[Needbmwpartzz]

I like new cars better than old cars but a car with a character you know is best

[Boz335i]

This same debate is going on over in the M3/M4 forums.

I drove the M4 on a track day and I do prefer the seats and overall interior of the F series to my 2012 E92 M3. I'm not a big fan of the LCD 'pop-up looking screen' on the dash, I think they look a bit aftermarket opposed to the E9x.

The new electronic steering is a real let down, but I guess they are all going that way to save of emissions.

The headlights make the E9x headlights look a bit old.

The M4 feels lighter, but is a lot more difficult to get around a track than mine. I would say you need to be a more advanced driver to get the most out of the M4.

[mob17]

New electronic steering a definite negative for me. Makes a huge difference.

I wonder if someone could retrofit hydraulic steering? I'm assuming a few parts and coding would be required.

[simenjo]

E90

[gIzzE]

They are being made to a budget though, they are going backwards.

My E46 M3 was £47,840 list. That was in 2001.

The E92 M3 in the same spec. in 2012 was £55,300.

The F82 M4 in the same spec. in 2015 is £59,550.

We bought our second house in 2001 and paid £220,000, and that has just sold again for £400k. And this is at a time when house prices have not meant to have moved much, not like they did in the 90's anyway.

I found a receipt the other day in a jacket that was 2001, and it was fuel at 79p litre.

Nearly everything has gone up massively in price, but not cars, well not the mid range cars like 3 and 5 series, or C and E Classes etc. You can pay £40,000 for a Golf and £45 for an AMG A Class, but you want a 5 series or an E Class, you can get one of those for just over £30k and they come with dab, nav, leather, led lights, internet blah blah blah.
In 1994 we bought our first house, a small terrace in the right part of the city, every where else in Norwich they we between £21-25k, where we bought the same 2 up 2 down was £38-45k. We haggled for a week and paid £36k for this. The day we got the keys my old man collected his new E Class, I remember laughing as he paid around £200 more for that than our house!
Those houses now sell for around £180k, you can buy an E Class with more toys for less money now, some 20 odd years later.

There has to be cost cutting, and as much as some of the main parts have improved, the cabins feel a bit low rent currently. But would anyone pay £180k for an E Class or 5 Series? Of course not.

[JJ0063]

I owned an LCI E90 for a year, at the same time as having an F30 company car.

F30 is better in every way. Nicer cabin, I had the 177BHP E90 and the company was a 184BHP but felt much quicker, nice power delivery too.

Now have an F30 325D M sport in white as a company car, amazing. Great autobox, over 200BHP, pleasure to drive.

I'd buy an F30 tomorrow if I had the cash, but for now just having one as a company car is enough

[AWSAWS]

Newer car has to have better tech and you'd expect it to have taken on lessons learned from the E9x.
If they've scrimped on costs then the E9x may be better mechanically. I don't know.

All I do know is the E9x is better because I own one.

[djgandy]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

They are being made to a budget though, they are going backwards.

My E46 M3 was £47,840 list. That was in 2001.

The E92 M3 in the same spec. in 2012 was £55,300.

The F82 M4 in the same spec. in 2015 is £59,550.

We bought our second house in 2001 and paid £220,000, and that has just sold again for £400k. And this is at a time when house prices have not meant to have moved much, not like they did in the 90's anyway.

I found a receipt the other day in a jacket that was 2001, and it was fuel at 79p litre.

Nearly everything has gone up massively in price, but not cars, well not the mid range cars like 3 and 5 series, or C and E Classes etc. You can pay £40,000 for a Golf and £45 for an AMG A Class, but you want a 5 series or an E Class, you can get one of those for just over £30k and they come with dab, nav, leather, led lights, internet blah blah blah.
In 1994 we bought our first house, a small terrace in the right part of the city, every where else in Norwich they we between £21-25k, where we bought the same 2 up 2 down was £38-45k. We haggled for a week and paid £36k for this. The day we got the keys my old man collected his new E Class, I remember laughing as he paid around £200 more for that than our house!
Those houses now sell for around £180k, you can buy an E Class with more toys for less money now, some 20 odd years later.

There has to be cost cutting, and as much as some of the main parts have improved, the cabins feel a bit low rent currently. But would anyone pay £180k for an E Class or 5 Series? Of course not.

This is a pretty flawed argument argument. House prices are in a massive bubble thanks to cheap money. Put interest rates back to 5% (BOE) and see how many M3's you can buy with a house then. Peoples wages have not risen anywhere near as fast as house prices. Relative to average wage

[The0pportunist]

Everytime i see F30 i notice the rear indicators are not LED. I understand they probably want to have led indicators on the facelift but i still think its cheeky and for this reason & this reason only, i would pick e90 over f30.

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by djgandy

This is a pretty flawed argument argument. House prices are in a massive bubble thanks to cheap money. Put interest rates back to 5% (BOE) and see how many M3's you can buy with a house then. Peoples wages have not risen anywhere near as fast as house prices. Relative to average wage

This is true. House prices are largely governed by over demand and restrictive building regulations. Plus the fact everyone believes houses are a sound investment for the rental income alone. Car's aren't'. Tech used in cars also becomes cheaper as what was once high tech becomes common place and manufacturing around the world improves etc.

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by djgandy

This is a pretty flawed argument argument. House prices are in a massive bubble thanks to cheap money. Put interest rates back to 5% (BOE) and see how many M3's you can buy with a house then. Peoples wages have not risen anywhere near as fast as house prices. Relative to average wage

Of course house prices have risen massively, they always do, but car prices have not increased in line with salary.

And E Class has gone up around 10-20%, wages have gone up around 60% in the same period, 1994 was £15500, 2015 is £24500.

Just look at the build of a 1994 Mercedes E Class compared with the current one, it makes the current one feel like a Hasbro product. Sure the thing is more dynamic, has far more funky kit on it, but there is no way they could build the switchgear and interior materials to the same standard they did back then as the price would be far too high.

Same with the F30 vs the E46, I would take the F30 every time, but the E46 still feels more solid imho and holds up well for what is now a 17 year old model.

I'm not saying they are not good cars, but they couldn't carry on being an exclusive brand, times have changed and they need to play the numbers game, and you can only do that by hitting certain price points.

[djgandy]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

Of course house prices have risen massively, they always do, but car prices have not increased in line with salary.

And E Class has gone up around 10-20%, wages have gone up around 60% in the same period, 1994 was £15500, 2015 is £24500.

Just look at the build of a 1994 Mercedes E Class compared with the current one, it makes the current one feel like a Hasbro product. Sure the thing is more dynamic, has far more funky kit on it, but there is no way they could build the switchgear and interior materials to the same standard they did back then as the price would be far too high.

Same with the F30 vs the E46, I would take the F30 every time, but the E46 still feels more solid imho and holds up well for what is now a 17 year old model.

I'm not saying they are not good cars, but they couldn't carry on being an exclusive brand, times have changed and they need to play the numbers game, and you can only do that by hitting certain price points.

I'm not sure that the price of an E class has only gone up by 20% since 1994. I expect they were around £22k back then. The market of the E class and the way it is engineered as changed too. Cars are better now, they share many more components.

Clunky physical buttons do not a good interior make. IMO cars have not moved on enough in this sense. Mercedes interiors would confuse me into thinking I am flying a plane! The amount of buttons is just ludicrous.

[Sky_Blue]

I owned an e91 325d M Sport for 5 years, followed by a F31 320d Sport for 2 years. In my view the F31 is more refined.

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by djgandy

I'm not sure that the price of an E class has only gone up by 20% since 1994. I expect they were around 22k back then. The market of the E class and the way it is engineered as changed too. Cars are better now, they share many more components.

Clunky physical buttons do not a good interior make. IMO cars have not moved on enough in this sense. Mercedes interiors would confuse me into thinking I am flying a plane! The amount of buttons is just ludicrous.

Merc and audi has same concept.
Add as many buttons as you can to show that its 'premium car'.
It confuses drivers. Would you be looking at buttons when driving as which one to press?

Beamer shines here. 7 buttons on controller and you remember them easily!

[makkan00]

F3x vs E9x

F3x or F1x any day exception is
- steering wheels
- suspension

Both are on softer side and bit artificial.

[mob17]

Originally Posted by makkan00

F3x vs E9x

F3x or F1x any day exception is
- steering wheels
- suspension

Both are on softer side and bit artificial.

Makkan if you can find out how to retrofit hydraulic steering on the F series then i'm sure that would interest a lot of people!

[stewey]

I have a f30 loaner at the moment and I'm not super impressed. It is a 320 mind you. Does the interior get better as you move up the model range? It seems to have more hard plastic bits than my e90. I also find the engine sounds, well, shitty. I had a Hyundai Elantra a few weeks ago and it sounds about the same. I owned a four cylinder bmw before (m42) and it didn't sound like this.

[Dann]

I had a F30 320d SE hire car a while back.

It was a lovely comfy motorway cruiser and I liked the interior, it is very fresh and modern. I was surprised by how fast it was for a derv too.

For me I wouldn't mind which I had as they are both superb cars. I agree that the F30 screen looks stuck on but it's alright.

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by stewey

I have a f30 loaner at the moment and I'm not super impressed. It is a 320 mind you. Does the interior get better as you move up the model range? It seems to have more hard plastic bits than my e90. I also find the engine sounds, well, shitty. I had a Hyundai Elantra a few weeks ago and it sounds about the same. I owned a four cylinder bmw before (m42) and it didn't sound like this.

Some of the base models in the range, can feel a lot cheaper than the higher end models. We bought an SE X1 and that felt really cheap as the steering wheel was not nice leather nor the gear lever, swapped for a leather M-Sport wheel and lever and suddenly the car felt better.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

Some of the base models in the range, can feel a lot cheaper than the higher end models. We bought an SE X1 and that felt really cheap as the steering wheel was not nice leather nor the gear lever, swapped for a leather M-Sport wheel and lever and suddenly the car felt better.

Agree, something many of us have commented on for years, applying across the model ranges.

As to the F3x vs. E9x, same applies to the E9x range. I remember testing E90 models and a base 320i is nothing like a full leather 330d/335i.

From my perspective the F3x range is a march forward on the E9x models.

HighlandPete

[djgandy]

I had an F30 320d auto for a few days this week. It's a nice car for driving in and very economical. I actually liked it, but I drive it so differently to mine. The auto makes it much easier to stay light on the throttle and always be in the right gear. It had some nice toys too, the newer iDrive is great. Interior wise I think its pretty good, better than an Audi, but I think I prefer the E9x layout.

Overall I really nice motorway cruiser, but when I picked up my e92....