Flash vs Piggyback - Where we stand today.

boom · 01-23-2011, 06:10 PM

Knock is another word for detonation. Detonation occurs when a shock is faster than the speed of sound. A sonic boom is heard when an object travels faster than the speed of sound. Similarly a sound is produced from knock in an engine. A knock sensor is a sensitive microphone that is tuned to the specific frequency of detonation. The dme gets an input from this sensor and retards timing, closes the throttle, adds fuel, and opens the wastegates, or dome combination of the former based on the situation. Cobb says the leave all of the knock sensor response like the factory setup. They alter the running parameters to avoid knock. The procede registers the knock events via the canbus and reduces its ignition and boost aggression.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianMN

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuo

Just curious, How would one go about detecting knock?
How does the DME detect it? Do all tunes rely on just the DME to predict knock?
I know some tunes are retroactive and some proactive when it comes to timing adjustments, just curious how the system goes about detecting/prediction knock.

The knock sensor.

mtlr · 01-23-2011, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BzzzBom

GIAC>COBB>JB3>Procede IMO

Any real engineer would laugh at the JB3.

Edit: The JB4 is certainly an upgrade.

BrianMN · 01-23-2011, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtlr

Any real engineer would laugh at the JB3.

Edit: The JB4 is certainly an upgrade.

But still a mile away from being a 'proper' tuning solution.

Clap135 · 01-23-2011, 07:20 PM

Its more along the line of an electronic boost controller that coppied CAN.

fisherbln · 01-23-2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mtlr

Any real engineer would laugh at the JB3.

Edit: The JB4 is certainly an upgrade.

Be careful or they'll call you a fanboi too. That seems to be what happens when you say anything bad about either the JB3 or the JB4.

Alan l. · 01-23-2011, 08:04 PM

Now that we have timing logs from the Procede as well the Accessport. What are the thoughts about what we are seeing in regards to the JB3/4's position about it not being needed?

I'm just curious since we have another reference point now (Cobb).

Alan

boom · 01-23-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Now that we have timing logs from the Procede as well the Accessport. What are the thoughts about what we are seeing in regards to the JB3/4's position about it not being needed?

I'm just curious since we have another reference point now (Cobb).

Alan

I don't think terry's position has ever been that timing retard isn't needed. He stated that the jb3 had "another means for influencing timing" than CPA offsetting. In any event the dme in this car is absolutely phenomenal. To be able to more tha double factory boost for thousands of miles and not blow sky high is incredible.

BrianMN · 01-23-2011, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan l.

Now that we have timing logs from the Procede as well the Accessport. What are the thoughts about what we are seeing in regards to the JB3/4's position about it not being needed?

I'm just curious since we have another reference point now (Cobb).

Alan

What we need is simply to have similarly modded cars on the same day/location. It's simple...just not that easy.

You can compare logs from cars of equal mods and HP, but at different locations and climate it's not really apples to apples.

atlharry · 01-24-2011, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianMN

What we need is simply to have similarly modded cars on the same day/location. It's simple...just not that easy.

You can compare logs from cars of equal mods and HP, but at different locations and climate it's not really apples to apples.

It's also a matter of cost. There will always be users that overlook shortcomings in favor of saving money... even if it means sacrificing the longevity of their engines (mental note: never ever ever EVER buy an off lease 335). I mean seriously... JB+?!?!? REALLY?!?!

I cringe every time I see a thread like, "Just got a JB+, how high can I turn the knob?"

tscdennab · 01-24-2011, 07:32 AM

JB4 and Procede are extremely similar, despite the marketing. People with no technical knowledge will succumb to marketing, but the reality is that they are very similar except the CPS offsetting of the Procede which not full timing control.

BrianMN · 01-24-2011, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tscdennab

JB4 and Procede are extremely similar, despite the marketing. People with no technical knowledge will succumb to marketing, but the reality is that they are very similar except the CPS offsetting of the Procede which not full timing control.

OpenFlash · 01-24-2011, 10:55 AM

Lol

Clap135 · 01-24-2011, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tscdennab

JB4 and Procede are extremely similar, despite the marketing. People with no technical knowledge will succumb to marketing, but the reality is that they are very similar except the CPS offsetting of the Procede which not full timing control.

Really?

themyst · 01-24-2011, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atlharry

It's also a matter of cost. There will always be users that overlook shortcomings in favor of saving money... even if it means sacrificing the longevity of their engines (mental note: never ever ever EVER buy an off lease 335). I mean seriously... JB+?!?!? REALLY?!?!

I cringe every time I see a thread like, "Just got a JB+, how high can I turn the knob?"

I feel lucky to have a demo cpo unmolested

enrita · 01-24-2011, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tscdennab

JB4 and Procede are extremely similar, despite the marketing. People with no technical knowledge will succumb to marketing, but the reality is that they are very similar except the CPS offsetting of the Procede which not full timing control.

shifterboy45 · 01-24-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mani009

Throttle closure is necessary to control overboost conditions in Cobb's flash so why would they allow something fundamentally required by their flash to work properly easily removed on their customer's request?

couldnt of said it better ..

+1000

Clap135 · 01-24-2011, 11:51 AM

I already answered this question, because with ATR cobb is no longer responisble for what you choose to do with your car, you also dial in the speed of boost, so it works on your car and wont over shoot to begin with.

Potty_Pants · 01-24-2011, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BzzzBom

GIAC>COBB>JB3>Procede IMO

LOL Dinan didnt even make the cut !

ppp

BobS · 01-24-2011, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by etiliko

This isn't an AP charateristic, it is the OEM ECU logic!

Exactly! Doesn't the AP and GIAC flash work as the DME was designed? Or am I wrong in saying this?

boom · 01-24-2011, 04:46 PM

Clap,
Have you tried your meth with the stg 1 tune. Any differences in the timing, afr logged with the AP? I know boost is low. But it for a car with stock intake an ic in the summer, meth is a good option at 13 psi.

Clap135 · 01-24-2011, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boom

Clap,
Have you tried your meth with the stg 1 tune. Any differences in the timing, afr logged with the AP? I know boost is low. But it for a car with stock intake an ic in the summer, meth is a good option at 13 psi.

havnt tried it. I wont change anything though. Just like running meth on a stock car wont get you more timing, or richer af ratios.

COBB Tuning · 01-24-2011, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enrita

That was knock. But there are different degrees of it.

As well as different types of actual events that get covered under the "knock" moniker. Knock and pre-ignition are two very different things

Best regards,
Lance

01-23-2011, 07:20 PM	#48
Clap135 Brigadier General 102 Rep 3,460 Posts Drives: 2009 N54 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sticky's Mom House iTrader: (1)	Its more along the line of an electronic boost controller that coppied CAN.
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01-23-2011, 08:04 PM	#50
Alan l. Major General 5437 Rep 8,809 Posts Drives: 2020 F95 X5M Competition Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: United States iTrader: (9)	Now that we have timing logs from the Procede as well the Accessport. What are the thoughts about what we are seeing in regards to the JB3/4's position about it not being needed? I'm just curious since we have another reference point now (Cobb). Alan __________________
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01-24-2011, 07:32 AM	#54
tscdennab Banned 151 Rep 1,809 Posts Drives: BMW 335i Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Europe iTrader: (0) Garage List 2008 BMW [6.24]	JB4 and Procede are extremely similar, despite the marketing. People with no technical knowledge will succumb to marketing, but the reality is that they are very similar except the CPS offsetting of the Procede which not full timing control.
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01-24-2011, 10:55 AM	#56
OpenFlash 1737 Rep 17,960 Posts Drives: A Lot Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: SF Bay, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2018 Ducati Panigal ... [0.00] 2016 Mazda CX5 [0.00] 2017 Aprilia Tuono ... [0.00] 2019 BMW M2 Competi ... [0.00] 2015 BMW M5 Competi ... [10.00] 2016 Ducati XDiavel S [0.00] 2016 AMG GT S [0.00] 2011 Ferrari 458 It ... [0.00] 2017 Charger Hellcat [0.00] 2015 KTM Super Duke ... [0.00] 2016 KTM RC390 [0.00]	Lol
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01-24-2011, 11:51 AM	#61
Clap135 Brigadier General 102 Rep 3,460 Posts Drives: 2009 N54 Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Sticky's Mom House iTrader: (1)	I already answered this question, because with ATR cobb is no longer responisble for what you choose to do with your car, you also dial in the speed of boost, so it works on your car and wont over shoot to begin with.
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01-24-2011, 04:46 PM	#64
boom My X5d tows my spec miata to the track. 74 Rep 1,254 Posts Drives: 2010 X5 35d Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: USA iTrader: (0)	Meth AP stg 1 Clap, Have you tried your meth with the stg 1 tune. Any differences in the timing, afr logged with the AP? I know boost is low. But it for a car with stock intake an ic in the summer, meth is a good option at 13 psi.
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