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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > Pull ABS fuse?



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      05-02-2008, 12:07 AM   #1
O-cha
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Pull ABS fuse?

Does it work on track? Any negatives besides no ABS?

More importantly anyone know which fuse it is, the diagram isn't exactly impressive.
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      05-02-2008, 12:41 AM   #2
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Can someone enlighten me as to why you would want to disable ABS when on the track? Im still somewhat of a noob but i really cant see any advantages to this. Why would you want to make it so your brakes do lock up...
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      05-02-2008, 12:45 AM   #3
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So you can slam on your brakes and they lock up and you flat spot your R compounds and have to buy new ones?
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      05-02-2008, 01:45 AM   #4
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cuZ iTz cOol yO!
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      05-02-2008, 01:50 AM   #5
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How about in order not to accidentally burn the ABS pump out on track pads while your getting used to them. Along with subconsciously restraining yourself because locking up the tires jars you more then the ABS kicking in.
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      05-02-2008, 11:55 AM   #6
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Normally people are trying to TOTALLY disable traction control. With the 335i..I think if you hold the DTC button for 5 seconds..you do that. I personally would not mess with fuses on ABS.
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      05-02-2008, 12:22 PM   #7
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I still don't see the point.

On another note, if you're not running R-comps, there is no reason to run track pads. The stock pads are more than sufficient to overcome street tires. If you have more pad friction, it ain't gonna help you if your tires are not sticking.

Secondly, if you're running r-comps, you shouldn't need the shock of locking up to teach you that you overbraked. ABS kicking in is VERY obvious and if you're having trouble discerning that, you probably are having trouble discerning when your tires are getting close to the limits of adhesion on either end.....which indicates you shouldn't be running rcomps because they'll just mask your mistakes.

Based on your comments, I recommend sticking with stock brakes and street tires.
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      05-02-2008, 12:26 PM   #8
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Disabling ABS has been the norm in all rally driving for a long time. I doubt even the modern electronics can beat a good driver in braking skill.
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      05-02-2008, 12:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
How about in order not to accidentally burn the ABS pump out on track pads while your getting used to them. Along with subconsciously restraining yourself because locking up the tires jars you more then the ABS kicking in.
Wow!
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      05-02-2008, 01:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoastman View Post
I still don't see the point.

On another note, if you're not running R-comps, there is no reason to run track pads. The stock pads are more than sufficient to overcome street tires. If you have more pad friction, it ain't gonna help you if your tires are not sticking.

Secondly, if you're running r-comps, you shouldn't need the shock of locking up to teach you that you overbraked. ABS kicking in is VERY obvious and if you're having trouble discerning that, you probably are having trouble discerning when your tires are getting close to the limits of adhesion on either end.....which indicates you shouldn't be running rcomps because they'll just mask your mistakes.

Based on your comments, I recommend sticking with stock brakes and street tires.
And an elitist enters the thread. Give me a brake man (get it) the stock pads don't hold up street tires or not. "Secondly" all you're doing is putting words in my mouth. I did not say I couldn't tell when ABS kicked in, I said it's something that does not make a big impact on you as locking up a tire would.

But think whatever you want about my driving skills which you have never seen and know nothing about.
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      05-02-2008, 02:06 PM   #11
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Wow, this is getting off topic. I would also be interested in which fuse disables the ABS.

For those that are wondering why you disable ABS on the track...

My instructors have said that it is for safety reasons. If you spin the car the first thing you do is "put both feet in" (brake and clutch). You want to lock all your tires so that they have no grip and that you spin off the track in a straight line. That allows for your car to behave in the most predictable manner possible. You want your car to behave as predictable as possible because there can be cars right after you traveling at high speeds that needs to avoid you. If ABS is engaged your wheels will alternate between having grip and no grip. Each time a wheel has grip your car will rotate around that axis. This results in your car taking a wobbly, unpredictable path off the track making it hard for other cars to avoid you. Disabling ABS isn't really for your own safety but the safety of others on the track with you.
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      05-02-2008, 02:29 PM   #12
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That is really mostly BS. I am an instructor..and I dont agree with what the other instructors said about disabling ABS in this regard. If you spin..put both fee in..period..dont try to correct...because you may overcorrect and hit a wall. (yes, I have seen it happen). I have spun lots of times in the past 11 years on track...I dont buy this one at all.

Sorry...but I have an opinion too.
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      05-02-2008, 02:51 PM   #13
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Can't comment regarding the validity of what my instructors have said. I'm really not in any position to experiment with spinning off the track with ABS on and ABS off. I'm guessing that this is going to come down how you go off. One spin 360 degree, vs many 360 degrees, vs 90, vs 180 etc.

Dang where are the Mythbusters when you need them. Or hey if someone wants to donate a car and some track time I'll be happy to spin the car off the track for you.
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      05-02-2008, 02:56 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
And an elitist enters the thread. Give me a brake man (get it) the stock pads don't hold up street tires or not. "Secondly" all you're doing is putting words in my mouth. I did not say I couldn't tell when ABS kicked in, I said it's something that does not make a big impact on you as locking up a tire would.

But think whatever you want about my driving skills which you have never seen and know nothing about.
It's not about being elitist. It's about the best pathway to learn. If you want to shortcut that, it's a disservice to yourself and the other people out on track with you.

If you're a beginner, which it sounds like you are (which is fine, we were all there), resist the temptation to upgrade to race pads, race tires, etc. etc.

You will learn a LOT more if you stick with the stock stuff. Hell I've done a ton of days and when I went back to street tires, I learned that I was using the Rcomps to mask some of my lack of smoothness. A few days on street tires and when I went back to rcomps, I shaved some more time off.

Additionally, at the beginner level, you will at some point come in waaaaay too hot and instinctively (and don't say you won't because everyone did at some point, including me) increase steering input, if you don't have ABS, you're going to plow right into the weeds with the wheel locked....that means rollover city.
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      05-02-2008, 02:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lane View Post
Disabling ABS has been the norm in all rally driving for a long time. I doubt even the modern electronics can beat a good driver in braking skill.
Rally driving on dirt is completely different than tracking on tarmac.

If you lock up your tires on the dirt, you won't instantly flatspot them. On tarmac, you will.

On dirt, ABS might be a liability because you might hit ice mode program and sometimes it's faster to just pile some dirt up in front of the tires.

That is not the case with tarmac.
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      05-02-2008, 03:03 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoastman View Post
(and don't say you won't because everyone did at some point, including me)
I haven't and won't. I've done exactly that many times and have always turned in much later or gone off straight. I wouldn't even start the turn unless I was sure I was down to speed. Who's the beginner again?

(and don't say you weren't being an elitest)


Say it's a bad idea and share your experience all you want but don't come in here pretending like you know anything about me and how I drive.
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      05-02-2008, 03:11 PM   #17
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Ok..time to open up a few budweisers...lets all be friends here...btw, I am sure I cannot pee as far as some of you guys can.

I suggest we call a truce. I apologize for getting this thread in the direction it went.
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      05-02-2008, 03:34 PM   #18
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Yeah not worth my time.

Your comments and questions indicate lack of experience - no one I know with ample experience would make the same assertions.

That said, it's your life and your car. Do what you please. Just please let your instructor and preferably the other track participants know your intentions. They have a right to know.

Steve - so about Miller....
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      05-02-2008, 03:35 PM   #19
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This from the person who turns in when he knows he's going too fast.
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      05-02-2008, 03:45 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by O-cha View Post
This from the person who turns in when he knows he's going too fast.
I made a mistake by taking you off my ignore list. I am ashamed for taking your baiting, which is incessant and in virtually every post you make. But you must be set straight, like a little child.

You clearly do not understand performance driving. You are a beginner. Nearly every post you make indicates this.

Here's a tip for you, neophyte: At some point, you will try to push your braking points a little further or try to come in a little hotter. Then one day you will exceed the capabilities of your car. You will turn in, start scrubbing and see that wall come at you. I do not know a single experienced track rat who has not experienced that. The key word is experienced.
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      05-04-2008, 10:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jongchen View Post
Wow, this is getting off topic. I would also be interested in which fuse disables the ABS.

For those that are wondering why you disable ABS on the track...

My instructors have said that it is for safety reasons. If you spin the car the first thing you do is "put both feet in" (brake and clutch). You want to lock all your tires so that they have no grip and that you spin off the track in a straight line. That allows for your car to behave in the most predictable manner possible. You want your car to behave as predictable as possible because there can be cars right after you traveling at high speeds that needs to avoid you. If ABS is engaged your wheels will alternate between having grip and no grip. Each time a wheel has grip your car will rotate around that axis. This results in your car taking a wobbly, unpredictable path off the track making it hard for other cars to avoid you. Disabling ABS isn't really for your own safety but the safety of others on the track with you.
I thought modern ABS detects situations like that and locks the brakes in a spin situation? I know mine locks up when I spin out on the skid pad.
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