[jeffb335]

Originally Posted by Nathan_h

I assume that the midbass issue is not only audible but shows up on an RTA measurement?

yep, I think it was about -3db to -6 db from my sub crossover point (tried a bunch) up to about 250hz. I stopped messing with the RTA after awhile as it was leading me to too many dead ends. If I recall Andy W says the target curve is +9 below 60hz and slopes down to flat by 160hz......basically I was missing that sloped part, sub bass was always strong, midrange was always smooth, I was just missing the part in between...

[nato-main-man-5am]

Thanks. That's very helpful.

[nato-main-man-5am]

My initial setup config is the following. Note that this is in a 1 series (128). I know this is not the 1 series forum, but since this is the most substantial MS-8 thread, I figure others are likely to find this info here....

During x-over set-up I told it I have 2-way front, and all other speakers are "1-way". For the fronts, I selected the "high-pass" of 35Hz. I'd love to go lower but assume the underseat stock hifi speakers can't handle anything really deep.
X-over between woofers and door mid/high I set at 150Hz for now.
I set the rear speakers to 150Hz as well.

Optimized for driver's seat, processing and Logic 7 turned on, faded slightly to the front.

Big shout out to Technic. I've bought various harnesses in the past for stuff, and always felt a little disappointed -- they inevitably work, but seem insubstantial for the price. (I know, I'm paying for the "IP" and someone else to figure things out, and for the ease of using a harness rather than splicing wires.) But his setup was really nice -- it not only worked, but it felt very substantial and really made the wiring connections plug and play.

You'll note in the install photo, I'm using the "aux" in, instead of the multichannel in. This is because the wiring was easier to fit in the space available, that way -- and because since the HiFi head unit is pretty flat in terms of frequency response, I didn't need the "input setup" test tone to be accessible.

(Only mod I made to the harness was to add two right angle RCA plug adapters to the pine level signal cables, to ensure there was no tension on the cable, in my mounting situation.)

I'm considering the following alternate configs, as test cases, for later. Remember I have the stock hifi system (sail tweaters and door mids, all on one speaker wire with an in line passive crossover from the factory; and underseat "woofers"; and a couple of rears).

a)

- skip input setup
- no subs
- Front 2-way: subsonic filter at 50Hz at 24dB, Hi/Lo filter at 200Hz at 6dB
- rear 1-way: 150hz at 24dB

b)

- skip input setup
- Sub: 2 subs, subsonic filter at 50Hz at 24dB
- Front 1-way: 200Hz at 6dB
- Rear 1-way: 150Hz at 24dB

[jeffb335]

everything you just said sounds like your car is set up pretty much the same as the E9X....minus the center channel? Your settings are similar to the ones Im using (except for my amps and sub of course) and similar to the ones posted in this thread. .

So the big question is:

How does it sound?

[nato-main-man-5am]

Originally Posted by jeffb335

everything you just said sounds like your car is set up pretty much the same as the E9X....minus the center channel? Your settings are similar to the ones Im using (except for my amps and sub of course) and similar to the ones posted in this thread. .

So the big question is:

How does it sound?

It is a remarkable improvement to the hifi oem system. Sure I'd prefer the stereo image to be up where the windshield is, and not spread out over the hood and into the engine bay. But it is a very good image. And sure I'm love to have more visceral but still accurate bass on acoustic recordings. But it is night and day different, and since I bought used and did DIY, it was less than 500 bucks all in.

However if one was ONLy doing this, and didn't want to go further, and was paying retail, I'd say spend the 800 bucks on the h/k (top hifi aka logic 7) system and be happy. You'll have a harder time upgrading, but you'll have better than hifi drivers and some EQ and processing.

But if one wants to do more than this, or you didn't have the option to get the h/k system (like a cpo purchase) it's a great start. And much easier to incrementally improve as time and opportunity allow. I think my next step will be replacing the underseat woofers. I'm not a bass head, but I like an acoustic bass to have more body. And at some point the door and sail drivers may get upgraded, too. Depending on the specs of the replacements, that may mean adding an amp.

But I am very very impressed by what this thing can do.

[nato-main-man-5am]

One thing that I can't figure out is why one does the audio testing set up when the car is stationer and off, rather than driving down the road... Which is the environment in which one listens.... And should equalize for.... Right?

[jeffb335]

way to many variables when you are driving......probably impossible. You cant take precise frequency response measurements with random loud noise going on.

[nato-main-man-5am]

That makes sense but maybe the engine should on and idling....

[taibanl]

^ Thats how I did mine.

[nato-main-man-5am]

Interesting. Did you try it both ways? Did you measure both results?

[taibanl]

I have tried it both ways but not measured both results. Kaigoss would say do it with the engine off but I wanted the calibration based on idle as the noise floor.

I can only say that right now I have outstanding results (with a little curve tweaking on the 31 band). Not sure how different they would be the other way.

[taibanl]

Oh BTW, there's another reason. With the alternator on, I am pushing more voltage to the amps which makes it the more "realistic" listening configuration.

[jeffb335]

When I checked my 335 with the engine running, the RTA showed a big peak at about 125hz and some more smaller peaks and valleys at various harmonics .....I would imagine that the MS-8 would see these when it runs its sweeps and try to compensate by EQing those frequencies.

Those frequencies change with engine speed however (not to mention all the tire/wind noise) and so what you would be left with is a bunch of peaks and dips in your frequency response once you are under way..... Most likely a big dip at 125hz.

What you are talking about is something more like noise cancelling headphones or something like that......and thats not what the MS-8 is......

I dont think you can really truly compensate for road/engine noise, but you can overcome it.......but who knows, I could be wrong, but it doesnt seem very possible to me, not with current technology.

[nato-main-man-5am]

Anyone notice an visceral, audible "thump" when the unit powers down? I was thinking it was bad grounding, but understand it may just be a "feature" of this unit.

[taibanl]

Nathan:

Yes, when I had my sub on a dedicated sub channel it had a BIG pop on power down

DO NOT set up your under seats as subs, they are woofers, not subwoofers. Additionally there is no time alignment for an ms8 sub channel so you will be defeating one of its great features

I use 200hz as the low/hi cross up front

Andy from jbl recommends steep 24dB slopes

Go over to diymobileaudio and read the ms-8 thread. Also read andy w's rules for the ms-8

[nato-main-man-5am]

I am currently runing the underseat woofers as the woofer half of a two way setup, so nothing is called a sub in the jbl config. I don't recall whether I used the 24db slope on my most recent calibration.

For those still having the echo problem, it looks like jbl has issued a fix, though it requires manual intervention and the remote to be accessible.

http://ms8-eu.jbl.com/installation-d...delay%20MS.pdf

This page contains the new firmware:

http://ms8-eu.jbl.com/installation.html

[jeffb335]

Looks like Im going to need to find a home for the remote and the display.....Ive got some serious bluetooth echo going on....


With regards to my settings, I listened to Andy W's advice and went higher with my crossovers... 80hz and 200hz .....SUCCESS!!! Bass is full and solid but doesnt smear to the back like it would in a conventional system....

With the MS-8, Ive had to throw much of what I thought I knew about car audio out the window.....

[nato-main-man-5am]

You have the crossover between the underseat woofers and the doors/pillars at 200 and you roll off the underseat woofers at 80?

[taibanl]

Originally Posted by Nathan_h

You have the crossover between the underseat woofers and the doors/pillars at 200 and you roll off the underseat woofers at 80?

I presume he has a sub; those are the same points i use

[jeffb335]

Yes, I have a sub for below 80.

[nato-main-man-5am]

Ah I see. I don't have a sub (yet?).

[jeffb335]

I can confirm that the above firmware update to "fix" the blutooth echo works perfect. Im just going to leave the display in my center console and the remote in the storage hole behind the shifter. Now when I get an incoming call I just have to press one button on the remote and all of the ms-8 delay processing is bypassed..... No more echo.