[BQTuning]

Why does Cobb, JB4, ESS, Giac, and PROcede need different maps for different octane gas ? I know that PROcede has an auto tunning fuction for this but it still refers to mutiple maps modes.

Why cant one stage of a map auto adjust to the fuel that is being used ?

Doesnt the stock 335i's DME automatically can tell the difference of the octane gas being used and then auto adjusts to meet the performance needs ?

Before please do not flame, bash, high jack my thread. I want a contructive explanation

[skinrock]

I thought Procede just autotunes on every map by default, but you can turn it off if you want. JB4 is similar - there are a couple static maps, and autotuning is just a separate map altogether.

I don't think it's really a need for different maps because of the octane, because octane is only one factor. They are providing different maps so that people with the supporting mods (FBO, meth, etc.) can run higher boost when it's safe. If you want to adjust automatically to the octane and your supporting mods, that's what autotuning is for.

Another take on it is: if you want to run JB4 Map 7 (requires 100 octane) but only use 93 octane and what it to autotune down - what's the benefit over just using Map 2?

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

JB4 also has autotune.

Be that as it may the maps are optimized for that octane level and also modifications, plain and simple.

A proactive tuning approach is much more ideal then relying on failsafes of the stock DME to counteract knock.

Your Dinan tune is meant for 91 octane minimum if I recall, its leaving performance on the table but its a conservative approach which is what they are after.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

JB4 also has autotune.

Be that as it may the maps are optimized for that octane level and also modifications, plain and simple.

A proactive tuning approach is much more ideal then relying on failsafes of the stock DME to counteract knock.

Your Dinan tune is meant for 91 octane minimum if I recall, its leaving performance on the table but its a conservative approach which is what they are after.

The Dinan tune is dependant of the DME to make the performance adjustments per the octane level of gas being used whereas the Dinan software is in sync with the DME.

So 91, 93 to race gas is optimized for any of the Dinan stage software automatically.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by BuraQ

The Dinan tune is dependant of the DME to make the performance adjustments per the octane level of gas being used whereas the Dinan software is in sync with the DME.

So 91, 93 to race gas is optimized for any of the Dinan stage software automatically.

You've been mislead somewhere. Dinan flash is similar to all other flashes except it doesnt increase as much boost as others.

The only benefit of race gas on a Dinan tune would be to ward off any potential knock there is no boost increase therefore no optimization of octane.

[Shellacked135i]

Dinan is flash just like any other. It is tuned for premium fuel. It runs bigger targets for boost fuel and load. They also did some back end work on the water pump to increase its speed per boost increase or so they say. Somewhere on here is the boost mapping of Dinan. It doesnt optimize with race fuel, you cant increase boost on Dinan tunes.

Other tunes have the potential for more boost, less boost taper, and REAL optimization of octane. which means the ability to increase boost for conditions, increase ignition timing as well.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

You've been mislead somewhere. Dinan flash is similar to all other flashes except it doesnt increase as much boost as others.

The only benefit of race gas on a Dinan tune would be to ward off any potential knock there is no boost increase therefore no optimization of octane.

Originally Posted by Shellacked135i

Dinan is flash just like any other. It is tuned for premium fuel. It runs bigger targets for boost fuel and load. They also did some back end work on the water pump to increase its speed per boost increase or so they say. Somewhere on here is the boost mapping of Dinan. It doesnt optimize with race fuel, you cant increase boost on Dinan tunes.

This is what Dinan has stated which is contrary to what you two are asserting:

A True Software Tune
The biggest difference between a true software tune like Dinan's Performance Software and a "piggyback box" is that all of the communications between the engine sensors and the engine management computer (DME) remain unaltered. This translates to properly returned fuel mixtures, Ignition timing and full map rescaling to keep everything in sync. Keeping an engine running at its best and with the most reliable power is what Dinan is all about.


Easy To Use
Don't worry about cutting wires, downloading maps for different octane levels or uninstalling before service. Just install and you are done! Add modifications and use different levels of octane without worry because the ECU will adapt to the changes, automatically leaving you to just enjoy your Dinan tuned BMW

http://www.dinancars.com/shop/D900-3...de.aspx#page=1

There is a big difference in power output with Dinan when using 100+ octane. This I know for a fact because I use the 100+ octane. Saying that the higher octane only benefits knock protecton is not correct. Of course mere words will prove nothing so I will post the dyno and 1/4 results vs 93 octane results.

Originally Posted by Shellacked135i

Other tunes have the potential for more boost, less boost taper, and REAL optimization of octane. which means the ability to increase boost for conditions, increase ignition timing as well.

I agree 100% with you here, however the OP is about the switching of different maps with these tunes to accommodate various octane levels rather than it being automatic within the tune itself.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Nothing you've posted shows where the tune increases boost and ignition and fuel to OPTIMIZE power and show the performance potential available. It will not increase boost for modifications, octane or conditions.

That is where the other tunes shine.

The Dinan tune runs the same boost no matter what octane you put in your car. (give or a take a PSI for poor conditions and elevation).

The only "adaptation" not to be confused with optimization is it will reduce ignition if knocking is present. (via the stock DME logic).

IF you have seen a boost in performance from higher octane its not cause of boost, it simply cause you are not knocking nearly as much.

Stock vehicles also go faster with higher octane, and again its not a boost increase, its simply reduces the potential to knock, and increases ignition to maximum allowed given in the load tables.

I will kindly leave this thread though. Everyone has their own opinions on how things work, I'm just letting you know how it really works.

[Shellacked135i]

You appear to be confused which is probably why you made a thread.

It would be best to understand how tunes work as they all function a little different.

I will first start with how the Cobb tune works.
The Cobb has load tables and targets for its maps. (just like the stock DME would), however, they are now altered from the flash).

In these tables are given parameters for boost fuel and ignition.

So they are all designed for certain octane levels on otherwise stock vehicles bringing out the most HP available safely with limiting the amount of knock. There is a certain point where increasing ignition wont increase power.

A tune like the JB4 simply increases boost and has other logic to control drivability of the car. It currently relies on the stock DME Logic to control ignition. In that stock DME logic are again load tables. In those tables are set fuel parameters boost and ignition. Since the Jb4 follows the stock dme logic for ignition it an only run the maximum amount of ignition allowed per the stock DME ignition tables based on whatever load the JB4 wants to target.

Its getting a little complicated sounding but its actually quite easier to understand if you have a tuning background.

GIAC function very similar to Cobb just like the stock DME. They target a load, and in those tables are boost fuel and ignition.

At any rate all you need to know is on any platform and tune that is searching for maximum HP in given conditions you will find maps based on modifications and octane.

I think where you become a little confused is the wording that Dinan uses which is very salesmen like in nature.

Their adaptations they are referring to is there way of saying it will not blow your motor because the factory DME will catch any knock prior.

You also have to consider there are other hidden tables and values that look at air intake temp, oil temp, coolant temp, and historical knock to determine boost levels as well.

Your main question however is why cant their be one map and the answer is there are so many conditions every vehicle deals with that you cant simply make one map.

Every map needs to start somewhere, with a starting ignition boost fuel table.

For one car 15 PSI might be just fine considering its running full bolt ons and 93 Octane but for another car that is otherwise stock on 91 octane that ignition and boost value would be too high.

Hope this helps clear things up.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

Nothing you've posted shows where the tune increases boost and ignition and fuel to OPTIMIZE power and show the performance potential available. It will not increase boost for modifications, octane or conditions.

I did not mention one word about increasing boost.

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

IF you have seen a boost in performance from higher octane its not cause of boost, it simply cause you are not knocking nearly as much.

Stock vehicles also go faster with higher octane, and again its not a boost increase, its simply reduces the potential to knock, and increases ignition to maximum allowed given in the load tables.

Like I said nothing in the OP mentions anything directly or indirectly about boost increase. Its very simple, why do the said tunes in the OP, perhaps with the exception of PROcede, have to use a specific map for a specific octane when the stock DME logic can already auto adjust/adapt to the higher octane fuels ?

A simple question turned into Dinan being in the spot light when I am trying to get an understanding of why these other tunes do not rely on the DME for this - which is a question within in itself.

I can only learn about other tunes based on the limited specifications they release on their websites, and their websites are not cutting it clear why this is so.

[BQTuning]

Originally Posted by Shellacked135i

You appear to be confused which is probably why you made a thread.........................Hope this helps clear things up.

Thanks, this is what I was looking forward to hear.

[sonyakova]

He brought up boost cuz that is the only way to optimize performance for your given octane and modifications. I think your question was answered by now. All the tunes function based off load. With a flash they change those values or add to them. With a Piggy back they dont change them but "trick" them so the car adds fuel changes ignition (on some tunes) and adds boost. There are many ways to make HP, which is why there are so many ways to go about it. Your Dinan flash tune function just like Giac or Cobb on most levels, it just runs less boost.