
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      02-07-2013, 09:27 PM   #35
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Quote:
First of all electric water pumps are an excellent idea.
Why?
Because when you are sitting in Atlanta traffic moving at a brisk 5 mph in the summer air on the coolant on a mechanically driven pump isn't circulating fast enough. The electric can and does move the coolant and helps to keep it cooler with fewer spikes. Same thing when cold the thermostat and water pump don't move much coolant allowing the engine and heater core to warm up fast.

This is the future and very likely other manufacturers will follow suit.
They haven't followed for 8 years.
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      02-08-2013, 11:32 AM   #36
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They are still waiting to hear back from BMW NA and the complaint I filed with them over the lack of safety in these systems.

The car should not just dump you on the highway possibly in the middle of nowhere. Or in a very dangerous situation (rush hour traffic). Critical systems should have backups, be it in a reduced power mode or something....anything. If someone where to come up with a backup water pump in event of main water pump failure I bet they'd make a mint.

The headlights locking in one direction due to the SZL sensor is blaitent disregard for the safety of a occupants of the vehicle. If the SZL sensor dies the headlights should default to "dead ahead".
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      02-08-2013, 05:31 PM   #37
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It took other auto makers around 10 years to adapt a BMW developed variable valve timing system so I don't expect other manufacturers to follow suit immediately. Where do you get 8 years from?

Also any water pump failure does the same thing be it mechanical or electric water pump. Tell me what auto out there doesn't do this when a pump fails?

The pump is not the best piece of reliability out there but this is not a new situation if you have driven 3 series BMWs for any length of time.
E36-E46-E90's have all done this as have the corresponding other BMW series using the same engines. E36 mechanical-E46 mechanical-E90 electrical. All fail withing 50-80K miles typically...

Doubt me?
Go visit the E36 or E46 forum and put in failed water pump.

This is one of the things that we put up with to drive the car and had I known this was going to be the case I would have still purchased the car. Thus the reason for the new water pump I carry.

I am not sure if I will buy another BMW in the future. I am seeing too many innovations that add complexity for limited benefit such as battery registration, reprogramming a car for almost any system replacement be it a headlight housing to an electric lock module...
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      02-08-2013, 06:46 PM   #38
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Just out of curiosity, does Mike Miller recommend early water pump replacement as part of his super-maintenance routine?
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      02-08-2013, 09:47 PM   #39
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If this is a such wide spread problem on bmw's end...would a class action lawsuit fit the bill in regards to fixing the issue at bmw's expense?

Kind of like the subframe failure for the e46 m3.

The more and more I try and convince myself to keep my car and pay it off because she's such a great fit for me, the more I think I might be better off selling it and forcing myself into something else.

When you love something, set it free...wait what?
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