[BaseM3]

Originally Posted by mels335i

Thanks, My car is a 9/2007 build date. I plan going with the 14mm bar. Do I need to also order the rubber bushings for the 14mm bar or can I used the ones that came with the "old' kit?

Again, I found the answer to my bushing question, The #14 is listed in the bushing for the rear and 26.5 for the front.

[cvc 22349a]

Originally Posted by Dustin328i

cvc 22349a, thanks for the feedback about the kit versions. I think you probably could answer that question better than anyone at BMW headquarters, NA.

I didn't buy the kit from Tischer, so it's even more of a mystery, haha. I bought it from a Euro-parts wholesaler for a price I couldn't pass up . Now, I realize I would have paid more, given the responsiveness.

You don't have pics of both bumpstops available, do you? I'm curious to know if i'm running the shorter or longer...

Not yet. It's taking forever for me to get the 'new' E90 PS front bumpstops from Germany. As soon as I get 'em, I'll post a pic of them along w/the 'old' E90 PS bstops and zsp bstops in 'jwong77's bumpstop thread. I ordered them almost a month ago
I don't remember what springs you want to use but if they don't come with bstops in a kit, check out jwong's or luckyu's solution. I really wouldn't trim bstops or even buy a product from someone who recommends you do so.

[cvc 22349a]

Originally Posted by Evan@Tischer

Who has made a mess of it?? The 'mess' and confusion comes from forum threads typically....especially when guys don't go by exactly what BMW recommends for the required parts...or when guys put together custom kits w/ aftermarket parts.

The original kit was to be used with zsp springs and sways; the new kit is to be used w/ the yellow bmw performance springs, and includes its own front sway.

Also vehicles produced prior to 6/2006 were recommended to upgrade to the newer guide supports.

We can now order the front bumpstops from the newer kit - 31336789540, $15.18 ea

The 14mm rear sway is 33556764426.

Let us know if you have any additional questions.

I would say forum members and you have by selling the old PS kit to forum members and then selling them the yellow PS springs. No wonder guys complained of not being able to leave anything laying around in the cabin w/o launching them when hitting bumps.

You can now get the front PS bumpstops seperate from the kit thanks to yours truely and Dan@UnitedBMW

[cvc 22349a]

Originally Posted by mels335i

Thanks, My car is a 9/2007 build date. I plan going with the 14mm bar. Do I need to also order the rubber bushings for the 14mm bar or can I used the ones that came with the "old' kit?

I got the 14mm rear bar from Tischer. You do need new bushings for that bar and retain your oe brackets. IMHO, it's not going to be worth the labor 5-7 hrs unless you're dropping the subframe to replace those bushings

[AlanAZ]

14 is listed in the bushing for the rear and 26.5 for the front

Correct. I used the 14 mm bushing that came with the old Performance Suspension kit with the new 14 mm bar, and the 26.5 mm was the same bushing as my sport pkg front bushing, which I went ahead and put in @75K mls, why not, they were there.

[Evan@Tischer]

I would say forum members and you have by selling the old PS kit to forum members and then selling them the yellow PS springs. No wonder guys complained of not being able to leave anything laying around in the cabin w/o launching them when hitting bumps.

Gotta 1/2 disagree - we always stated upfront that the yellow PS springs were specific to the new kit, and that retrofitting them to the old kit was completely at the risk of the customer, and not recommended by BMW. The old kit was to be used w/ the zsp springs per BMW, the new kit was paired w/ the yellow springs...period.

We are happy to sell it anyway the customer requests though - and are happy to report back their findings...but we've always stood by the correct way to do these retrofits per BMW. The only mess that comes of these things is when rumors or assumptions are formed and spread around.....typically on the forums. Thanks.

[Mud8541]

It seems like there are quite a few people in this thread with solid experience in suspension mods...so I thought I'd post here...


I just picked up a 2011 335d two weeks ago and I'm not all that tickled with the ZSP. I've seen several references to C&D or similar reviews raving about the ZSP. And I'm sure the numbers don't lie. But it seems my '04 545 felt more "planted" and my '01 330 certainly did. Like for sure, dude. There's a nice cambered on ramp right down the street from my house...90% of sweeping turn...and my A/B test is a 80mph run through that. '01 330i...planted. '04 545i, planted. 2011 335d...certainly not letting go...but not feeling too confident. Leans too much, a little floaty, and the bumps/grooves in the pavement (very mild ones) feel like they're playing a little too rough with the steering. All in all it adds up to that 3 millisecond oh-sh*t-did-I-just-f**k-up feeling. And then you're on the straight and everything is ok. But it shouldn't feel like that, IMO.

A little disclaimer...I assumed a lease...the car has 15k miles on it. It appears to be pristine inside and out. No sign of abuse whatsoever. But is it possible shocks/bstops/etc are worn out somehow? Maybe from driving on rough roads? Car came from Santa Monica/Topanga Canyon area. Tires are in excellent condition. Bridgestone Potenza RFTs (don't know anything about them...took RFTs off my 5 cuz they were so harsh).

My gut tells me BMW softened things up to offset RFTs and managed to diminish that it's-impossible-to-take-this-corner-too-hard feeling I used to have.

That said, I've been slowly upping the ante in the occasional unoccupied corner around town and haven't even managed to make the tires squeal. So perhaps this is a "feeling" thing rather than a "physics" thing.

I'm thinking about the BMW Performance Suspension Kit (remember it's a lease). I need to stay within the realm of OEM-ish-ness. Any shared experience, advice, comments, criticism (constructive or otherwise) is/are much appreciated.

[cssnms]

Originally Posted by Evan@Tischer

Gotta 1/2 disagree - we always stated upfront that the yellow PS springs were specific to the new kit,

Yup!

[DaanBMW]

Originally Posted by Mud8541

I just picked up a 2011 335d two weeks ago and I'm not all that tickled with the ZSP. I've seen several references to C&D or similar reviews raving about the ZSP. And I'm sure the numbers don't lie. But it seems my '04 545 felt more "planted" and my '01 330 certainly did. Like for sure, dude. There's a nice cambered on ramp right down the street from my house...90% of sweeping turn...and my A/B test is a 80mph run through that. '01 330i...planted. '04 545i, planted. 2011 335d...certainly not letting go...but not feeling too confident. Leans too much, a little floaty, and the bumps/grooves in the pavement (very mild ones) feel like they're playing a little too rough with the steering. All in all it adds up to that 3 millisecond oh-sh*t-did-I-just-f**k-up feeling. And then you're on the straight and everything is ok. But it shouldn't feel like that, IMO.

[snip]

My gut tells me BMW softened things up to offset RFTs and managed to diminish that it's-impossible-to-take-this-corner-too-hard feeling I used to have.

That said, I've been slowly upping the ante in the occasional unoccupied corner around town and haven't even managed to make the tires squeal. So perhaps this is a "feeling" thing rather than a "physics" thing.

While I did not own an e46, I've test driven several & never got that oh-sh*t-I might-lose-it feeling. They felt solid, planted. But test drives are by definition a limited experience. So while I liked the drive & the looks of the e46 coupe, I did like the newer e92's better. So I spoke to a good friend which drives a '04 e46 coupe and asked him how he views the e92 vs. his e46 (he got 92's from the dealer when having work done on his car). He said he thinks they hold up pretty well against his e46. That sealed the deal for me.

However, I have come to a similar conclusion to you: you totally described the feeling I get driving my e92 (rwd, so zsp is std). I can push it but get quickly a feeling I might be sliding and losing control. Gets worse when you hit joints in the road, as you question yourself if you'll regain traction or slide out. It is not a comfortable feeling. Happens on both my summer performance non-RFT's 18's and my "winter" all-season RFT 17's. Which why I hit the boards and plan to upgrade a bunch of stuff on my susp (see my sig).

I would have a suggestion to you since you have these cars avail, and most of this stuff is in reality seat of the pants driving: try to measure the times of these comparable drives on the 3 cars. It might be the car feels less planted because if does more and you do not feel it until it's close. The newer e9x's are more silent so it might be that the limits are less audible so more surprising (I'm guessing here).

[Mud8541]

Originally Posted by DaanBMW

...in queue: M3 front & rear sway bars + control arms, M3 rear subframe bushings / BMW Perf: springs + v1 dampers

Man, the options seem to be endless. By "v1 dampers" are you referring to parts from the "old" performance kit (v2 ostensibly referring to the new kit)?

Any posts you read that led you to this configuration would be helpful if you have links.

Also, do you (or does anybody else, for that matter) have any guidance on what is/isn't kosher on lease vehicles? The obvious solution is to keep all original parts and put them all back at lease end (just eat the labor). But I figured if I went with the BMW perf kit, nobody...meaning at BMW...would complain if I turned the car in that way. Of course, if I get the car dialed in the way I like it I'll be reluctant to turn it in at all and probably go for the buy out. But a lot can change in 3 years. They might have 335d's with a DCT. Or even a flux capacitor.

Anyway, it's good to know I'm not the only one who feels a bit uncomfortable with this suspension.

[DaanBMW]

Originally Posted by Mud8541

Man, the options seem to be endless. By "v1 dampers" are you referring to parts from the "old" performance kit (v2 ostensibly referring to the new kit)?

Any posts you read that led you to this configuration would be helpful if you have links.

Yes, the "v1 dampers" suggest they are from the 1st version of the BMW perf kit, aka the old kit. The springs are the current perf kit, hence the v2.

I did not base it on any existing setups I read about. I wanted a set of springs that would not lower the car too much, but also not soft like the Eibach. So the BMW yellows were my pick. For dampers, the actual v2 dampers might be a better pairing, but were too expensive. I did not want to spend too much since this whole thing started with trying to control body roll via sway bars... and now it's grown oversize. A used set of koni's are $400 plus and I'm not convinced they're better then the v1's. They were originally designed to be paired with reduced-travel ZSP springs (via longer bumpstops) so I don't think they're much changed from the v2's (no proof). Overall both being Made by BMW and at bargain price sealed the decision for me.

Originally Posted by Mud8541

Also, do you (or does anybody else, for that matter) have any guidance on what is/isn't kosher on lease vehicles? The obvious solution is to keep all original parts and put them all back at lease end (just eat the labor). But I figured if I went with the BMW perf kit, nobody...meaning at BMW...would complain if I turned the car in that way. Of course, if I get the car dialed in the way I like it I'll be reluctant to turn it in at all and probably go for the buy out. But a lot can change in 3 years. They might have 335d's with a DCT. Or even a flux capacitor.

Sorry, no idea about lease terms.

[jjellyneck]

Any idea what the springs rates are for both the zsp springs and the yellow BMW springs?

[335dFan]

Originally Posted by mels335i

Hello everyone:
I am new to this board but have owned BMW's for over 30 years (showing my age here) starting with the original 320i, e30 318i, e36 325i, e36 M3 (preserved in my garage) and e60 545i.
Have recently purchased a 08 335i with the sport package. Along with it came a performance suspension kit, I believe it's the "old version". The kit has the shocks and hardware but no springs or sway bars, although it has the rubber sway bar supports.
I've done searches on the boards but have not found the answers to the following:

1) Apparently this kit is designed to work with the sport (ZSP) springs. Will it lower the car any? I really want to keep it the same height for clearance getting in and out of my steep driveway to prevent scraping the front and rear end.

2) Are there sway bars supposed to be with this kit since it has the rubber supports, Or which ones should I purchase to reduce body roll, although there seems very little with the SP suspension?

3) How much difference in ride stiffness? Anything near the e36 M3? I've read on the boards that there is very little difference from the OEM sport suspension. Should I even go through the trouble of installing it if there's no difference?
Thanks.

You're not showing your age! I bought a 1971 BMW 2002 new in Fall of 1970 when stationed in Germany. So there, youngster. Hehe.

[AlanAZ]

Originally Posted by jjellyneck

Any idea what the springs rates are for both the zsp springs and the yellow BMW springs?

Did you try the spring rate sticky thread above?

[jjellyneck]

Originally Posted by AlanAZ

Did you try the spring rate sticky thread above?

Yes! The yellow springs are a calculated figure based on the statement that the yellow springs are "35% (or so) stiffer than ZSP" (per BMW), and not sure what those rates *really* are. So it's probably close, but trying to find if that has truly been measured.

[8355adam]

Does anyone know what part number for the guide supports that you are recommended to upgrade on pre 06/2006 models with the old kit?

[jjellyneck]

Originally Posted by 8355adam

Does anyone know what part number for the guide supports that you are recommended to upgrade on pre 06/2006 models with the old kit?

On this link below, the 2nd from the bottom is the Performance Suspension. It contains the part number on the product description.
http://www.getbmwparts.com/partlocat...16&startrow=26

[8355adam]

Thanks for this. Do you know if I need 4 for each corner or just 2 for the front axle?

[8355adam]

Forget that it's answered in the description!