[jon@themshop]

I just counted my time slips.. made 28 passes that day!

[DLSJ5]

More pics here:

http://nyet.org/cars/images/gi/index.html

[DLSJ5]

[SoCal335i]

Originally Posted by Driver72

Don't think it does, the autos are a bit quicker than the manuals.

I dont agree with that. An auto always has more drivetrain loss.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by SoCal335i

I dont agree with that. An auto always has more drivetrain loss.

But better gearing and faster shifts.
I've run a couple manuals, both with more power than me, that should of walked me good, neither did.
I've also seen a couple videos online comparing the two, the auto pulls away a bit both times.
Granted they are VERY close, and maybe a very good running manual with a fast shifting driver could take the auto by a touch, but I'd say 90%+ of the time the auto will come out ahead.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by Driver72

But better gearing and faster shifts.
I've run a couple manuals, both with more power than me, that should of walked me good, neither did.
I've also seen a couple videos online comparing the two, the auto pulls away a bit both times.
Granted they are VERY close, and maybe a very good running manual with a fast shifting driver could take the auto by a touch, but I'd say 90%+ of the time the auto will come out ahead.

The autos are slightly quicker in the 1/4 mile because they can load the turbos before launching, and have some additional torque multiplication due to the torque converter. Most of the gain is used up well before the 1/8th mile so I'd expect the manual car to have a higher trap speed, and out accelerate the auto from the 1/8th mile to the 1/4 mark and beyond.

You should hunt around on dragtimes to see if the slips for 335s bear that out (I haven't checked).

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by jon@themshop

OK I am bored. Here are some random pics from Sunday.

Now that's a hot looking 335!

[CASHBY]

Originally Posted by Driver72

Don't think it does, the autos are a bit quicker than the manuals.

dont know how you made this assumption.... IIRC i pulled 1-2 car lengths on you everytime... maybe you got a faster 1/4 mile time than me but you also only ran 2 10ths faster than me and you had a 4 10ths faster 60ft...since my best one that day was like a 2.4 60ft...and when i got a 2.0 60ft i missed 2nd gear.

That was one of the first time me racing my car at the track so launching the car is a bit more tricky than an automatic, since all you do is floor it on auto and manual takes some driving skill....which I think i got it down now hopefully ahahah.

Once we get launch control on manuals, you will see a lot faster 60ft times...well we hope so

I have races several automatics from a roll and on the freeway and not one has beat me as of yet....

and if you are going to say its becuase you have exhaust... feel free to look at my exhaust that is on my car right now, it looks worse than the stock crushed bent exhaust. ahahhaah

[CASHBY]

Originally Posted by Driver72

But better gearing and faster shifts.
I've run a couple manuals, both with more power than me, that should of walked me good, neither did.
I've also seen a couple videos online comparing the two, the auto pulls away a bit both times.
Granted they are VERY close, and maybe a very good running manual with a fast shifting driver could take the auto by a touch, but I'd say 90%+ of the time the auto will come out ahead.

2 car lengths sounds like walking to me when I raced you..... the only time you got a chance to pull on me is when my car through a CEL and went into limp mode on the freeway and i had to pull over on the side of the freeway..

there were plenty of people here that saw this, so im lost how you came to this conclusion.

[S4to335]

What were the stage 3 Audi S4s doing?

[EvilEmpirE]

Originally Posted by S4to335

What were the stage 3 Audi S4s doing?

hey Steve, shouldn't you get the scoop on AW?

As far as Stage 3 S4's.....fastest ET's were as follows:

11.62 Brent's Torque Factory Moss Tuned car
11.9x JayBQuick's
11.9X Tory's Cactus ASP GT28RS
12.2x Diego's Torque Factory Moss car
12.3x My Noggy Avant

fastest traps were:

120.xx Tory's Cactus
119.51 Brent's
116.6x JayBQuick's
116.331 My Noggy Avant
116.00 Diego's

conditions were not good.......DA' started at 6300' when racing started. BUt it was a hella blast for eveyone

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by CEA 3

dont know how you made this assumption.... IIRC i pulled 1-2 car lengths on you everytime... maybe you got a faster 1/4 mile time than me but you also only ran 2 10ths faster than me and you had a 4 10ths faster 60ft...since my best one that day was like a 2.4 60ft...and when i got a 2.0 60ft i missed 2nd gear.

I have races several automatics from a roll and on the freeway and not one has beat me as of yet....

and if you are going to say its becuase you have exhaust... feel free to look at my exhaust that is on my car right now, it looks worse than the stock crushed bent exhaust. ahahhaah

Well, Charlie, you were just one of a couple I've run.
From 60-130 you pulled about 1-1.25 on me, never 2 CL's (there was at most 5-10 feet of air between our bumpers.
But remember, you had an exhaust, lowered car, and on race gas, and I was on 91 Octane and you were on 245 tires, which are smaller and therefore also increase acceleration. (I also think you had lighter wheels than my heavy 19's)

You should of pulled 1+ CL on me with just the exhaust ALONE.

When Kujo and I ran (he also has an auto and exhaust only) he pulled 1 car length on me when I was stock from 10-90 mph.
So an exhaust alone should be worth 1+
The fact you also had the race gas, the lowered car, and smaller tires and so forth should of had you pulling 2-3 cars on me.

You dynoed 17 whp more to the rear wheels than me after the dyno install and that was 91 Octane.
With the race gas, you were probably pushing 25-30 hp more than me on those runs, but only put just over 1 CL on me.
It would be easy to argue if we were pushing the same HP, I'd of pulled on you.
Especially if I was lowered too (better aerodynamics) and had little 245 tires on instead of my 265's

Once I put in just 1.5 gallons race gas, we did at least 4 runs.
Just after we left Famoso on that Orange Grove road, you jumped me 1 CL from the honk but after than I hung to your rear bumper the rest of the run.
Then, on the freeway I pulled 1+ CL on you each time in like 3 more runs. I know you said your car threw a code, but that was on the last run, and my car was just as heat soaked as yours.

Anyway, once I get my coupe, I'll be more than happy to do some more auto vs. manual runs with people.
My coupe will hopefully run as strong as my sedan.
But with it's gearing advantage, shift speeds, and the fact the turbo keeps spooled between shifts, I think it'll take a VERY fast shifting manual driver to inch ahead.

BTW, I also did a run with ADHD, who also like you had a power advantage on me (he was running full tank of 100 Octane) as well as exhaust, lowered, and smaller tires too.
We botched the take off (he jumped on the first honk) then backed off, then I honked two more times and we went but once up and running I was creeping away from him from 50-100 mph!

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by CEA 3

That was one of the first time me racing my car at the track so launching the car is a bit more tricky than an automatic, since all you do is floor it on auto and manual takes some driving skill....

I'll let you drive the auto at LACR or somewhere sometime, this 335i is my first auto, (I've dragged and owned only manuals up till now) and it takes a bit more skill than just flooring it.
You have to modulate the throttle just the same to keep from getting big tire spinning.
It's a bit trickier than you think.
I think SoCal335i got equal 60' times as the autos at German Invasion too.
I think the better 60' times the autos generally see is because they can load up the turbo at launch.

[SoCal335i]

Originally Posted by Terry335

The autos are slightly quicker in the 1/4 mile because they can load the turbos before launching, and have some additional torque multiplication due to the torque converter. Most of the gain is used up well before the 1/8th mile so I'd expect the manual car to have a higher trap speed, and out accelerate the auto from the 1/8th mile to the 1/4 mark and beyond.

You should hunt around on dragtimes to see if the slips for 335s bear that out (I haven't checked).

I understand what you are saying but its not 100% right, an auto trans will always lose more power to the wheels than a manual. Granted there is more room for the manual to make mistakes and lose the race but a good stick driver will always do better than an automatic. For example on that day your best run was a 13.27, my best run was a 13.37, you had 17" rims on drag radials, i have 19" rims on crappy tires, you weigh approx. 70-80 lbs less than me and i was on 91 oct and you only did 1/10th better time, i think if your car was a stick you would have pulled 13 flat or maybe even 12.9. Wicked is gonna host another event at Famoso at the end of september, by then we should all have some more mods so im looking foward to doing it again, this time i will def. have a better tire setup

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by Driver72

Well, Charlie, you were just one of a couple I've run.
From 60-130 you pulled about 1-1.25 on me, never 2 CL's (there was at most 5-10 feet of air between our bumpers.
But remember, you had an exhaust, lowered car, and on race gas, and I was on 91 Octane and you were on 245 tires, which are smaller and therefore also increase acceleration. (I also think you had lighter wheels than my heavy 19's)

You should of pulled 1+ CL on me with just the exhaust ALONE.

When Kujo and I ran (he also has an auto and exhaust only) he pulled 1 car length on me when I was stock from 10-90 mph.
So an exhaust alone should be worth 1+
The fact you also had the race gas, the lowered car, and smaller tires and so forth should of had you pulling 2-3 cars on me.

You dynoed 17 whp more to the rear wheels than me after the dyno install and that was 91 Octane.
With the race gas, you were probably pushing 25-30 hp more than me on those runs, but only put just over 1 CL on me.
That's pretty clear if we were pushing the same HP, I'd of pulled on you.
Especially if I was lowered too (better aerodynamics) and had little 245 tires on instead of my 265's

Don't forget CEA has chisseled abs and stunning features, easily making up for 1 car length.

[Terry335]

Originally Posted by SoCal335i

I understand what you are saying but its not 100% right, an auto trans will always lose more power to the wheels than a manual. Granted there is more room for the manual to make mistakes and lose the race but a good stick driver will always do better than an automatic. For example on that day your best run was a 13.27, my best run was a 13.37, you had 17" rims on drag radials, i have 19" rims on crappy tires, you weigh approx. 70-80 lbs less than me and i was on 91 oct and you only did 1/10th better time, i think if your car was a stick you would have pulled 13 flat or maybe even 12.9. Wicked is gonna host another event at Famoso at the end of september, by then we should all have some more mods so im looking foward to doing it again, this time i will def. have a better tire setup

Well I had my own problems that day and don't like to bench race, but I'll take an auto any day on the dragstrip. If we're talking about a standing mile race, thats another story. Let's get together when you have better tires and we can try again!

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by Terry335

Well I had my own problems that day and don't like to bench race, but I'll take an auto any day on the dragstrip. If we're talking about a standing mile race, thats another story. Let's get together when you have better tires and we can try again!

I will agree with this Terry.

I think as speeds climb and shifting isn't necessary as much anymore, the advantage of the fast shifts in the auto diminishes and the manuals less drivetrain loss will come into play.
I think we'd see the manuals pull ahead in a race that starts in 4th gear at 100 mph and goes up from there.

[SoCal335i]

Originally Posted by Terry335

Well I had my own problems that day and don't like to bench race, but I'll take an auto any day on the dragstrip. If we're talking about a standing mile race, thats another story. Let's get together when you have better tires and we can try again!

Dont get me wrong i am not saying that your car did not do good or anything, i think you had the fastest BMW time out there that day. All im saying is that i think a manual with a good driver will always be just a bit faster than an auto because of the drivetrain loss. I just cant believe we were keeping up with supercharged M3's!!!

I raced an older guy in a black CL55 AMG last night on ventura blvd, he took the launch on me the first time cause i didnt know he wanted to race but i never fell behind his car, so i pulled up next to him at the next red light and he was all like your car is quick but its no AMG, i started laughing and then i launched on him and left him like right behind my car all the way up to like 90mph and he just flipped me off and kept going, i made a left turn still laughing. I love this car!!! Smokes $130,000 AMG Benzes

[sflgator]

Originally Posted by SoCal335i

I raced an older guy in a black CL55 AMG last night on ventura blvd, he took the launch on me the first time cause i didnt know he wanted to race but i never fell behind his car, so i pulled up next to him at the next red light and he was all like your car is quick but its no AMG, i started laughing and then i launched on him and left him like right behind my car all the way up to like 90mph and he just flipped me off and kept going, i made a left turn still laughing. I love this car!!! Smokes $130,000 AMG Benzes

LOL. No, a PROcede 335i sure is no AMG...it's got the status and handling of a BMW, it's just as fast if not faster than his AMG, probably has more high-tech goodies than the MB AMG, it's built better with higher quality (imho) and it costs $80,000 LESS!!!!! He's right...it's no AMG!

[SoCal335i]

Originally Posted by sflgator

LOL. No, a PROcede 335i sure is no AMG...it's got the status and handling of a BMW, it's just as fast if not faster than his AMG, probably has more high-tech goodies than the MB AMG, it's built better with higher quality (imho) and it costs $80,000 LESS!!!!! He's right...it's no AMG!

True that!

[DLSJ5]

Originally Posted by SoCal335i

Dont get me wrong i am not saying that your car did not do good or anything, i think you had the fastest BMW time out there that day. All im saying is that i think a manual with a good driver will always be just a bit faster than an auto because of the drivetrain loss. I just cant believe we were keeping up with supercharged M3's!!!

I raced an older guy in a black CL55 AMG last night on ventura blvd, he took the launch on me the first time cause i didnt know he wanted to race but i never fell behind his car, so i pulled up next to him at the next red light and he was all like your car is quick but its no AMG, i started laughing and then i launched on him and left him like right behind my car all the way up to like 90mph and he just flipped me off and kept going, i made a left turn still laughing. I love this car!!! Smokes $130,000 AMG Benzes

Correction, a Supercharged M3 was the fastest BMW out there that day, 13.25 at 108 MPH, lousy 2.1 60' as well. I ran pretty bad all day, but managed to get a better launch on this one, regardless the trap tells you more, as I gained about 6-8 MPH over my stock trap, very good for a SC'd car at 5.3 psi.

It's how you look at it, no doubt you did good, but we all know the reason why. At Famoso, approx 600', a full weight M3 Stage 3 AA car trapped 115mph, while the procede cars did 106 - 107, only 2 MPH faster than you did at LACR, my buddies white, 300 lbs. weight reduction Stage 3 AA M3 ran 13.3 at 108 at LACR, huge difference.

How can you not believe you kept up with Supercharged M3's at a corrected 6300' DA? You're making gobs more TQ and at that altitude the SC'd M's are loosing alot of power compared to you, fact is you beat the Stage 1 AA car, I'm not suprised at all knowing the reallity of LACR, regardless, You ran a better time than a stock 996TT as well. :rocks:

Don't get too excited though, E60 M5's have ran mid 13's and trapped 108 MPH at LACR, we know what they'll do to you at or near sea level.

[Driver72]

Originally Posted by SoCal335i

All im saying is that i think a manual with a good driver will always be just a bit faster than an auto because of the drivetrain loss.

I think there is no doubt this would be the case if/when gearing ratios are the same.
But again, the auto has a 3.46 final drive ratio, the manual 3.08.
That and the super, super quick shifts of autos these days often make the autos just as fast as the manuals when driven perfectly and super fast.
But 90%+ of manual drivers can't shift fast enough to keep up with the autos these days.

Again, I could be wrong, but so far apples to apples comparisons seem to show otherwise in our cars.
SoCal335i, what was your best 60' time at German Invasion?

Either way, we are talking a matter of a tenth or so at most.
That's a blink of any eye.

It's not like just a few years ago, when autos were 1/2 second or more slower than the manuals, and 10 years ago it was closer to a second slower.