Changing from JB and Proceede to GIAC ? why ?

Notorious · 08-06-2009, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbdavis1

It will be nice to see the comparisons between GIAC flashed stage 1 vs. jb3 and PROcede only. To really see how this tune holds up against two very reputable tunes.

+1

Tim@P3Cars.com · 08-06-2009, 10:12 AM

I have run GIAC in my Audi's and VW products for years. It is generally great software. In the past Piggy back set ups really kind of turned me off, however the PROcede installs easy and deals with so many parameters I actually feel MORE comfortable running it on our 335. Even "flash" tuners are typically kept in the dark on the factory code and have to "guess" to get things close to right. I have tried everything from the JB to Dinan software. It really kind of comes down to what the goal is. If you are already running a PROcede and are happy with the results I wouldn't suggest you change because really there isn't going to be a huge seat of the pants difference. You are probably better off moving on to other mods that work in conjunction with the software or piggy back system you already have.

Cheers!

lpphreakx06 · 08-06-2009, 10:24 AM

That will be me. From JB3 -->Procede -->GIAC
I'm going to call the nearest flasher soon to test this out.

cn555ic · 08-06-2009, 10:30 AM

I think a flash is great and all, but with the Procede and Jb platform changing variables on the tune is much easier and doesn't require sending the ecu out and not being able to drive the car until the ecu is returned back....Also at the present moment the Procede and Jb tune seems to have enough to keep most of the torque and HP junkies happy...those of us who have these tunes, IMO would not be cost effective to goto a flash, but those people without any sort of tune at the present moment probably can take advantage of this flash, but it might not be the same performance as the piggybacks that are available now, but that is an assumption and we all have to wait and see what the performance gains are on this new flash.

Former_Boosted_IS · 08-06-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

I think a flash is great and all, but with the Procede and Jb platform changing variables on the tune is much easier and doesn't require sending the ecu out and not being able to drive the car until the ecu is returned back....Also at the present moment the Procede and Jb tune seems to have enough to keep most of the torque and HP junkies happy...those of us who have these tunes, IMO would not be cost effective to goto a flash, but those people without any sort of tune at the present moment probably can take advantage of this flash, but it might not be the same performance as the piggybacks that are available now, but that is an assumption and we all have to wait and see what the performance gains are on this new flash.

cn555ic, I think you are spot on. Until "flash at home" becomes available, this is going to remain a distant third.

Craig@SupremePower · 08-06-2009, 10:46 AM

agreed!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

cn555ic, I think you are spot on. Until "flash at home" becomes available, this is going to remain a distant third.

astris · 08-06-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS

cn555ic, I think you are spot on. Until "flash at home" becomes available, this is going to remain a distant third.

Haven't been around the Audi forums in a while, but I don't recall there ever being a flash at home option. You would get your flash at a local dealer (GIAC has a ton) and get some additional maps loaded to your map switcher. Never seemed to be a big issue.

Don't get me wrong, it sounds great, but if you have a local dealer I don't see it as a problem. I would probably never mail my ecu though.

Eugene-TAIWAN · 08-06-2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

I think a flash is great and all, but with the Procede and Jb platform changing variables on the tune is much easier and doesn't require sending the ecu out and not being able to drive the car until the ecu is returned back....Also at the present moment the Procede and Jb tune seems to have enough to keep most of the torque and HP junkies happy...those of us who have these tunes, IMO would not be cost effective to goto a flash, but those people without any sort of tune at the present moment probably can take advantage of this flash, but it might not be the same performance as the piggybacks that are available now, but that is an assumption and we all have to wait and see what the performance gains are on this new flash.

Don't really understand why you need a new file very time you do a new mod. unless its something big. Or else your sensors in your car should pick it up and your mapping should do the slight adjustment.

RambleJ · 08-06-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by astris

Haven't been around the Audi forums in a while, but I don't recall there ever being a flash at home option. You would get your flash at a local dealer (GIAC has a ton) and get some additional maps loaded to your map switcher. Never seemed to be a big issue.

Don't get me wrong, it sounds great, but if you have a local dealer I don't see it as a problem. I would probably never mail my ecu though.

Exactly! These post are acting like there is only 1 GIAC dealer and its in Alaska.. Have any of you looked at the GIAC website.. There are tons of local dealerships throughout the nation.. Sending the ECU most likely will not be a must.

cn555ic · 08-06-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eugene-TAIWAN

Don't really understand why you need a new file very time you do a new mod. unless its something big. Or else your sensors in your car should pick it up and your mapping should do the slight adjustment.

I am not just speaking of mods but perhaps safety features or any other things that fix clitches in the program etc, ...with a flash each time a new feature is introduced or a correction, consumers have to mail their ECU back to them to upgrade to the new features offered and corrections, whereas the piggybacks today its just a simple click of a button at home...I am not bashing at all, just stating the obvious con about a flash, although I would assume their are many pros of the flash.

cn555ic · 08-06-2009, 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RambleJ

Exactly! These post are acting like there is only 1 GIAC dealer and its in Alaska.. Have any of you looked at the GIAC website.. There are tons of local dealerships throughout the nation.. Sending the ECU most likely will not be a must.

If thats the case it would be a positive to be able to drive to a dealership for the flash....

Glowin · 08-06-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeph

I won't buy it without the map switcher. I think many are in that same boat. They should make haste...

+1,000,000! Defeats the whole purpose of invisibility if you're chipped the whole time, or you have to get reflashed each time/send in the ECU. Who cares if the code's invisible to the dealer's scans? All the dealer has to do is take the car for a test drive, and it's totally obvious. I wouldn't take that chance with your warranty.

joyride08 · 08-06-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

I am not just speaking of mods but perhaps safety features or any other things that fix clitches in the program etc, ...with a flash each time a new feature is introduced or a correction, consumers have to mail their ECU back to them to upgrade to the new features offered and corrections, whereas the piggybacks today its just a simple click of a button at home...I am not bashing at all, just stating the obvious con about a flash, although I would assume their are many pros of the flash.

Well that is a major difference, because GIAC is so detailed in the software, they don't release BETA software and let the people supporting them really test it out. This is a huge difference, I really can't believe the amount of BETA threads around. A closed BETA test is one thing, but opening up a public BETA when you always argue safety seems pretty hypocritical. <Insert You Don't Know Anything Response>

Plus, GIAC has a very solid resume, and more options on the table are always a good thing.

roozie2001 · 08-06-2009, 02:31 PM

as much as i like GIAC i didnt think they were the best solution for Audis either. to me APR was the best tune u could get.

cn555ic · 08-06-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joyride08

Well that is a major difference, because GIAC is so detailed in the software, they don't release BETA software and let the people supporting them really test it out. This is a huge difference, I really can't believe the amount of BETA threads around. A closed BETA test is one thing, but opening up a public BETA when you always argue safety seems pretty hypocritical. <Insert You Don't Know Anything Response>

Plus, GIAC has a very solid resume, and more options on the table are always a good thing.

I understand what your saying about beta testing and all, but although the product that GIAC will introduce to the market may not be in Beta form, don't you think they will make changes here and there for the flash being that maybe they didn't address unforseen issues when the flash first was introduced to the public...and if they do people would have to get the new flash to be updated to the latest software revision, and IMO its a PITA compared to the piggys out there that requires a quick update via a laptop or chip burner....No one is arguing that more options are better, this thread is about going from a piggyback to the GIAC flash!!

chumley · 08-06-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glowin

+1,000,000! Defeats the whole purpose of invisibility if you're chipped the whole time, or you have to get reflashed each time/send in the ECU. Who cares if the code's invisible to the dealer's scans? All the dealer has to do is take the car for a test drive, and it's totally obvious. I wouldn't take that chance with your warranty.

Agreed. I have a new car and am not that thrilled with digging into the ecu area even though I know it's not that difficult. This isn't my first BMW and I'm fairly sure I'll be back at the dealer for one thing or another at least 6-8 time in the first year or so. To me, a flash that's reversible would be perfect. Wasn't the old Shark Injector like that? I wouldn't care so much about losing the tune, if I keep my car for 4-5 years, what would a 5 year old JB3 or Procede be worth anyway?

It would have to be capable of being done at home or I wouldn't even give it a second look. I'm not sending my ecu anywhere and even though there are a couple dealers listed withing 2-3 hours of me, it doesn't mean you have great support. Pulled up the web site of a dealer about 2 hours away and it's a car dealership. Do they have a monkey capable of plugging in a cable and pressing a button? I'm sure. Do they have a clue about the software, our cars, etc.? I seriously doubt it...and you still have the problem of the flash being there if the service tech test drives the car.

joyride08 · 08-06-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

I understand what your saying about beta testing and all, but although the product that GIAC will introduce to the market may not be in Beta form, don't you think they will make changes here and there for the flash being that maybe they didn't address unforseen issues when the flash first was introduced to the public...and if they do people would have to get the new flash to be updated to the latest software revision, and IMO its a PITA compared to the piggys out there that requires a quick update via a laptop or chip burner....No one is arguing that more options are better, this thread is about going from a piggyback to the GIAC flash!!

Well, I think that is one major difference, the piggy back systems seem to always be pushing the envelope with new maps, etc. The flash systems, while offering different "stages" are more, set and forget (fully tested), if they want more vroom, go up a stage.

And yes, i agree to have to Flash each time is a PITA, but for those not wanting to run there car to the edge and participate in BETAs just to make a few more ponies, this for them. I can see a lot of people wanting something that they don't have to take out for a warranty claim. They may have went the piggy back route because of a lack of really good options. This is a good thing, I can see this going really well for them honestly. And I can see people going the opposite way as well.

stressdoc · 08-06-2009, 05:17 PM

Piggys offer security of removal & retention of complete OEM programming. Procede offers code deletion, gauge display (boost etc.), and easily downloadable upgrades at frequent intervals.

If you have a GIAC dealer local, it seems like a reasonable option, especially for those non-DIYers.

Glowin · 08-06-2009, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stressdoc

Piggys offer security of removal & retention of complete OEM programming. Procede offers code deletion, gauge display (boost etc.), and easily downloadable upgrades at frequent intervals.

SAY WHAT??? Did I miss something? When did that get released???

HP Autosport · 08-06-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vAnt826

Map switching is just that, map switching. You cannot remove the map for dealer visits unless you reflash (must be done by a GIAC dealer).

With the current Audi/VW, Bently, and Porsche, map switching is done via a hand-held flash loader unit. It's a quick 10-15 second process.

Harold

HP Autosport · 08-06-2009, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbdavis1

It will be nice to see the comparisons between GIAC flashed stage 1 vs. jb3 and PROcede only. To really see how this tune holds up against two very reputable tunes.

Let's not forget Dinan and LET Motorsport flashes as well.

gian335 · 08-07-2009, 12:13 AM

I think that having a piggyback is more versatile in so many way's.

1. u can sell it when u don't want it (resale value)
2. map switching,....procede- on the fly mapswitching
3. multiple map's for octane, mod's (dp's, fmic)
4. u can take it out for dealer visits, so ur warranty is safe
5. built in 02 sims
6. customizable mapping for ur preference.

but then again, I think flashing is still making its way into the n54 community, in terms of popularity. Once we have handheld at-home flashing, things will change. Just waiting till this get's more popular so i can put it to the test against my v3

...

08-06-2009, 10:12 AM	#24
Tim@P3Cars.com 4 Rep 12 Posts Drives: Lotus Esprit SE/S4 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Columbus Ohio iTrader: (0)	It's all good I have run GIAC in my Audi's and VW products for years. It is generally great software. In the past Piggy back set ups really kind of turned me off, however the PROcede installs easy and deals with so many parameters I actually feel MORE comfortable running it on our 335. Even "flash" tuners are typically kept in the dark on the factory code and have to "guess" to get things close to right. I have tried everything from the JB to Dinan software. It really kind of comes down to what the goal is. If you are already running a PROcede and are happy with the results I wouldn't suggest you change because really there isn't going to be a huge seat of the pants difference. You are probably better off moving on to other mods that work in conjunction with the software or piggy back system you already have. Cheers!
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08-06-2009, 10:24 AM	#25
lpphreakx06 Professional Moose Racer 316 Rep 7,509 Posts Drives: SG 335i E92 RIP + 2015 SS M3 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Bellevue, Wa iTrader: (25)	That will be me. From JB3 -->Procede -->GIAC I'm going to call the nearest flasher soon to test this out. __________________ Visit my blog anytime: http://www.sfpayments.com BMW Dream Team PNW Chapter, member #1 \|HP Autowerks \| AR DESIGN \| BMW PERFORMANCE \| STOP TECH \| Volk Racing\| AMS \| ARKYM
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08-06-2009, 10:30 AM	#26
cn555ic 441 Rep 18,331 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: US iTrader: (6)	I think a flash is great and all, but with the Procede and Jb platform changing variables on the tune is much easier and doesn't require sending the ecu out and not being able to drive the car until the ecu is returned back....Also at the present moment the Procede and Jb tune seems to have enough to keep most of the torque and HP junkies happy...those of us who have these tunes, IMO would not be cost effective to goto a flash, but those people without any sort of tune at the present moment probably can take advantage of this flash, but it might not be the same performance as the piggybacks that are available now, but that is an assumption and we all have to wait and see what the performance gains are on this new flash.
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08-06-2009, 02:31 PM	#36
roozie2001 Just some guy 49 Rep 1,531 Posts Drives: 2008 White 335i sedan Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (4)	as much as i like GIAC i didnt think they were the best solution for Audis either. to me APR was the best tune u could get. __________________ 2008 BMW 335i/Sedan/Alpine White/Terra/Steptronic/Premium Package/Sports package/Comfort Access/USB/Sirius
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08-06-2009, 05:17 PM	#40
stressdoc Moderator 618 Rep 10,855 Posts Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Waco TX iTrader: (0)	Piggys offer security of removal & retention of complete OEM programming. Procede offers code deletion, gauge display (boost etc.), and easily downloadable upgrades at frequent intervals. If you have a GIAC dealer local, it seems like a reasonable option, especially for those non-DIYers. __________________ My recent ED photos: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1026808 my not-so-recent ED: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31829 Please join BMWCCA http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=c...&ref_by=300279
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08-07-2009, 12:13 AM	#44
gian335 Major 36 Rep 1,031 Posts Drives: e92 335 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: uknown iTrader: (1)	I think that having a piggyback is more versatile in so many way's. 1. u can sell it when u don't want it (resale value) 2. map switching,....procede- on the fly mapswitching 3. multiple map's for octane, mod's (dp's, fmic) 4. u can take it out for dealer visits, so ur warranty is safe 5. built in 02 sims 6. customizable mapping for ur preference. but then again, I think flashing is still making its way into the n54 community, in terms of popularity. Once we have handheld at-home flashing, things will change. Just waiting till this get's more popular so i can put it to the test against my v3 ...
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