E90Post
 


Extreme Powerhouse
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Organic or ceramic clutch which one???



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-16-2010, 07:17 AM   #23
Former_Boosted_IS
Major General
307
Rep
5,175
Posts

Drives: 4 Wheels
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Planet Earth!

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by farbmw View Post
I am a little confused, while looking at what ACT has to offer, I don't understand the pricing, they have 3 clutches to choose from.

One is the street performance clutch which is good for ~467 lb of torque going for around $550 US and the other two are 4 puck and 6 puck race clutches which are cheaper at ~$465 US and both are good for ~560 lb of torque.

My question is why is the 4 and 6 puck clutches cheaper then the street performance? Because of more material?

Also putting in a better clutch, wouldn't that increase your torque? And right now the stock HP of the 335i and the torque numbers are almost the same (I think correct me if I am wrong), so if you are able to increase your HP to 500 then the torque would be lower then the HP but not by that much?
Unless your clutch is slipping, then you won't put down more power because of a clutch. It simply assures that the output from the engine successfully mates with your transmission without slip.
Appreciate 0
      11-16-2010, 07:18 AM   #24
Former_Boosted_IS
Major General
307
Rep
5,175
Posts

Drives: 4 Wheels
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Planet Earth!

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by farbmw View Post
Nice! And you are able to use this as a daily driver?
Twin Discs are pricey but very, very streetable.
Appreciate 0
      11-16-2010, 07:30 AM   #25
dzenno
Banned
Canada
268
Rep
5,876
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Feb 2006

iTrader: (1)

Former, have you ever done a burnout or took your clutch setup for any kind of racing?
Appreciate 0
      11-16-2010, 07:36 AM   #26
Former_Boosted_IS
Major General
307
Rep
5,175
Posts

Drives: 4 Wheels
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Planet Earth!

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dzenno View Post
Former, have you ever done a burnout or took your clutch setup for any kind of racing?
I have done quite a few launches among other things. What part are you curious about?
Appreciate 0
      11-16-2010, 07:49 AM   #27
dzenno
Banned
Canada
268
Rep
5,876
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Feb 2006

iTrader: (1)

Just curious in general so with the twin disk which material is on the flywheel side and which on the pressure plate?
Appreciate 0
      11-16-2010, 08:00 AM   #28
R1000K3
Major
R1000K3's Avatar
United_States
55
Rep
1,311
Posts

Drives: 335i MT
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Former_Boosted_IS View Post
Uhhh, the crank torque will be considerably higher than wheel torque by probably 15%
Objection, the torque on the wheels is always much higher than crank torque since the gearbox and final gearing is used to multiply torque. The engine spins faster than the wheels on any gear, hence the wheel torque is higher than engine torque. The torque on the wheels are even higher than the crank torque on 6th gear even though this gear is less than 1 to 1, since the final gearing is about 3 to 1. In case the gearing on 1st gear is like 3 to 1 the total gearing is then about 9 to 1. In this case (first gear pull) the torque on the wheels is about 9 times higher than the crank torque. Tyre diameter also comes into play...

The 15% you mention is the estimated drive-line loss. It means the horsepower on the wheels is 15% lower than on the crank. In case the gearbox gearing actually was 1 to 1 (like the fifth gear is if I remember correct)) and the final drive was 1 to 1 (which it isn't on any car known by man) the wheel torque would be 15% less than crank torque.

Just my 2c
Appreciate 0
      11-16-2010, 08:03 AM   #29
Former_Boosted_IS
Major General
307
Rep
5,175
Posts

Drives: 4 Wheels
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Planet Earth!

iTrader: (15)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dzenno View Post
Just curious in general so with the twin disk which material is on the flywheel side and which on the pressure plate?
Ah ok. The segmented kevlar disc (unsprung hub) faces the flywheel, then midplate, then full face ceramic plate (sprung hub).













Appreciate 0
      11-16-2010, 08:12 AM   #30
Penn999
Lieutenant Colonel
Penn999's Avatar
49
Rep
1,661
Posts

Drives: 335i coupe
Join Date: May 2010
Location: VA

iTrader: (3)

Is that what you are using?
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2010, 09:06 AM   #31
dzenno
Banned
Canada
268
Rep
5,876
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Feb 2006

iTrader: (1)

Interesting point on torque at the engine/crank vs wheels...it is completely valid...whp is indeed what sees drivetrain losses
Appreciate 0
      11-20-2010, 09:41 AM   #32
dzenno
Banned
Canada
268
Rep
5,876
Posts

Drives:
Join Date: Feb 2006

iTrader: (1)

Excellent read on why torque at the engine is less than at the wheels (opposite of whp)...

http://danielmiessler.com/study/horsepower/

Oh and with upgraded turbos if you just manage to extend/hold boost longer to say 6500rpm instead of ~5600rpm-5800rpm which seems to be peak whp on stockers you can really see how much an organic clutch will hold in terms of whp, so same torque as before but held longer...example:

On stock turbos say you hold 400wtq at 5600rpm :
Whp = (400 * 5600)/5252 = 426whp

Now, imagine you upgrade turbos and now can extend that same torque curve by 1000rpm, here's what you get:
Whp = (400 * 6600)/5252 = 502whp

This is why clutches are rated for torque holding capacity and not whp (hp is calculated based on RPMs)...

So, theoretically speaking, on N54s with a top RPM of 7000rpm, if you managed to tune your car to hold ACT's claimed organic disc holding power of 456tq what does that mean in terms of PEAK whp possible on their organic on this TUNE:

Whp = (456 * 7000)/5252 = 607whp

Now all we need to do is find means of shifting the torque curve In all honesty I don't think these numbers are realistic but I wouldn't be worried about this ACT clutch even with a 35 nitrous shot....launching hard a lot will destroy any clutch prematurely...

I'll report back on the ACT clutch as soon as I'm through my break in..

Last edited by dzenno; 11-20-2010 at 09:57 AM..
Appreciate 0
      11-21-2010, 01:46 AM   #33
Enicinitas
First Lieutenant
United_States
13
Rep
322
Posts

Drives: Gray Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Left Coast

iTrader: (8)

Subscribed!
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:15 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST