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      05-18-2010, 06:45 PM   #353
John 070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleckzandr View Post
Here, let me finish the song for you...

I just brought my 8600 mile car in yesterday for long cold cranks, the rough idle, the occasional cut out (especially during low manifold pressure "pulls", i.e. accelerating out of say, 3rd gear below 2000rpm), the "1/2" engine light (CEL) and "Service Engine Soon" light (SES), and blah blah blah. (Are you pickin' up the beat?) The dealer starts out with just the ECU software update - this is from BMW headquarters. (Got that melody?) I ask which version of the FP I have (maybe they would know based on VIN? I have a 2009 335i made in June of 2009) I write them an email AND tell them I don't trust just the software update. They say the car is ready. I tell them to hold it overnight and cold start it in the morning (this morning), I also ask them to drive it on the highway and do low rpm pulls.... (Now I'll finish your song.) I get the call this morning that it cold starts fine, it drives fine... I come in to the dealer and it starts fine... I notice though that the temperature needle isn't pegged "cold". Hmmmm, it's not exactly cold. I take it out on the highway... The car didn't even make it to the end of the entrance ramp before I got the CEL and SES light. The car wouldn't even keep limp mode. I had to turn off the ignition and restart it. Luckily I was only 2 miles from the dealership. Back in she goes.... As TrackRat and others have stated, the software fix is a hack. I'm looking forward to the day when I get the mail that tells me that BMW has lost their class action lawsuit, if they are going to waste my time, then I will take their money. If only I had time to start my own.
Again, I just want to jump right through the computer when I read this story. Because I was treated the same way, just give me the car back and once I get home, it can't start. Ridiculous incompetence at BMW. No wonder some doctor was shouting at my CA when I was taking delivery of my car. Even rich people get sick and tired of getting treated badly.
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      05-18-2010, 10:17 PM   #354
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Question: For those people that feel that the dealers may be clearing codes and doing nothing, is there an aftermarket reader or scanner that will give the owner ALL the codes that BMW see in their shops?
Another idea is ask for a copy of the diagnosis report when you take your car in. I did that at my old deaolership and they gave me a copy. 12 pages of some very interesting stuff. A real page turner, "couldnt put it down" reading. I wont give away the ending, but the butlker did it in the library with the fuel pump.
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      05-18-2010, 10:22 PM   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John 070 View Post
Again, I just want to jump right through the computer when I read this story. Because I was treated the same way, just give me the car back and once I get home, it can't start. Ridiculous incompetence at BMW. No wonder some doctor was shouting at my CA when I was taking delivery of my car. Even rich people get sick and tired of getting treated badly.
You're pickin' up what I'm puttin' down and catchin' on to my rythym. It's the same ol' song, apparently. I'm incredulous as to what BMW is doing. Don't they realize that current customers are their best customers who are likely to buy again? Is the economy so crappy that they're only concerned with short term profit? In the end, they'll have to pay these dealers to replace all these HPFPs anyways, ~lose~ the lawsuit, AND get p!ssed off customers who'll buy Porsches, Audis, etc. in the future instead. Effing unbelievable.
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      05-19-2010, 01:38 PM   #356
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I just got a call from my SA, my car is "done" and I asked about the part number. He gave out a number that ended in 933, (!?) and he explicitly mentioned this supercedes the one with the part number that ends in 943. More later. Quisp, get rhe BT tool - it's a must. This will be BMW's 6th part number to fix this problem. May God have pity on all of our souls.
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      05-19-2010, 04:59 PM   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nekken04 View Post
Update to my original post:

Took my car in this morning. Dealer called this afternoon and said BMW told them to keep the car overnight and do software upgrades first. More to follow...
Update...

The car is fixed according to the SA. They wanted to keep it overnight and do a cold start for a quality check in the morning. Again, more to follow...
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      05-19-2010, 07:37 PM   #358
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Car is back after receiving new fuel pump. All appears well. The car accelerates normally.

From my Invoice, the tech noted:

"installed fuel gauge into system to determine actual fuel pressures. Initial Prime and residual pressures are within specifications at this time. Test drove vehicle with gauge attached and found pressure is insufficient under load. Determined high pressure fuel pump to be faulty. [diagcode: D1350_00000000_02_002] Removed and replaced high pressure fuel pump."

So I recommend to all with HPFP failures that you ask your dealer to do this ["Test drove vehicle with gauge attached and found pressure is insufficient under load"], so you don't have to play charades like I did.

The part number for this pump is 13-51-7-613-933. This supersedes 13-51-7-594-943 which in turn superseded 13-51-7-592-881. My SA told me this new HPFP has only been out 2 weeks.

Also good information here by 1addict user "isitspringyet":
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=377318

I had a sneaky suspicion this has to do with ethanol in our fuels. The law here on the front range of Colorado stipulates it must be 10% for smog reduction. For those of you who use lower ethanol in your fuel, I believe you will have a lower chance of having a failure. But this is not proved yet.

Here's another link from wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel

Last edited by IN54NITY; 05-20-2010 at 10:11 AM..
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      05-19-2010, 07:45 PM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quisp View Post
Question: For those people that feel that the dealers may be clearing codes and doing nothing, is there an aftermarket reader or scanner that will give the owner ALL the codes that BMW see in their shops?
Another idea is ask for a copy of the diagnosis report when you take your car in. I did that at my old deaolership and they gave me a copy. 12 pages of some very interesting stuff. A real page turner, "couldnt put it down" reading. I wont give away the ending, but the butlker did it in the library with the fuel pump.
Yes there is an aftermarket scanner that works quite well. I had to use it once I put on downpipes because it was reading errors at the catalytic converter. You should be able to order it off of burgermotorsports.com if interested. Not sure of the price off the top of my head
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      05-19-2010, 08:45 PM   #360
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i wonder how much it would cost to replace the High Pressure Fuel Pump if you had to pay out of your own pocket?
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      05-20-2010, 01:00 AM   #361
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i am getting about 2 second cranks at 840 miles. the car accelerates fine, but when i start the car cold, the brake is very difficult to depress and feels "locked."

anybody have any idea what this is?
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      05-20-2010, 08:54 AM   #362
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Well, the past two mornings my 08 E93 did the long crank, irratic idle and the half engine signal along with engine malfunction in the idrive. I shut it off and restart and everything is normal. I have 33K on it now. I bought her used with 31K and when I bought her I was allowed to see the service history and the hpfp was replaced at 14.8K.

I'm just wondering if this "malfunction" gets stored in the pcm so a tech would be able to read it?
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      05-20-2010, 03:12 PM   #363
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there are two types of start up failures... both cold and hot...

so my situation is not abnormal i just havent heard someone mention it until i started a thread with "abnormal" symptoms...
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      05-20-2010, 03:32 PM   #364
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Question

Ok so maybe someone can help me understand what I was just told by my BMW SA...first of all, I dropped my car off at my dealer last night to have them check for / hopefully replace my 2nd HPFP as I've been having loong cranks upon cold starts every morning for the past few weeks and its been getting progressively worse. I never got any CEL's but I wasn't taking any chances again so I brought it in (about 10k miles after the first one went). Sure enough this afternoon I get a call saying that they did indeed find codes that led to a faulty fuel pump again once they were able to replicate the extended crank time. Here's where I'm a bit confused. The SA said that just recently BMW NA has been able to produce and provide a software update that can be loaded to our cars which allows for the HPFP symptoms to be eliminated without having to replace the pump again? (because I guess the pump itself may not be bad from last October or whenever I had it replaced)..He said that my car has been in the process of being reflashed and updated with the newest software for the past 5 hours! and that it was almost done and that it should fix the problem. I have never heard of such a thing before (let alone the nonsense of a 5 hour software flash update on a new BMW) and apparantly, if once its updated and they drive the car and find that the problem is gone and fuel pump codes arent being produced anymore, then my car is good to go. If they DO find faulty codes again, basically the 5 hour flash is a waste of time and they will replace the pump tomorrow. Does this make any sence to anyone or have any of you heard of this being done in place of just getting a new pump once the problem is found? Will this really fix the issue on the old pump and will my car be any different now with this so called "better" software update? Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks,

~Chris~
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      05-20-2010, 05:21 PM   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrackRat View Post
FWIW, it appears that the 933 HPFP is actually a rebuilt HPFP and requires the old core or a $50 core charge. This may not be a long term solution. It may be a cost savings measure?
Who effing knows anymore. If the last 943 (and indeed 933 is rebuilt to an equivalent 943) together with the software update doesn't work, then we're all screwed. How do you know/deduce that the 933 is a rebuild?

Chris, check your last invoice to see what the part # was of your HPFP replacement.
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      05-20-2010, 07:50 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aleckzandr View Post
Who effing knows anymore. If the last 943 (and indeed 933 is rebuilt to an equivalent 943) together with the software update doesn't work, then we're all screwed. How do you know/deduce that the 933 is a rebuild?

Chris, check your last invoice to see what the part # was of your HPFP replacement.
I think everything is refurbed. People say, "I got new turbos." Did you really, or remanuf? There's no way that in the car business anything is thrown away that can be reused/rebuilt. What I find troubling is I've installed remanuf calipers of the same brand, say left and right. Months later, one is completely rusted, another seizes prematurely, etc. The quality is not there, it's not the same as new.
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      05-21-2010, 12:41 AM   #367
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John 070 and TrackRat, thanks for the posts and info. To answer your question alloy: Yes. If a CEL (check engine light - 1/2 engine symbol) was thrown for your HPFP failure, a specific error "code" will be saved. Many different faults can be saved. It (or they) can be read at a later time by using a BT tool, a Proceed, etc. (I don't think your tech will be using the latter though. )
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      05-21-2010, 08:01 AM   #368
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Thanks aleckzandr!
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      05-21-2010, 01:50 PM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alloy View Post
Well, the past two mornings my 08 E93 did the long crank, irratic idle and the half engine signal along with engine malfunction in the idrive. I shut it off and restart and everything is normal. I have 33K on it now. I bought her used with 31K and when I bought her I was allowed to see the service history and the hpfp was replaced at 14.8K.

I'm just wondering if this "malfunction" gets stored in the pcm so a tech would be able to read it?
I would say this--as long as you're under warranty, eventually everything will be fixed. I have experienced the same thing, motor quits out of nowhere, restart and everything is fine. Initially, fine for weeks. As it progressed, worse and worse, to the point of can't make it less than 1 mile to the Post Office. The repeated trips to the dealership are maddening--one thing I have not done is to go to another dealership. I went to two yesterday because I had time to kill after a meeting at lunch, and I saw two dealerships that were less than 3 y.o. Wow, how different than mine. Can you believe that in one people were overly polite? Asked me if I want a beverage, offered to let me watch tv (no other customers were waiting), etc. Problem is both these dealerships are more than 20 miles from me when mine is about 4 miles.

The other thing that is vague is I think codes are stored, and they are instructed to clear them and see if they come right back. If not, you're back on the road without a repair....
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      05-24-2010, 07:08 PM   #370
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I've had 2 "updates" in the last 3 weeks. Experiencing LONG cranks, lots of lag and jerky transmission. Very frustrated and hopefully will get a replacement next time I take it in.
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      05-24-2010, 07:55 PM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW/Lakers View Post
I've had 2 "updates" in the last 3 weeks. Experiencing LONG cranks, lots of lag and jerky transmission. Very frustrated and hopefully will get a replacement next time I take it in.
Yea, I too am getting Long cranks and a bit of transmission jerkiness as well AFTER having my first "update" last week.... I have a feeling this is going to be a long, annoying road of ownership. I hope I get a replacement as soon as I go back to the dealer.
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      05-25-2010, 01:36 AM   #372
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hello everyone.
i have issue with long crank...i went to dealer 4 times already for long crank. they overnight my car,,, but they still couldn't find or heard long crank. this time i didn't start my car 1 day. and i recorded sound, and im going to dealer tomorrow.
if they replace fuel pump then it's 2nd times they replace.
i will let you know what's going to happen to my car.

i hope they FIX IT!!!!!!!
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      05-25-2010, 10:03 AM   #373
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Man, seems like a lot more 08's lately. Looks like they usually go out around 31-33K. I'm about to hit 33K. I just hope it doesn't happen while I'm in Europe. I know it will be a pain to get them to do it for free. If it does happen before I get back to the states...I'll probably just order the damn part myself and get a guy I know here to replace it. Or better yet, the problem actually gets solved 100% by the time mine goes out, yeah right...I could never be that lucky...
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      05-26-2010, 01:20 AM   #374
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as of today; they are going to hold my car until thursday.

*dealer said: all 335i have long crank problem........
ru serious?
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