N54 Carbon Build Up at 65k miles

Murph335 · 11-30-2011, 04:45 PM

07 e90 335i under maint/warr till 9/2013 or 100k mi. Owned since 46k mi.
Best run a couple weeks back was 13.0 @109mph. MPH was consistent all night. New Tire or DR coming soon.

I brought the car in for service due to the car telling me. Turned out to be some roadworthy service that doesnt apply to arizona. worthless visit.

While I was there I mentioned the exhaust flapper rattle, needed washer fluid, and rough idle.

They discovered

A leaky washer pump replaced under warr= $50 ded.
Would not replace exhaust system due to my modified exhaust (downpipes), but agreed to disable it (like a golf tee mod).
Extensive carbon build up in the intake valves = $850 - 15% coupon.

Car runs like a champ, and i noticed that boost comes on more smooth than before almost seamless. Interested to go back to the track for more mph now vs. before.

After doing some research on DI engines. Since air and fuel arent mixed in the intake manifold nothing passes by to clean the back side of the valves.

Syndicategt · 11-30-2011, 04:51 PM

Good work. What did they clean it with? My SA told me they (BMW) were getting walnut shell blasters. I'd pay for that! And FYI....this is a common problem with our (or any DI) car.

raceyBMW · 11-30-2011, 05:49 PM

Most BMW dealers use walnut blasting to clean if they go the full removal of the intake manifold route.

vase330 · 11-30-2011, 05:56 PM

Wow! Do they take the head off to do that? If they don't, where does all that crud go? Hopefully not into the cylinders.

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 11-30-2011, 05:58 PM

Wow $850!

lpphreakx06 · 11-30-2011, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Wow $850!

Don't forget about the 15% off, seems worth it since it looks like a lot of work.

ttbmer · 11-30-2011, 06:16 PM

Too much! Good price 400 and up to 500 I think is ok. But anyways is the stealership so that's to be expected

hemi to e90 · 11-30-2011, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttbmer

Too much! Good price 400 and up to 500 I think is ok. But anyways is the stealership so that's to be expected

have you been quoted by an independent shop at 400-500?

ttbmer · 11-30-2011, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hemi to e90

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttbmer

Too much! Good price 400 and up to 500 I think is ok. But anyways is the stealership so that's to be expected

have you been quoted by an independent shop at 400-500?

Yes 400 got it done 2 weeks ago

MilehighM3 · 11-30-2011, 10:06 PM

Install can't get it that clean I bet...

Boony · 11-30-2011, 11:55 PM

This definitely sparks my interest, I bought a lease-return at 46k too and its at 52k now. The car seems smooth, but I think it could be smoother, this seems worth it, might get this done soon too.
How much smoother is it really, I wouldn't think it would make such a huge difference?

OG Ryder · 12-01-2011, 12:05 AM

What are people doing to prevent this? Can you hook up to a vac port on IM and feed it some induction cleaner just like they (shops) do on other cars?

Joshboody · 12-01-2011, 12:37 AM

before pic really doesn't look that bad. What are your mods OP? Back to track would be a good test.

bigdaddycane · 12-01-2011, 07:28 AM

Matt at Cambertoe (NY) does it in the $500 range

C4sF80M3 · 12-01-2011, 07:57 AM

Seriously? A 6ft vacuum line, a bottle of spray throttle body cleaner, and about 30 minutes of spray time while the car is running and you foot on the throttle... about $10 bucks. Keep mind that most of the build up can easily be removed by TB cleaner, but you can't just spray into the engine without it running. Otherwise it will flood the engine and the removed contaminants won't be burned off. Plus with the engine at part throttle, you'll effectively increase the force of the spray further helping with the cleaning process.

I guess I need to do a before and after shot for everyone. The annoying part is that typically I wouldn't need to remove the intake. In this case I would have to remove it twice just to show the effectiveness.

Bash · 12-01-2011, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c4s335i

Seriously? A 6ft vacuum line, a bottle of spray throttle body cleaner, and about 30 minutes of spray time while the car is running and you foot on the throttle... about $10 bucks. Keep mind that most of the build up can easily be removed by TB cleaner, but you can't just spray into the engine without it running. Otherwise it will flood the engine and the removed contaminants won't be burned off. Plus with the engine at part throttle, you'll effectively increase the force of the spray further helping with the cleaning process.

I guess I need to do a before and after shot for everyone. The annoying part is that typically I wouldn't need to remove the intake. In this case I would have to remove it twice just to show the effectiveness.

subscribed, need to check how effective that method really is

MDORPHN · 12-01-2011, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c4s335i

Seriously? A 6ft vacuum line, a bottle of spray throttle body cleaner, and about 30 minutes of spray time while the car is running and you foot on the throttle... about $10 bucks. Keep mind that most of the build up can easily be removed by TB cleaner, but you can't just spray into the engine without it running. Otherwise it will flood the engine and the removed contaminants won't be burned off. Plus with the engine at part throttle, you'll effectively increase the force of the spray further helping with the cleaning process.

I guess I need to do a before and after shot for everyone. The annoying part is that typically I wouldn't need to remove the intake. In this case I would have to remove it twice just to show the effectiveness.

Good luck with that!

Guess you haven't been following the long saga of intake valve build-up --and efforts to address it -- on direct injection Porches, VWs, Audi and BMWs.

Neil

Pseudo Nim · 12-01-2011, 08:47 AM

What about Seafoam? I'm scared to try it because it says "use on fuel injected vehicles, boats, ATVs, pressure washers and your house to clean it" but the Mini community @ Northamericanmotorsports.com is quite happily injecting it into their Minis...... with good results, it would appear.

secretsquirrel · 12-01-2011, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim

...but the Mini community @ Northamericanmotorsports.com is quite happily injecting it into their Minis...... with good results, it would appear.

Have you seen any before and after shots or are people just swearing by it with no proof?

JoosyJoos · 12-01-2011, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pseudo Nim

What about Seafoam? I'm scared to try it because it says "use on fuel injected vehicles, boats, ATVs, pressure washers and your house to clean it" but the Mini community @ Northamericanmotorsports.com is quite happily injecting it into their Minis...... with good results, it would appear.

Seafoam isn't strong enough to remove the "caked" carbon build-up... nor do I think any liquid cleaner is. You pretty much just have to remove the intake manifold, set the valves to top dead center, dump in cleaner to dissolve the deposits and then take a strong wire brush to the area. It's time intensive but not overly difficult. Push the car while in gear to slowly move the valves into the correct alignment.

Pseudo Nim · 12-01-2011, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

Have you seen any before and after shots or are people just swearing by it with no proof?

I think there's been a decent amount of testing by a number of people which makes me trust what they say. Let me go dig up the threads though ... to be sure.

Pseudo Nim · 12-01-2011, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoosyJoos

Seafoam isn't strong enough to remove the "caked" carbon build-up... nor do I think any liquid cleaner is. You pretty much just have to remove the intake manifold, set the valves to top dead center, dump in cleaner to dissolve the deposits and then take a strong wire brush to the area. It's time intensive but not overly difficult. Push the car while in gear to slowly move the valves into the correct alignment.

I see. Would it have been more logical, then, to do a yearly Seafoam so that it doesn't GET to the "caked" build-up?

Incidentally - do dealers ever clean it under warranty or is this not a warrantiable item?

11-30-2011, 04:45 PM	#1
Murph335 Major 141 Rep 1,423 Posts Drives: '07 N54 e90, '10 N54 e93, TBSS Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Gilbert, AZ iTrader: (12) Garage List 2015 Tesla P85D [0.00]	N54 Carbon Build Up at 65k miles - Before/After Pics 07 e90 335i under maint/warr till 9/2013 or 100k mi. Owned since 46k mi. Best run a couple weeks back was 13.0 @109mph. MPH was consistent all night. New Tire or DR coming soon. I brought the car in for service due to the car telling me. Turned out to be some roadworthy service that doesnt apply to arizona. worthless visit. While I was there I mentioned the exhaust flapper rattle, needed washer fluid, and rough idle. They discovered A leaky washer pump replaced under warr= $50 ded. Would not replace exhaust system due to my modified exhaust (downpipes), but agreed to disable it (like a golf tee mod). Extensive carbon build up in the intake valves = $850 - 15% coupon. Car runs like a champ, and i noticed that boost comes on more smooth than before almost seamless. Interested to go back to the track for more mph now vs. before. After doing some research on DI engines. Since air and fuel arent mixed in the intake manifold nothing passes by to clean the back side of the valves. Attached Images __________________ E90 - H&R Touring - M3 Front Arms - Work Genosis GS-1 19x9+30 x10+26 225f 265r stretch - AA FMIC - AR DP - Cobb E30 Map +160rwhp/+200rwtq E93 - Style 95 - RB Turbo - AR DP - Evolution RW FMIC - PTF E50 +242rwhp/+234rwtq
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11-30-2011, 04:51 PM	#2
Syndicategt Brigadier General 153 Rep 3,730 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Nor Cal iTrader: (11)	Good work. What did they clean it with? My SA told me they (BMW) were getting walnut shell blasters. I'd pay for that! And FYI....this is a common problem with our (or any DI) car. __________________ 2008 BMW 335i e90 - Sold - Rob Beck Turbos / PROcede V5 / Aquamist HFS-4 / AR Downpipes / AE Exhaust / ER Comp FMIC / ER CP / TiAL BOV / Custom Intake / RPI Scoops / Quaife LSD / Swift-Koni Coilovers / DSS HS / Morr VS8.2 Sig Black / Michelin PSS / P3 Boost Guage / M3 body / M3 steering wheel / Adam's Rotors / Hawk HPS / SS lines /
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11-30-2011, 05:49 PM	#3
raceyBMW king of the hills 92 Rep 2,915 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 w/ESS55, 2001 540i/6 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Arvada, CO iTrader: (1) Garage List 2001 BMW 540i/6 [8.17] 1994 530i [9.00] 2007 335i Coupe [8.37]	Most BMW dealers use walnut blasting to clean if they go the full removal of the intake manifold route.
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11-30-2011, 05:56 PM	#4
vase330 Colonel 102 Rep 2,760 Posts Drives: 19 E63S; 15.5 RangeRover ATB Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Arlington, Va iTrader: (1)	Wow! Do they take the head off to do that? If they don't, where does all that crud go? Hopefully not into the cylinders. __________________ E92 335 \| Space Gray \| Saddle Brown Dakota \| Dark Burl Trim \| ZPP \| ZSP \| AT \| Idrive \| 6FL \| FBO \| Dinan CAI \| Quaife LSD \| STG3 PROCede.
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11-30-2011, 05:58 PM	#5
Jeff@TopGearSolutions 3441 Rep 79,211 Posts Drives: C6 Z06, 09 335i, 10 335xi Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: www.TopGearSolutions.com iTrader: (37)	Wow $850!
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11-30-2011, 06:16 PM	#7
ttbmer Lieutenant Colonel 68 Rep 1,943 Posts Drives: space gray on black 07 335i Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: las Vegas nv iTrader: (15)	Too much! Good price 400 and up to 500 I think is ok. But anyways is the stealership so that's to be expected __________________ PROCEDE, PWM Vishnu Kit, AR catless DP, BMS DCI, Helix IC, P3 gauge, 25% window tint, mattblack window trim, mattblack roof wrapped. Vorstainer CSL trunk, CF wrapped interior, 18'' Forgestar F14 Matt black, quaife LSD, M3 suspension bits, Mtech front bumper). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8JIB8C8HDA
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11-30-2011, 10:06 PM	#10
MilehighM3 Brigadier General 915 Rep 3,456 Posts Drives: Harrop E90 M3 Join Date: May 2011 Location: Colorado Springs iTrader: (14) Garage List 2009 E90 M3 [6.50]	Install can't get it that clean I bet...
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11-30-2011, 11:55 PM	#11
Boony Lemonhead 38 Rep 109 Posts Drives: 07' E90 335i Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: New York, NY iTrader: (2) Garage List 2007 BMW 335i [9.67]	This definitely sparks my interest, I bought a lease-return at 46k too and its at 52k now. The car seems smooth, but I think it could be smoother, this seems worth it, might get this done soon too. How much smoother is it really, I wouldn't think it would make such a huge difference? __________________ FBO-007-N54-JB4-MHD-WTF-BBQ
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12-01-2011, 12:05 AM	#12
OG Ryder Private 2 Rep 83 Posts Drives: e92 335i Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: San Diego iTrader: (0)	What are people doing to prevent this? Can you hook up to a vac port on IM and feed it some induction cleaner just like they (shops) do on other cars?
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12-01-2011, 12:37 AM	#13
Joshboody Lieutenant Colonel 65 Rep 1,708 Posts Drives: pickemuptruck Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ iTrader: (7)	before pic really doesn't look that bad. What are your mods OP? Back to track would be a good test.
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12-01-2011, 07:28 AM	#14
bigdaddycane I even mod my cereal 245 Rep 3,441 Posts Drives: 11 ZCP DCT M3 14 328d 21 GT4 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Northern Va iTrader: (53) Garage List 2021 Porsche GT4 [0.00] 2014 BMW 328d Xdriv ... [0.00] 2011 BMW M3 [0.00]	Matt at Cambertoe (NY) does it in the $500 range __________________ 2011 Mineral White M3 ZCP - Opticoat, Ventureshield, some CF, B&B exhaust, AFE Intake Vorsteiner VFF 101s Ohlins 2014 Mineral White 328d Xdrive Wagon - Opticoat, Ventureshield, B8s, H&R, Apex SM-10s Hawk Pads 2021 718 Cayman GT4 - Fire extinguiser
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12-01-2011, 07:57 AM	#15
C4sF80M3 First Lieutenant 23 Rep 303 Posts Drives: 17 F80 M3 ZCP Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Raleigh, NC iTrader: (0)	Seriously? A 6ft vacuum line, a bottle of spray throttle body cleaner, and about 30 minutes of spray time while the car is running and you foot on the throttle... about $10 bucks. Keep mind that most of the build up can easily be removed by TB cleaner, but you can't just spray into the engine without it running. Otherwise it will flood the engine and the removed contaminants won't be burned off. Plus with the engine at part throttle, you'll effectively increase the force of the spray further helping with the cleaning process. I guess I need to do a before and after shot for everyone. The annoying part is that typically I wouldn't need to remove the intake. In this case I would have to remove it twice just to show the effectiveness.
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12-01-2011, 08:47 AM	#18
Pseudo Nim twinborific 118 Rep 4,836 Posts Drives: fast, sometimes slow Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: i am a citizen of the world iTrader: (9)	What about Seafoam? I'm scared to try it because it says "use on fuel injected vehicles, boats, ATVs, pressure washers and your house to clean it" but the Mini community @ Northamericanmotorsports.com is quite happily injecting it into their Minis...... with good results, it would appear. __________________ Doko ni itemo, hito wa tsunagatte iru...
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