[ZURICH]

Originally Posted by xenon

Our local was specially decked out in Swiss flags yesterday.

so was mine! but then again I am in Switzerland

[rich1068]

Originally Posted by Kerr

I don't remember any negative English comments other than when an English journalist was joking with him about Scotland not qualifying for a tournament then asked who he would support. His response in context of the joke was anyone but England.

That was my impression too. Along with if he lost he's Scottish, if he won he's British.

Other than that I have no opinion on him or the game.

[chrisbin]

Originally Posted by leetennis

Admittedly Andy isn't my favourite player, the things he has said were stupid but said many years ago, he has obviously done a lot of growing up since.

His speech yesterday has certainly won him more support, but his tennis won't, it's still the same old Murray.

Federrer has a fearless game, prepared to take calculated risks on the bigger point to go get the win.
Murray sits back and hopes it will all be ok, which it can be against those outside the top four but never against, nadal, djokvic, federrer. If Murray wants a grand slam he must play more aggressive tennis on the big points.
Check out the unforced error count... Not many from Andy so keeping the ball in....A lot more from federrer because he wants to bury the opposition.

Have you watched his games at Wimbledon this year...?? As I said the first set and a half yesterday, that wa sthe difference - much more positive and agressive, and took the points...then RF came up with a couple of inspirational shots that turned the 2nd set, and the momentum started to go the other way, aided by the roof closing.

I'm no Murray fan, but he was dramatically better this year.

Oh, and lets not forget, he's beaten RF more times than the other way........just not at Grand Slam events

[leetennis]

Originally Posted by chrisbin

Have you watched his games at Wimbledon this year...?? As I said the first set and a half yesterday, that wa sthe difference - much more positive and agressive, and took the points...then RF came up with a couple of inspirational shots that turned the 2nd set, and the momentum started to go the other way, aided by the roof closing.

I'm no Murray fan, but he was dramatically better this year.

Oh, and lets not forget, he's beaten RF more times than the other way........just not at Grand Slam events

Yeah I watch a fair bit, lol.

His only two challenges were tsonga and ferrer which for the number four in the world he should be beating.

Murray is a counter puncher relying on winning points from negative positions, against fed that won't cut it.

Regardless of whether he has beaten fed more than not, neither would give a toss over that statistic to have another or a grand slam.

Did you notice how far fed moved around to hit his forehand on murrays second serve to land a punch on Murray. Watch closer in the bigger points 30/30, 30/40 and see what fed tries to throw at him, it's that level bravery and commitment to his shots that keeps fed where he is. Murray lacks that tenacity but can keep a ball in like champ, at that level he needs to win points not just stay in them.

I never was a Murray hater or lover, after yesterday, he opened up and made himself more appealing and showed more determination. But his tennis isn't that far different from old, he still needs ingredients that djokovic, nadal and fed already had long ago.

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by CarAbuser

Can't stand patriotism in sport at all. All this national hype about sporting events is just a marketing gimmic for the working class flag wavers.

Can't people just enjoy the game and support players for their flare and skill rather than their nationality?

I am only interested in motorsport. This is my view also. I support drivers who I believe in. Ones I've followed all the way to the top.

[AlanQS]

It sounds like some of you guys just read the headlines over Murray's "anyone but England comment".

If you had read more than that, you would have learned that Tim Henman and a journalist Andy had previously met were travelling to somewhere for an interview with Andy. It was the year of the World cup and both the guys had been pulling his leg rotten about the poor state of the Scotland team, poor condition of Scottish rugby and so forth. Finally they ask him who he's going to support in the World Cup so his retort to his mates was an understandable "anyone but England". The journalist enjoyed the joshing back and forth and recalled the anecdote. No problems at all then.

Then a Scots bashing journalist from one of the dailies prints the headline "Andy Murray will support anyone but England" and goes on a rant about ungrateful Scottish people, England funds them then they bite the English hand that feeds them, ad nauseam.

Other papers then repeated the headline without making any attempt to ascertain the context or veracity then yet another paper totally invents "the fact" that Murray bought a Paraguay shirt - it was just an out-right lie. Now, years later, half the English population STILL believes that Murray hates the English. - It's utterly pathetic how the newspapers are believed so readily despite their record - "it's in print, it must be right".

This despite the fact that Tim Henman was actually interviewed on radio about this a year after the furore still hadn't died down.

And it has affected him a lot. I can see no other reason why, when Federer broke his serve in the third set, the crowd roared like a banshee - home hero my arse.

[Dave_3]

Well done the lad. First British finalist in ages.

D.

[mikeysix]

Originally Posted by AlanQS

It sounds like some of you guys just read the headlines over Murray's "anyone but England comment".

If you had read more than that, you would have learned that Tim Henman and a journalist Andy had previously met were travelling to somewhere for an interview with Andy. It was the year of the World cup and both the guys had been pulling his leg rotten about the poor state of the Scotland team, poor condition of Scottish rugby and so forth. Finally they ask him who he's going to support in the World Cup so his retort to his mates was an understandable "anyone but England". The journalist enjoyed the joshing back and forth and recalled the anecdote. No problems at all then.

Then a Scots bashing journalist from one of the dailies prints the headline "Andy Murray will support anyone but England" and goes on a rant about ungrateful Scottish people, England funds them then they bite the English hand that feeds them, ad nauseam.

Other papers then repeated the headline without making any attempt to ascertain the context or veracity then yet another paper totally invents "the fact" that Murray bought a Paraguay shirt - it was just an out-right lie. Now, years later, half the English population STILL believes that Murray hates the English. - It's utterly pathetic how the newspapers are believed so readily despite their record - "it's in print, it must be right".

This despite the fact that Tim Henman was actually interviewed on radio about this a year after the furore still hadn't died down.

And it has affected him a lot. I can see no other reason why, when Federer broke his serve in the third set, the crowd roared like a banshee - home hero my arse.

+1. These are the facts. Aye scotland is pish at just about everythin so if a scotsman does do well then fuckin acknowledge him.

[mikeysix]

Plus the boys lucky to be alive. He attented dunblane primary when all those kids were murdered. No wonder hes emotional, that sort of thing will take its toll and if your doin well in life a little credit where its due wouldnt be such a bad thing. Fuckin media rippin him a new arsehole! Really grips ma shite

[Kerr]

The final pulled in the second highest viewing figures this year in Britain.

The only higher viewing figure was one of the England games V. Italy at Euro 2012.

So a little Scotsman that too many people hate, playing a minority sport and comes from a small country can attract more viewers than every other major event or programme apart from one England game.

Worth millions, rightly world number 4, got a stunning women and people want to watch.

He is doing something right.

[AlanQS]

There are too many Scots commenting on this thread. Would any English forum member who was/is under the impression that "Andy Murray hates the English" care to make a comment. Particularly if they ever heard the Tim Henman interview and realise that Murray was merely replying in kind to being teased.

[chrisbin]

Originally Posted by leetennis

" stuff".......

I agree with most of what you say, in general, but I think he deserves a little more credit for the change in his game plan this year....that first set was far more positive, for example...

Good to see someone has posted the true story on this thread too....but never let facts get in the way......blah,blah

[rich1068]

Originally Posted by AlanQS

Other papers then repeated the headline without making any attempt to ascertain the context or veracity then yet another paper totally invents "the fact" etc...

Does this sort of thing really happen? In our newspapers? Unbelievable.

[Carjack]

If Andy Murray regrets saying :- “anyone but England comment”, he should make a statement of refute or regret, but of course he never will.

Why? Because amoungst Scotsman it is ‘the right thing to say’ and he is of course a supporter of the SNP. He reminds somewhat of Sean Connery, a man of his ilk.

I personally would ALWAYS support a team representing Scotland in lieu of an English team and Andy did very well to get where he did. He has my congratulations.

My Wife & I like Scotland very much and had a super holiday there two years ago and plan to return. There is no where in the world like it.

But if Andy cannot support England why should I support him?
I am English!

[Kerr]

When he is playing tennins he is representing Britain and not Scotland.

We have our own football team so ofcourse he will support Scotland and not England.

I don't think anyone is asking the English to support Andy, just show a little respect and not be so bitter.

[chedixon]

None of this will be an issue soon if Salmond gets his way as no Scots will be British ;p

(sorry, couldnt resist a bit of trolling lol, wish Murry all the best though, hes a great player, any other period in time and he'd have won one by now. He's just unfortunate there's 3 other world class players who are supremely consistent).

[AlanQS]

Carjack, did you not read the explanation of how the comment came about - or do you not believe it? Why should he express regret for slagging his friends back in the same way that they were slagging him?

The villain of the piece isn't Murray but the Scots hating journalist (I don't know who he is unfortunately because the piece wasn't printed in the Scottish version of the English paper concerned - unsurprisingly). Murray has expressed regret, not because he meant his comment but because of the invented storm, and it is the primary reason for the dour interviews he gives - being careful never to say anything that can be twisted against him in the same manner again.

Take three good friends, one supports Liverpool and two support Chelsea. The Chelsea supporting friends are winding up their mate by saying things like "I'm looking forward to the Champion's League, how about you?" and "how do you think Liverpool will do this year in the Champion's League". You get the style? It goes on like this for a couple of minutes.

Then they ask him, well, who will you support this year to which the unsurprising retort is "anyone but Chelsea!"

Do you really think the Liverpool fan wants to see his friends team bomb out to salve his own disappointment? No.

But when this translates into Scotland and England, the stereotypes flare into life and the English think that the Scots hate them (and the reverse is also true). In the best of us, there's a little bit of this attitude, in the worst of us, meet the stereotypes!

There's nothing wrong with a little "frizzle" one against the other, that's what makes sporting competition between Scotland and England so interesting to most of us. But the same people on both sides of the border who are say, half way to being the stereotypes, actually have English/Scottish friends - people who they regard as all right guys but it doesn't occur to them that there's a world of difference between "The English" or "The Scottish" and knowing actual individual people, in most cases the stereotype doesn't survive.

[Gibbo]

I have witnessed first hand the Scots supporting the English at football.

I was in Edinburgh on the 18th June 1996, With England 4 - 1 up against the Nethlands and Scotland winning 1 - 0 vs the Swiss the Scots were close to qualifying for the Euro 96 Quarter finals. All the locals were honorary England fans for one night.

[Dave_3]

Originally Posted by chedixon

None of this will be an issue soon if Salmond gets his way as no Scots will be British ;p

And neither would any English.

Myself and Susie (who is a fiercely pro-indepedence colleague) supported England with Kev in the recent Euros. Quite freely too.

D.

[AlanQS]

Originally Posted by Gibbo

I have witnessed first hand the Scots supporting the English at football.

I was in Edinburgh on the 18th June 1996, With England 4 - 1 up against the Netherlands and Scotland winning 1 - 0 vs the Swiss the Scots were close to qualifying for the Euro 96 Quarter finals. All the locals were honorary England fans for one night.

What you might not know though Gibbo, at 4 - 0 up there was the odd voice raised along the lines of "if they concede even one goal, we're scuppered" then that hound Seaman let in a goal near the very end. Thanks ya fud!

Albeit that a clean sheet would have seen Scotland through, with twenty minutes to go the Scottish co-commentator for viewers in Scotland (not heard in England) calmed down the excitable main commentator by saying "one goal isn't enough, trust me, we need another goal" - so we did it to ourselves in the end.

[AlanQS]

Here is the recording of the interview with Tim Henman de-bunking the "anyone but England" crap and it was Richard Littlejohn from the Mail who printed the lie about the Paraguay shirt.!

Link

[rich1068]

Littlejohn? That's most unlike him. He's not usually a bigoted, talentless, ill-informed, xenophobic rabble rouser who appeals to his tabloid readerships base instincts. Very surprised.

:edit:

Oh. Hang on. He is.