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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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ECS brake rotors for BMW: MADE IN …CHINA !!!
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12-06-2012, 01:28 PM | #45 |
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OP, I think you made your point plenty clear now. I think it's probably a good time to end this discussion already as ECS has also given you a response (albeit not the most ideal, but acceptable in this sense).
Unfortunately, most companies would not cover shipping for returns in this kind of situation (trust me, I've experienced this kind of frustration myself plenty of times before). Hopefully, whatever you decide to get next time (if there's a next time) or if you decide to use the current rotors you have (albeit they're made in China), things will turn out well for you. Maybe, you can see if you can sell these rotors locally to someone else if they think it's a good deal in light where it's made. That's more work, but at least you'll be able to recuperate some of your losses. |
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12-06-2012, 01:32 PM | #46 | |
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12-06-2012, 01:45 PM | #47 |
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I don't get it. Why is the fact the rotors were made in China so bad?
If the company the rotors came from is reputable and makes a consistently good product, thats all that matters. Whats China have to do with it if the company makes them the same way regardless of being in China vs. Germany? |
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12-06-2012, 02:01 PM | #48 | |
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12-06-2012, 02:07 PM | #49 | |
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You can't compare after market QC of a small company X to BMW QC. Simply put, the price reflects that. BMW's budget is in billions. You gotta pay to play!! Did you maybe expect Brembo for 1/5 the price? If you don't want to spend the dough for high quality performance then don't complain! I work in aerospace engineering and know exactly what you mean. The issue is you did not pay for 5* product and you can't expect to get one. Cosmetics (visual appeal) IS NOT more important than quality and performance. GL Last edited by Mavus; 12-06-2012 at 02:14 PM.. |
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12-06-2012, 02:18 PM | #50 |
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Finally somebody does not fear to say impolite things. Especially taking into account the fact that we are in a bmw forum, and I can immagine that one of the reasons for the owners to buy their Exx is QUALITY
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12-06-2012, 02:20 PM | #51 |
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12-06-2012, 04:02 PM | #52 |
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How about the Zimmerman made rotors sold as OEM equipment from BMW?
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12-06-2012, 04:14 PM | #53 |
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12-06-2012, 04:21 PM | #54 |
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12-06-2012, 04:32 PM | #55 | |
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how do you check that the correct alloy has been used X-ray defraction, SEMs how do you ensure that correct forming has been performed in the Chinese/Taiwanese/wherever foundry PCS, tolerances, SEMs how do you verify that the proper heat treatment has been applied in the Chinese/Taiwanese/wherever plantHardness check how do you check that blanks have been handled properly PCS That said, how can ECS prove this ? The only way is to audit the company which I can guarantee they do not. ECS is a distributor so one needs to ask these questions in advance, or just assume they are made cheaply due to the sale price. FYI....Germany is well know for quality, but in China there are many companies that are not. Yes, the iPhone and iPads are assembled in China.
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12-06-2012, 04:50 PM | #56 | |
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The reason I bought EBC dash-slotted rotors was because they are made in the UK, from high-quality metal and with good quality control and certifications, from a brake specialist company that's been around for many years with a reputation to protect. They also have drilled/slotted rotors available. I've seen alloy wheels made in China with a fake certification stamp (post #5 in this thread): http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=370330 and I too would be concerned about getting brakes from a no-name Chinese source, your life can depend on your brakes. Last edited by AlanAZ; 12-06-2012 at 05:07 PM.. |
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12-06-2012, 05:02 PM | #57 |
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This is not related to ECS in any way. My client sent me this awhile back for your viewing pleasure. I guess safety is not an issue either
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12-06-2012, 05:06 PM | #58 | |
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And it is not by chance that he has a relevant background in the industry processes |
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12-06-2012, 05:09 PM | #59 |
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12-06-2012, 06:44 PM | #60 |
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You get what you pay for. On things as important as brakes and tires, why buy cheap?
Nothing wrong with a good deal on proven items, but what do you expect for the price?
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12-07-2012, 04:22 AM | #61 | |
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I should simply have asked in advance. All this is to help people not to repeat my error. I'm not saying in any way that the rotors in question are crap or do not fit any application |
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12-07-2012, 10:12 AM | #62 |
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We will attempt to answer your pointed questions as clearly as possible. Rest assured that we at ECS are passionate about what we do and we take pride in our products and great responsibility in how they are designed, manufactured, quality inspected, and tested. These are rotors that we are proud to run on our own cars, including but not limited to an Audi R8 and BMW E90 M3.
How do you check that the correct alloy has been used? We subject products from our suppliers to not only dimensional quality inspection, but also material analysis. First production samples are submitted to a materials testing lab to verify that the material meets specifications. In this case, we are working with suppliers that we have a long standing manufacturing partnership with and can assure you they are made of the high quality materials we have specified.
How do you ensure that correct forming has been performed in the Chinese/Taiwanese/wherever foundry?
How do you verify that the proper heat treatment has been applied in the Chinese/Taiwanese/wherever plant?
To answer a few relevant questions you didn't ask:
We are confident these rotors will perform well. Any further information regarding the development and design of these rotors is deemed proprietary and confidential. No further questions will be answered. |
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12-07-2012, 10:32 AM | #63 |
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Sometimes people underestimate products because of their origin, when in fact the country on origin doesnt have alot to do with the quality itself rather then the cheap labor they can get from the workers.
Sometimes it depends on the amount of products they develop as well, this may be a weird analogy but it may shed some light on some people...a place like zaxbys that ONLY focuses on making chicken makes better quality chicken then you would find at a place like Mcdonalds or BK where they make Burgers, fish(nasty), chicken etc etc etc. Ive come to find a few small companies that develop and focus on only one time and make pretty decent quality products and fairly priced. And last but not least let it be no surprise that alot of these companies that say they develop their products in the US do it in countries like China and Taiwan where the labor is dirt cheap and they get away paying less as a business, then claim that their product is made in the US with US standards. Not too long ago i made a similar post on a 350Z forum regarding the quality of DDM tuning HIDS which sold for about $70 $80 dollars per kit, and not only were they made with the same quality as the ones that go for $30 on ebay but some of them came mailed directly from china and with the same labels as if they bought them on ebay and just had them shipped to you. Pretty shitty i might add but lets face it, to them we are a business..i dont think anyone in particular cares about our safety and the functionality of our cars unless someone gets killed because of it and they catch a lawsuit. SAD BUT TRUE.. on a different note, HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE!! |
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12-07-2012, 10:49 AM | #64 | |
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12-07-2012, 11:25 AM | #65 |
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Finally ECS did the homework…
It took more than 6500 views and 300 replies (and counting) from users all around the world to have substantial questions related to quality and process control answered. Why this harsh, sometimes boring pin-pall was needed, remains a mystery to me, especially considering that many other manufacturers have this information readily and easily available in the description of similar products. Just as example, have a look to this from PFC – Performance Friction: “ALL parts are proudly made in the USA” Reference: http://www.performancefriction.com/about-us/faqs.aspx “Performance Friction Corporation, 83 Carbon Metallic Highway, Clover, SC 29710, USA fulfills the requirements of the following ISO Technical Specification: ISO/TS 16949 : 2009” “Performance Friction Corporation, 83 Carbon Metallic Highway, Clover, SC 29710, USA fulfills the requirements of the following ISO Technical Specification: ISO 14001 : 2004” Reference: http://www.performancefriction.com/p...on-brakes.aspx As I admitted several times, my error remains: not having asked in advance, and having assumed that ECS does the same as others do: making this product in the USA. But you know, once the confidence is lost, it is lost. That’s it. I can only hope that ECS would include the infos in his web pages, side by side with a clear statement about the origin of the products. To discover this opening the box and hearing “we would have told you if you only had asked” is not a serious approach. Thanks to ECS and to who has (positively) contributed to the discussion. Following ECS, I will not keep the thread alive. |
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12-07-2012, 11:45 AM | #66 | |
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