[secretsquirrel]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

At least you were wise enough to inquire. The shortcut way is the piggyback route.

I do not consider Dinan, GIAC, ESS ,and Cobb to be shortcuts, but authentic ways to interact with the DME rather than manipulating the ECU.

Meanwhile my procede has better HP, torque, features, and is probably just as safe as your flash. The only difference is that you're leaving 30 HP on the table and paid 3x as much. I'd love for you to enumerate the ways that the procede is deficient, however I'm sure you'll just say generic things such as "indirect access" "manipulate". Lol. I've never trashed you, or anyone for going the Dinan route, it's differestockrooms for different folks. But itd take more patience than what I have to let you, with an inferior, outdated and overpriced product get on your soapbox.

[Black Gold]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

What does the statement...



....Have anything to do with proving it with hard data ? What is there in that statement that I have to prove ?

I am interesting in hearing how you interpreted that statement in order to conclude with the request you asking for.....

you serious?

the implication that dinan is the safest way, and "shortcuts" which refers to other brands of tuning are not as safe is clear as day from your comment.

again, how is dinan safer than the "shortcuts" you speak of?

if you are giong to make that statement, back it up please.

[Shellacked135i]

Manipulation and trickery comments are quite funny.

When they have infact more safety built in and the ability to recognize and adjust for different conditions, such as elevation, octane, and more modifications. Not only that but it follows several parameters including oil temp, coolant temp, intake temp, knock threshold ETC extrapolates that information to a safe ignition and boost standpoint. You cannot say the same about flashes as they work in a different way, usually load related and tuned for certain octane and modifications. Iam not against flashes either, they do what they do well too, however the negativity towards procede is uncalled for, clearly you have been misinformed.
I dont want to sit here and sound like some Procede fanboi, but the ignorance represented about the tune is blasphemy. Do some research.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

Meanwhile my procede has better HP, torque, features, and is probably just as safe as your flash. The only difference is that you're leaving 30 HP on the table and paid 3x as much. I'd love for you to enumerate the ways that the procede is deficient, however I'm sure you'll just say generic things such as "indirect access" "manipulate". Lol. I've never trashed you, or anyone for going the Dinan route, it's differestockrooms for different folks. But itd take more patience than what I have to let you, with an inferior, outdated and overpriced product get on your soapbox.

Once upon a time I almost purchased ProCede and JB3 . As a matter of fact I had a JB3 offered to me for free with installation. I declined it. Their results in performance per individual experience is profound. But again, HP is not everything, and that is the key word for those that go the piggyback route and what seems to be the most important thing.

Procede and JB+ are not deficient by any means, its just not for me for many reasons. Perhaps in the future when they come out with a device like Cobb's AP for flashing the ECU it will be a different story.

As far as Mods, it is Dinan all the way, I just simply like the exclusivity, engineering, quality, and unified support of all products on my car with convienient access to a Dinan dealer.

[Rotorocious]

Form<Function
Enjoy polishing your engine bay.
Exclusivity? Buy an M car for gods sake already.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by KennyPowers

you serious?

the implication that dinan is the safest way, and "shortcuts" which refers to other brands of tuning are not as safe is clear as day from your comment.

again, how is dinan safer than the "shortcuts" you speak of?

if you are giong to make that statement, back it up please.

Originally Posted by Buraq

I do not consider Dinan, GIAC, ESS ,and Cobb to be shortcuts, but authentic ways for tunning, rather than manipulating the ECU "IMO" .

As you can see Dinan is not the only one catagorised as being the "safest" way which does not denote that piggybacks are not safe.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by Rotorocious

Form<Function
Enjoy polishing your engine bay.
Exclusivity? Buy an M car for gods sake already.

Almost bought an M3, didnt like the torque, and its a gass guzzler, so I settle for the 335i.

[secretsquirrel]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

Once upon a time I almost purchased ProCede and JB3 . As a matter of fact I had a JB3 offered to me for free with installation. I declined it. Their results in performance per individual experience is profound. But again, HP is not everything, and that is the key word for those that go the piggyback route and what seems to be the most important thing.

Procede and JB+ are not deficient by any means, its just not for me for many reasons. Perhaps in the future when they come out with a device like Cobb's AP for flashing the ECU it will be a different story.

As far as Mods, it is Dinan all the way, I just simply like the exclusivity, engineering, quality, and unified support of all products on my car with convienient access to a Dinan dealer.

I can agree with at least part of your post. HP is not everything. The main reason I went with a procede instead of a jB product is because of the safety features. Like Shellacked135i pointed out, the ability to control boost and timing based on external conditions (temp, gas quality, etc) is huge in my book especially when you consider that most people get their car tuned once a year. I've watched the my autotune setting change when I get different types of gasses and different temperatures, so that's why I balk when you state that you flash happens to be safer, when it cant do any of the aforementioned things.

As I mentioned above, HP is not my major concern. Safety and longevity is. Like many others here, I purchased my car and plan to drive it for another 5 years. I think my chances of doing so are just as good, if not better than you do. My current autotune boost target is 14psi, which is probably just wbout 1.5 psi more than yours (if you are Dinan s1). And more importantly, the logs from my car look great, as I use to check them in the beginning to get used to the autotune tendancies.

Like I said above, I'm not the kind of dude that bashes others for making different decisions that I. We all have different needs, but I don't like it when people baselessly throw rocks when they're the one who's actually living in a glass house.

[Shellacked135i]

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

I can agree with at least part of your post. HP is not everything. The main reason I went with a procede instead of a jB product is because of the safety features. Like Shellacked135i pointed out, the ability to control boost and timing based on external conditions (temp, gas quality, etc) is huge in my book especially when you consider that most people get their car tuned once a year. I've watched the my autotune setting change when I get different types of gasses and different temperatures, so that's why I balk when you state that you flash happens to be safer, when it cant do any of the aforementioned things.

As I mentioned above, HP is not my major concern. Safety and longevity is. Like many others here, I purchased my car and plan to drive it for another 5 years. I think my chances of doing so are just as good, if not better than you do. My current autotune boost target is 14psi, which is probably just wbout 1.5 psi more than yours (if you are Dinan s1). And more importantly, the logs from my car look great, as I use to check them in the beginning to get used to the autotune tendancies.

Like I said above, I'm not the kind of dude that bashes others for making different decisions that I. We all have different needs, but I don't like it when people baselessly throw rocks when they're the one who's actually living in a glass house.

Most of things that are said that put a bad taste in my mouth is that piggybacks are all labeled as the same, when BMS products, Vishnu, and whoever else is out there differ in all there own ways. I've used BMS products and went to Vishnu, the reasons should be obvious but some people dont see it. Instead they jump on a bandwagon of misconceptions or label each of the piggybacks as the same, when they infact have a lot to offer and differ. This doesnt mean I'm entirely against people that pay for Dinan products. The product is fine, but to me doesnt have enough value. I dont think there is anymore to be said. Enjoy your cars, have fun.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by Shellacked135i

Manipulation and trickery comments are quite funny.

When they have infact more safety built in and the ability to recognize and adjust for different conditions, such as elevation, octane, and more modifications. Not only that but it follows several parameters including oil temp, coolant temp, intake temp, knock threshold ETC extrapolates that information to a safe ignition and boost standpoint. You cannot say the same about flashes as they work in a different way, usually load related and tuned for certain octane and modifications. Iam not against flashes either, they do what they do well too, however the negativity towards procede is uncalled for, clearly you have been misinformed.
I dont want to sit here and sound like some Procede fanboi, but the ignorance represented about the tune is blasphemy. Do some research.

Its not ignorance involved here it is choice. It seems many of you are misunderstanding me, and that misunderstanding is because you have prejudice to think I am against Procede and JuiceBox because I am mostly inclinded to Dinan. Your wrong.

When I excluded the renown piggybacks from the status of "safest" I would like to know when since it denotes them of not being safe or would it denote a lesser degree ?

Lets start with disclaimers of each company :

• Burger Tuninng TAC
  
• Vishnu Tuning TAC
  
• Dinan TAC

Which tuner based on their TAC is the "safest" way to go ?

[Shellacked135i]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

Its not ignorance involved here it is choice. It seems many of you are misunderstanding me, and that misunderstanding is because you have prejudice to think I am against Procede and JuiceBox because I am mostly inclinded to Dinan. Your wrong.

When I excluded the renown piggybacks from the status of "safest" I would like to know when since it denotes them of not being safe or would it denote a lesser degree ?

Lets start with disclaimers of each company :

• Burger Tuninng TAC
  
• Vishnu Tuning TAC
  
• Dinan TAC

Which tuner based on their TAC is the "safest" way to go ?

AS a tuner myself, and tuning many cars for years, I can assure you that looking at their disclaimers is not how you justify how a tune is safe. ITs simply based off how they function. The way the procede functions is very safe, and the autotune feature is quite conservative and a proactive approach. Flash tunes are great, but they are tuned either very conservative, OR if professionally tuned they are only good for the mods,octane,elevation,ETC at hand (UNLESS there are other features available to compensate for which vary from tune to tune). This is not to discredit flashes as they do work well, again depending on the tune car and platform. The point was, piggybacks are being labeled as not justifiably safe (simply because you didnt mention them). It was your post that made it appear this way, so if your simply want to clear that up, its all good. You like Dinan its all good, I liked Dinan too when I first looked into options for this car. My experience and past experience have lead me to where I'am currently. There is no right or wrong per say.

There are a lot of people here choosing one tune or another based on misconceptions, its not necessarily YOU who is doing so, but there are others that are.

Edit- FWIW I do not agree with how the JB line up functions in terms of safety.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

Like I said above, I'm not the kind of dude that bashes others for making different decisions that I. We all have different needs, but I don't like it when people baselessly throw rocks when they're the one who's actually living in a glass house.

Lets start of with I agree with you response in regards to your procede and those are the things I have researched from their site, dyno results, and feedback. I have heard nothing but wonderful things about Procede. I have two locals who use Proced v4. If I had a choice between Procede or JB3/4 I would go with Procede as it would be the safest way to go with what they offer.

It is often that people get caught in cross fires, then things get heated, and emotions become the driver. Keep in mind the agressive flaming started from the opposition, I laid back and tried to ignore, and was told to ignore, but I couldnt just sit here and watch my thread get abused without atleast flexing.

Originally Posted by Shellacked135i

....This doesnt mean I'm entirely against people that pay for Dinan products. The product is fine, but to me doesnt have enough value....

Perhaps on an incrimental stage when compared to stand alone products that do offer more value in performance you have a point, however when Dinan products become absolute there is more value from Dinan IMO.

[Shellacked135i]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

Lets start of with I agree with you response in regards to your procede and those are the things I have researched from their site, dyno results, and feedback. I have heard nothing but wonderful things about Procede. I have two locals who use Proced v4. If I had a choice between Procede or JB3/4 I would go with Procede as it would be the safest way to go with what they offer.

It is often that people get caught in cross fires, then things get heated, and emotions become the driver. Keep in mind the agressive flaming started from the opposition, I laid back and tried to ignore, and was told to ignore, but I couldnt just sit here and watch my thread get abused without atleast flexing.




Perhaps on an incrimental stage when compared to stand alone products that do offer more value in performance you have a point, however when Dinan products become absolute there is more value from Dinan IMO.

Value is an opinion, I agree. To each his own. Thanks for clearing everything up.

[vase330]

Originally Posted by creaminz

Fuck the performance gain or benefit, that intake is just BEAUTIFUL!

I bought that sucker too. I had all the other toys on the car already, but after seeing it on someones car I had to have it.

People on here keep bitching and moaning about the price etc. They don't like it, they can go jump in the lake, I bought one so what? When you go buying designer clothes, you don't seat there saying, "Eh Walmart or K-Mart would have done the job...." Same shit, you like it, can afford it, go for it, and all those who don't or wouldn't like one STFU.

I have bought far more costlier things that I couldn't justify, but its all about if it floats my boat. People pay prices for M3s, Ferraris etc that there is no real justification for on a daily basis, and I bet you these guys wouldn't argue as much with those choices. My neighbor once asked me WTF do you have 2 cars when you live alone? I look at her and just smiled told her because I can and I want to. We live in a free country, do what pleases you people be damned!

[vase330]

Originally Posted by Shellacked135i

Most of things that are said that put a bad taste in my mouth is that piggybacks are all labeled as the same, when BMS products, Vishnu, and whoever else is out there differ in all there own ways. I've used BMS products and went to Vishnu, the reasons should be obvious but some people dont see it. Instead they jump on a bandwagon of misconceptions or label each of the piggybacks as the same, when they infact have a lot to offer and differ. This doesnt mean I'm entirely against people that pay for Dinan products. The product is fine, but to me doesnt have enough value. I dont think there is anymore to be said. Enjoy your cars, have fun.

Am like you, except I started with the original Dinan stage 1 then 2 then ... after going full circle the last item I got was the Dinan CAI works very well with all the other toys on the car, and is beautiful to boot.

[vase330]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

...

Perhaps on an incrimental stage when compared to stand alone products that do offer more value in performance you have a point, however when Dinan products become absolute there is more value from Dinan IMO.

Dude get what you want and screw what anyone else thinks. Nobody has to approve, but yourself. Your car, your tastes, your decisions, your money. The lest of us should STFU and just ask for your reviews or impressions.

[XJS]

Originally Posted by secretsquirrel

Meanwhile my procede has better HP, torque, features, and is probably just as safe as your flash. The only difference is that you're leaving 30 HP on the table and paid 3x as much. I'd love for you to enumerate the ways that the procede is deficient, however I'm sure you'll just say generic things such as "indirect access" "manipulate". Lol. I've never trashed you, or anyone for going the Dinan route, it's differestockrooms for different folks. But itd take more patience than what I have to let you, with an inferior, outdated and overpriced product get on your soapbox.

Wow, how did you get to this point from a guy wanting to install the Dinan intake.

[Alext]

People are going on about the price of that intake, but it's cheap compared to this Gruppe M one for the N54: http://e89.zpost.com/forums/showthre...ghlight=intake

[Veeemdoubleu]

Highway Robbery lol

[san6279]

The lack of maturity on this forum is disappointing.

[shortseller]

Originally Posted by san6279

The lack of maturity on this forum is disappointing.

I agree, it's a bit of a "sandbox mentality" around here when it comes to certain topics and sometimes passion goes the way of a brain fart!

[biz77]

Originally Posted by maxnix

Actually, HP is not anything but a calculated number. It is torque that counts as power.

So if I place a 5 foot-long breaker bar on a bolt and then place my 200 lbs body at the end of the breaker bar and there is zero movement of the bolt, then how much "power" is being made from this 1,000 ft. lbs of torque?

Torque =/= power. Power is work/time. Torque is a component of horsepower, but is useless without RPM.