[Technic]

Originally Posted by dmurray14

That's tough to say, but a good question. I could probably get a hold of my FSC for the CCC, not sure whether it would work on the CIC though. Seems as though it would be different.

One thing is for sure: the FSC for the CCC is to enable Voice Control, the FSC for the CIC is to enable Voice Control and Navigation.

FYI: car cannot even be coded with the CIC installed at the dealer. It aborts at the get go. Which is a good news/bad news situation: ISTA/P does not push any coding to any module and give a listing of what happened (good), but it cannot code the CIC for a car that the VIN number says that it should not have it (bad).

Back to square one.

[Booster4075]

I pretty much assumed that our cars would never be able to be programmed via SSS or ISTA/P again with the CIC installed...I ran into the same part number rejection thing when I put an incorrect region CCC in my car during my retrofit - SSS rejected the part number for my car (even though the CCC said on its own sticker it was for the U.S. and came out of an appropriate year E90.) This will probably always be a problem (and a big one I think for down-the-road diagnosis of other issues and for programming updates for all modules in the car.) I bet there is a way to bypass this through smart operators of the ISTA/P (certainly not taught to them by BMW!) It would be good to know if Autologic just overlooks this part number issue altogether so we could still get updates to our cars without having to swap-in a CCC for reprogramming/diagnosis issues. Technic - did it kick the part number for the new CID & controller as well, or just the CIC?

In the back of my mind (although I need to probably experiment?) - I'm thinking there isn't more than one FSC per VIN. In the pre-2009 cars, the FSC merely unlocked the voice control option and had the VIN encoded (among other things) in the XML file. Its probable that 2009+ FSC files are completely different, but I bet they aren't. Its probable that they just "enable" for a certain VIN. We already know they don't really have any software in them, they are just a secure file for telling SSS or ISTA/P that the VIN is "authorized" to have the function enabled. On first-gen i-drive cars, this was voice control only. On the newer cars, its that along with enabling Nav. Weird. I'd sure like to get my hands on a used CIC / CID setup to experiment. I bet its possible that a CIC can be coded to another VIN as well (they used to say used CCC's couldn't be installed in another car back in the day...)

[dmurray14]

Originally Posted by Booster4075

I pretty much assumed that our cars would never be able to be programmed via SSS or ISTA/P again with the CIC installed...I ran into the same part number rejection thing when I put an incorrect region CCC in my car during my retrofit - SSS rejected the part number for my car (even though the CCC said on its own sticker it was for the U.S. and came out of an appropriate year E90.) This will probably always be a problem (and a big one I think for down-the-road diagnosis of other issues and for programming updates for all modules in the car.) I bet there is a way to bypass this through smart operators of the ISTA/P (certainly not taught to them by BMW!) It would be good to know if Autologic just overlooks this part number issue altogether so we could still get updates to our cars without having to swap-in a CCC for reprogramming/diagnosis issues. Technic - did it kick the part number for the new CID & controller as well, or just the CIC?

In the back of my mind (although I need to probably experiment?) - I'm thinking there isn't more than one FSC per VIN. In the pre-2009 cars, the FSC merely unlocked the voice control option and had the VIN encoded (among other things) in the XML file. Its probable that 2009+ FSC files are completely different, but I bet they aren't. Its probable that they just "enable" for a certain VIN. We already know they don't really have any software in them, they are just a secure file for telling SSS or ISTA/P that the VIN is "authorized" to have the function enabled. On first-gen i-drive cars, this was voice control only. On the newer cars, its that along with enabling Nav. Weird. I'd sure like to get my hands on a used CIC / CID setup to experiment. I bet its possible that a CIC can be coded to another VIN as well (they used to say used CCC's couldn't be installed in another car back in the day...)

Hmm, if that's the case, I definitely need to get my hands on a CIC. I have access to my FSC.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Booster4075

I pretty much assumed that our cars would never be able to be programmed via SSS or ISTA/P again with the CIC installed...I ran into the same part number rejection thing when I put an incorrect region CCC in my car during my retrofit - SSS rejected the part number for my car (even though the CCC said on its own sticker it was for the U.S. and came out of an appropriate year E90.) This will probably always be a problem (and a big one I think for down-the-road diagnosis of other issues and for programming updates for all modules in the car.) I bet there is a way to bypass this through smart operators of the ISTA/P (certainly not taught to them by BMW!) It would be good to know if Autologic just overlooks this part number issue altogether so we could still get updates to our cars without having to swap-in a CCC for reprogramming/diagnosis issues. Technic - did it kick the part number for the new CID & controller as well, or just the CIC?

It was rejected for all the parts (CIC/HD CID/new controller) incorrectly installed for my VIN and for all the parts (CCC/CID/old controller) missing frrm my VIN.

At least I learned that there is a intermediate step before any intent of coding, so the dealer has in fact ways of knowing if a coding will work or not before any actual coding process. This was the major risk that even an Autologic shop told me that they were afraid to even try.

But the fact is that there is no risk at all if the operator knows what he/she's doing.

In the back of my mind (although I need to probably experiment?) - I'm thinking there isn't more than one FSC per VIN. In the pre-2009 cars, the FSC merely unlocked the voice control option and had the VIN encoded (among other things) in the XML file. Its probable that 2009+ FSC files are completely different, but I bet they aren't. Its probable that they just "enable" for a certain VIN. We already know they don't really have any software in them, they are just a secure file for telling SSS or ISTA/P that the VIN is "authorized" to have the function enabled. On first-gen i-drive cars, this was voice control only. On the newer cars, its that along with enabling Nav. Weird. I'd sure like to get my hands on a used CIC / CID setup to experiment. I bet its possible that a CIC can be coded to another VIN as well (they used to say used CCC's couldn't be installed in another car back in the day...)

They are in fact different, in size, in format and even with a time limit/expiration date, according to the shop foreman I asked. We finally submitted the order of the three P/N for the FSC codes with my VIN yesterday to see if goes thru that way. We tried directly thru their system to no avail, so now it is supposed to go to a person first, approved or not, and then be placed in the system for later retrieval/download if they are approved. These codes expire in 24 hours once they are downloaded.

Definitely these FSC codes can be used in an used CIC, but if I cannot get them for a brand new/dealer bought CIC definitely you will not get them from BMW for an used system at all. That's out of the question, at least for the time being or at least until somebody starts custom creating and then selling them underground.

[Technic]

Good news... I got the FSC enabling codes for my VIN.
Bad news... the CIC needs to be coded to my M3 before the FSC codes can be loaded.

Back to square one.

[Booster4075]

Can you just code the CIC to your car using NCS Expert and load the FSC by the USB port? Did I read something about this in the past?

Also - did I gather from other posts that the LCI climate control head now has the seat heater switches integrated into it? Does this mean that those with seat heaters need a new climate control head to retrofit since the front bezel for the CIC no longer holds those switches? I'm a little confused since I haven't looked at an LCI up close lately..

[TheUltimateDrivingManiac]

Originally Posted by Booster4075

Also - did I gather from other posts that the LCI climate control head now has the seat heater switches integrated into it? Does this mean that those with seat heaters need a new climate control head to retrofit since the front bezel for the CIC no longer holds those switches? I'm a little confused since I haven't looked at an LCI up close lately..

Yes, they moved seat heating switches to climate control unit, but only since MY2010. So I don't think this is a problem.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Booster4075

Can you just code the CIC to your car using NCS Expert and load the FSC by the USB port? Did I read something about this in the past?

I will know sometime this week if this swap is feasible or not with the dealer tools. But so far, the requirement is for the car to recognize the CIC and then ISTA/P would be able to load the FSC. Therefore, no CIC coding, no FSC loading.

At least I finally found a more than willing dealer and shop foreman that wants to help and more importantly, knows how to help and knows who to ask for help "upstairs" when he does not know.

What's interesting is a note in the FSC OEM document:

Enable Code Certificate for Navigation Map Data

For Navigation Map Enable codes in the downloaded ZIP file is a PDF document available. The PDF contained the 20-digit Enable code. The printed document is for manually input of the Enable code by programming system or input by iDrive controller (e.g. Map Update by customer).

The printed PDF document is always hand over to the customer.

I did not receive that pdf file with my FSC.

Also - did I gather from other posts that the LCI climate control head now has the seat heater switches integrated into it? Does this mean that those with seat heaters need a new climate control head to retrofit since the front bezel for the CIC no longer holds those switches? I'm a little confused since I haven't looked at an LCI up close lately..

Those switches are simply moved from the single row switchboard unit under the CCC/CIC to the ACC unit in MY2010. That should not be a concern for any other MY as this board is independent from the iDrive.

[dmurray14]

Keep us updated! Very interested in how this turns out.

[Patrys@BimmerTech]

Originally Posted by Booster4075

Can you just code the CIC to your car using NCS Expert and load the FSC by the USB port? Did I read something about this in the past?

Also - did I gather from other posts that the LCI climate control head now has the seat heater switches integrated into it? Does this mean that those with seat heaters need a new climate control head to retrofit since the front bezel for the CIC no longer holds those switches? I'm a little confused since I haven't looked at an LCI up close lately..

Yeah, I exchanged a few emails with Technic on this and I also said that NCS could do the job.
I have been using all this BMW software for a while (NCS, SSS, Winkfp, etc.) and I can say that SSS is really idiot proof but on the other hand it's not flexible in any way and you have to follow the procedures that BMW guys created, e.g. if there is no latest software in all ECUs it will not allow you to perform any actions until you do the update which could take several hours.

That's why it doesn't surprise me that SSS does not want to code the CIC that was not originally installed in your car.
Let me tell you another example. I retrofitted the CCC in my car using NCS and Winkfp a few months ago . Everything was fine, but I decided to play with SSS. When I started it the error message was shown that my CCC unit part number was not correct and SSS would not code or program it until I installed a new unit with the correct part number.
I had to change the part number in my CCC unit in order to be able to use SSS with my car.
Since then SSS has been recognizing my CCC as it was factory installed.

[TheUltimateDrivingManiac]

Originally Posted by Patrys

I had to change the part number in my CCC unit in order to be able to use SSS with my car.

Can you share how you have done this please? I am going to do the same with my dashboard soon...

[Patrys@BimmerTech]

Originally Posted by TheUltimateDrivingManiac

Can you share how you have done this please? I am going to do the same with my dashboard soon...

Tool32 from Ediabas will do the job. Unfortunately I can't guide you step by step because I have not used it for months...

[TheUltimateDrivingManiac]

Originally Posted by Patrys

Tool32 from Ediabas will do the job. Unfortunately I can't guide you step by step because I have not used it for months...

Thanks! At least now I know that it's possible and which tool to use

[dmurray14]

Originally Posted by Patrys

Yeah, I exchanged a few emails with Technic on this and I also said that NCS could do the job.
I have been using all this BMW software for a while (NCS, SSS, Winkfp, etc.) and I can say that SSS is really idiot proof but on the other hand it's not flexible in any way and you have to follow the procedures that BMW guys created, e.g. if there is no latest software in all ECUs it will not allow you to perform any actions until you do the update which could take several hours.

That's why it doesn't surprise me that SSS does not want to code the CIC that was not originally installed in your car.
Let me tell you another example. I retrofitted the CCC in my car using NCS and Winkfp a few months ago . Everything was fine, but I decided to play with SSS. When I started it the error message was shown that my CCC unit part number was not correct and SSS would not code or program it until I installed a new unit with the correct part number.
I had to change the part number in my CCC unit in order to be able to use SSS with my car.
Since then SSS has been recognizing my CCC as it was factory installed.

Same thing I said to him as well. I also said he has the option of coding the CIC on the bench manually to line up with the options on his car - that way he wouldn't have to worry about any of the other things (changing part no/ etc). Although the software versions may not line up.

[Booster4075]

Am I assuming that unless BMW issues a real retrofit kit (with an associated "retrofit" path for the SSS/ ISTA/P), there will be no getting rid of our 1st-gen i-drive in case we need the car programmed/diagnosed by factory equipment in the future.

I can just see my DME exploding on the side of the road one day, having it towed in, and them tell me I need the 1st-gen i-drive parts to even diagnose it. Unlikely for diagnosing I suppose, but a very real probability for re-programming (not coding tho...we know we can do that) of the new DME.

This retrofit (at this stage) is not looking promising for older (<2009/non-LCI) cars that did not come with 2nd-gen idrive, for the average person that wants to retrofit. I believe we can still do it, howeve,r we will need to be up to date with our resources/equipment and knowledge.

[Fluffy bastard]

Originally Posted by Patrys

Yeah, I exchanged a few emails with Technic on this and I also said that NCS could do the job.

I'll dissapoint you The NCS Expert couldn't do this job. You need the new generation software for developers and engineers which uses inside BMW AG - E-Sys tool. If you have this software and you know how it works, you're one of the happiest people in the Earth

[Patrys@BimmerTech]

Originally Posted by Fluffy bastard

I'll dissapoint you The NCS Expert couldn't do this job. You need the new generation software for developers and engineers which uses inside BMW AG - E-Sys tool. If you have this software and you know how it works, you're one of the happiest people in the Earth

I haven't tried NCS with a CIC unit, but I thought it would be able to do some simple coding of a CIC like it could do with other ECUs in the car.
I didn't say that NCS could bypass the FSC codes in a CIC.

Why NCS does not work with a CIC ?

[Fluffy bastard]

Btw, I told about navi activation

[Patrys@BimmerTech]

Originally Posted by Fluffy bastard

Btw, I told about navi activation

Yeah, we just misunderstood each other

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Fluffy bastard

I'll dissapoint you The NCS Expert couldn't do this job. You need the new generation software for developers and engineers which uses inside BMW AG - E-Sys tool. If you have this software and you know how it works, you're one of the happiest people in the Earth

Thanks... my dealer mentioned some tools that the BMW regional rep has in his laptop that will be able to do this swap. I guess that it should be that tool that you are referring to (I thought that it was NCS Expert).

[Fluffy bastard]

Originally Posted by Technic

Thanks... my dealer mentioned some tools that the BMW regional rep has in his laptop that will be able to do this swap. I guess that it should be that tool that you are referring to (I thought that it was NCS Expert).

And his tools require internet-connection?))) It's a remote control, no more

[Technic]

Originally Posted by Fluffy bastard

And his tools require internet-connection?))) It's a remote control, no more

I guess that he will have the latest tools as he is the BMW Factory representative of the region. So whatever he could not have available he will get somehow from BMW AG.

I will know how this goes or not soon enough.