E90Post
 


Lux Angel Eyes
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Official: N54 engine with Bi-Turbo 306HP, 400Nm ...



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-18-2006, 03:43 PM   #111
mapezzul
Special Agent
mapezzul's Avatar
United_States
35
Rep
1,737
Posts

Drives: Depends on the day!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bavaria

iTrader: (1)

From the Press release for the new MINI motors which have the same design as the BMW apparently and have 4 cylinders rather than 6, So with the added cylinder for each turbo they can spool even quicker, and possibly be a bit larger.... we will see when the full specs are released. So as far as lag goes there will be none. As for the 2.0T there is NO lag, it idles a bit rough b/c it is a four banger but other wise a great motor. The inline 6 twin turbo is going to be smooth and just rip through the RPMS!

"For the first time in this class, the direct injection engine in the new family comes with a twin-scroll turbocharger. Featuring this technology, the ducts of each two cylinders in the exhaust manifolds and turbochargers are different from one another in their design. Reducing exhaust gas counterpressure at low engine speeds, twin-scroll charger technology capitalises on the dynamic effect of the pulsing gas columns in the exhaust manifolds. The result is additional power and thrust on even less fuel, enabling the turbocharger to boost engine output from an earlier point. This effect is clearly noticeable, with the charger building up extra power from roughly 1,400 rpm, almost completely avoiding the “turbo lag” often criticised on turbocharged engines, and generating torque almost as fast as in a compressor engine.

The flow of exhaust gas accelerates the turbine wheel to a speed of up to 220,000 rpm. And at the same time the compressor running on the same shaft compresses the fresh air fed into the system. A wastegate complete with a check valve monitors the maximum turbocharger pressure of 0.8 bar. In addition, overpressure in the system is controlled by a dump valve activated when coasting with the intake manifold closed. To increase the charge level, the pre-compressed fresh air is cooled down in an intercooler before flowing into the combustion chamber. The intercooler itself is fitted in the car at a predetermined point meeting all the requirements of this particular configuration."
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2006, 05:30 PM   #112
flipmde786
Lieutenant
United_States
10
Rep
513
Posts

Drives: 330xi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by LIKEWATER
The Mercedes 6.3l motor is a bored/stroked version of the Chrysler Hemi 6.1l.
Don't be fooled by the marketing and CEO's.......... this was NO merger Chrysler owns Mercedes.
The new AMG V8 has nothing in common with ANY DaimlerChrysler motor in existence. It is a totally new motor built my AMG completely, not based off any MB motors. And it is correct that it displaces ~6.2L; the "63" designation is for historical reference.

Now, back to the topic of this thread...I've read many things about no DI motors in the US (at least from BMW) until the fuels are cleaned up further. Also, the twin-turbo model being a Euro-only model is a pretty strong rumor.

I'm sure most people won't believe this, and I'm skeptical myself, but as I posted in another thread, I was told by a dealership that not only is the twin-turbo Euro-only, but the US won't get any new engines, at least for now. I think that if we indeed get a new engine, it will be an NA engine and not a twin-turbo.
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2006, 05:35 PM   #113
noflash
Captain Caveman
noflash's Avatar
90
Rep
1,715
Posts

Drives: '06 325eyeyiyi
Join Date: May 2005
Location: midwest

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 325i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by LIKEWATER
The Mercedes 6.3l motor is a bored/stroked version of the Chrysler Hemi 6.1l.
Don't be fooled by the marketing and CEO's.......... this was NO merger Chrysler owns Mercedes.
I swear there is a big lawsuit by Chrysler stock owners who were told this was to be a "merger of equals" and now it's apparent that Daimler is running the show.

Perhaps you'd like to back up your statement.
__________________

E90 325i Monaco Blue, Black Leatherette, Sport, Cold Weather, Xenon, Sat Prep, 18" BBS RGR
Mods: Polorized Film for Business CD, added lumbar, rock chip on hood
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2006, 05:49 PM   #114
Armen52
Captain
Armen52's Avatar
25
Rep
661
Posts

Drives: 2006 330i
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2006 330i  [0.00]
That lawsuit was led by Kirk Krekorian and they lost by the way. The DiamlerChrysler merger is way off-topic anyway.
__________________
E90 330i delivered 6/29/2005, ZSP/ZPP/ZCW/Step, Arctic/Gray/Walnut
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2006, 06:02 PM   #115
mapezzul
Special Agent
mapezzul's Avatar
United_States
35
Rep
1,737
Posts

Drives: Depends on the day!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bavaria

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipmde786
I've read many things about no DI motors in the US (at least from BMW) until the fuels are cleaned up further. Also, the twin-turbo model being a Euro-only model is a pretty strong rumor.
I'm sure most people won't believe this, and I'm skeptical myself, but as I posted in another thread, I was told by a dealership that not only is the twin-turbo Euro-only, but the US won't get any new engines, at least for now. I think that if we indeed get a new engine, it will be an NA engine and not a twin-turbo.
The fuel in the US has nothing to do with Direct injection or turbos. The gas fuel in the US in some instances is cleaner than in Europe; the issue with fuel in the US is diesel and the sulfur content. The US uses a different system for the octane rating than Europe, the fuel in the end is not that different. BMW already offers a Direct injection V12 on the 760, so I am not sure what you are talking about when you say that BMW will not have Direct injection in the US, The new MINI engine (designed and built by BMW) will be Direct Injection as well. The dealers are usually less informed than most as well and they do not disclose anything for many reasons if they do know something. Direct injection is the future and BMW is going to release newer motors with that technology sooner than later, other manufacturers already have and BMW will follow suit b/c if they wait to long they will lose out in the battle for supremacy.
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2006, 06:09 PM   #116
Garrett
Banned
22
Rep
1,356
Posts

Drives: 2004 330ci
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Mich

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flipmde786
The new AMG V8 has nothing in common with ANY DaimlerChrysler motor in existence. It is a totally new motor built my AMG completely, not based off any MB motors. And it is correct that it displaces ~6.2L; the "63" designation is for historical reference.

Now, back to the topic of this thread...I've read many things about no DI motors in the US (at least from BMW) until the fuels are cleaned up further. Also, the twin-turbo model being a Euro-only model is a pretty strong rumor.

I'm sure most people won't believe this, and I'm skeptical myself, but as I posted in another thread, I was told by a dealership that not only is the twin-turbo Euro-only, but the US won't get any new engines, at least for now. I think that if we indeed get a new engine, it will be an NA engine and not a twin-turbo.
WTF are you talking about ...? The petrol in the States are clean. Very clean.

It's a completly different story when your talking about deisel.
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2006, 06:10 PM   #117
thunderbirdsarego
Private
3
Rep
90
Posts

Drives: 330xi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mapezzul
The fuel in the US has nothing to do with Direct injection or turbos. The gas fuel in the US in some instances is cleaner than in Europe; the issue with fuel in the US is diesel and the sulfur content. The US uses a different system for the octane rating than Europe, the fuel in the end is not that different...
I am no expert here but I do recall reading that Audi had to significantly modify the direct injection used on the 2.0T (A4) to make it suitable for US fuels.

Since there are a lot of DI injection cars over here now, my guess is that it may be the interplay of a particular DI design and trying to simultaneously meet Euro and US emissions standards for the variety of fuel types.

Of course this is 100% speculation!!!
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2006, 06:15 PM   #118
E90Fleet
Lieutenant General
South Africa
851
Rep
10,198
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Africa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett
WTF are you talking about ...? The petrol in the States are clean. Very clean.

It's a completly different story when your talking about deisel.
Its not wether its clean, its its formulation.

Direct Injection engines with "lean burn mode" require a specific formulation to be adheared to. ( not shure is 335i will have lean burn, but the other new DI engines will )

Ive often read that the USA will only comply by 2007.

Our fuel here complies asof January 2006, and I belive Europe complies asof late 2005.
Japan has complied for years, hence why they have many local market lean burn DI engines
__________________
BMW if you are reading, I need a job, Please.
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2006, 07:09 PM   #119
mapezzul
Special Agent
mapezzul's Avatar
United_States
35
Rep
1,737
Posts

Drives: Depends on the day!
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Bavaria

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by E90Fleet
Its not wether its clean, its its formulation.

Direct Injection engines with "lean burn mode" require a specific formulation to be adheared to. ( not shure is 335i will have lean burn, but the other new DI engines will )

Ive often read that the USA will only comply by 2007.

Our fuel here complies asof January 2006, and I belive Europe complies asof late 2005.
Japan has complied for years, hence why they have many local market lean burn DI engines

After doing some further investigating I uncovered the reason.
Direct Injection Gasoline Engines are used in Europe and Japan to improve the efficiency of conventional gasoline engines. This technology is not broadly available in the U.S. because it has a problem meeting Tier 2 emissions standards. The Tier 2 Vehicle and Gasoline Sulfur Program is a landmark program that affects every new passenger vehicle and every gallon of gasoline sold in the U.S. By designing cleaner cars that run on cleaner fuels the result is cleaner air.
The issue is the lean burn Direct Injection engines will produce higher levels of NOx which does not meet the standard. To reduce the NOx level different catalytic converters have been developed but are not reliable over the long term, because of the sulfur that is still contained in the fuel. The Tier 2 standards are the highest in the world and are going to be completely phased in by 2009, until then only 60% of cars a manufacturer produces needs to comply. The cleaner gasoline has been phased in since 2004. Direct Injection lean burn produces more emissions than regular EFI. Non lean burn would produce comparable emission but not provide the greater efficiency; some efficiency but not as much as it is able to. Power and responsiveness I would imagine would still be greater. So it is possible for BMW to send in the Direct injection now in its current form. The real test would be in 2009. All of this information comes from the wonderful EPA; I would cite them but I don't have the time! lol Best of luck!
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2006, 08:14 PM   #120
E90-4life
auto pilot
E90-4life's Avatar
160
Rep
822
Posts

Drives: E60 M5 chilln on slicks
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Some of you guys know NOTHING. Since when in the hell has Chrysler owned Mercedes!?!?!It's the OTHER WAY AROUND. Jurgen Schremp(old #1 at MB) made the decision for Daimler Benz to acquire the Chrysler group. Chrysler was in NO position to buy MB, let alone any other brand at the time of the acquisition.

Stupid careless/biased discussion like this irritates the crap out of me. Knuckle heads
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2006, 08:40 PM   #121
EVO_S4
Colonel
EVO_S4's Avatar
67
Rep
2,205
Posts

Drives: 2015 WRX STI
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: TN

iTrader: (28)

Garage List
2009 BMW  [4.12]
I want the turbo, bring it no need for a 3.5
__________________
2016 VW Golf R
2016 Audi Q5 3.0T
Appreciate 0
      02-18-2006, 11:13 PM   #122
poldim
Vroom Vrrooooom
poldim's Avatar
Russian Federation
169
Rep
3,146
Posts

Drives: 330i
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2006 330i Sedan  [0.00]
2003 GSX-R 600  [0.00]
Send a message via AIM to poldim
I think my car has enough power. The only reason the 335 is here is to compete with the IS350 and G35.

Most of these people buying it wont be using it as more than a 325.
__________________
-Dmitriy
06' BMW 330i & 03' Suzuki GSX-R600

SG | Beige Dakota | Poplar || iDrive w/MP3 | PP | SP | CWP | PDC | Comfort | Shades || 40% Tint
| Black Line Tail Lights | Hardwired V1
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2006, 12:15 AM   #123
3aficionado
Captain
3aficionado's Avatar
Italy
14
Rep
710
Posts

Drives: 02 M3/RRover Super
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by poldim
I think my car has enough power. The only reason the 335 is here is to compete with the IS350 and G35.

Most of these people buying it wont be using it as more than a 325.
I agree. Although I hope BMW is planning ahead this time to compete with the G37. It appears BMW didn't look as closely at the competition as they should have before releasing the e90. Otherwise they wouldn't need the engine change so quickly. I like the idea of the 335 since I always buy the best vehicle in a model line. But I agree that 75% of the time no one will need any more than what the 325 gives you.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2006, 12:27 AM   #124
3aficionado
Captain
3aficionado's Avatar
Italy
14
Rep
710
Posts

Drives: 02 M3/RRover Super
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by E90-4life
Some of you guys know NOTHING. Since when in the hell has Chrysler owned Mercedes!?!?!It's the OTHER WAY AROUND. Jurgen Schremp(old #1 at MB) made the decision for Daimler Benz to acquire the Chrysler group. Chrysler was in NO position to buy MB, let alone any other brand at the time of the acquisition.

Stupid careless/biased discussion like this irritates the crap out of me. Knuckle heads
It wasn't an acquisition. Actually it was a merger. In 1998 Mercedes didn't have the coffers to buy anyone either. The newly formed DaimlerChrysler was led for a while by both Juergen Schrempp (MB) and Robert Eaton (Chrysler). It wasn't until the years after the merger when the infighting between corporate cultures starting taking its toll. This has left a predominantly Daimler management team.

Chrysler was shopping for merger partners for some time before making a deal with MB. Chrysler was even in talks with BMW at one time... just think where we would be today if that had come to fruition.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2006, 01:41 AM   #125
Jarlaxle
Enlisted Member
0
Rep
32
Posts

Drives: 1999.5 A4 1.8TQMS
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA

iTrader: (0)

Appreciate 0
      02-19-2006, 02:10 AM   #126
flipmde786
Lieutenant
United_States
10
Rep
513
Posts

Drives: 330xi
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Long Island, NY

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garrett
WTF are you talking about ...? The petrol in the States are clean. Very clean.

It's a completly different story when your talking about deisel.
Maybe you should read through other threads on this board before commenting.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2006, 02:39 AM   #127
E90-4life
auto pilot
E90-4life's Avatar
160
Rep
822
Posts

Drives: E60 M5 chilln on slicks
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3aficionado
It wasn't an acquisition. Actually it was a merger. In 1998 Mercedes didn't have the coffers to buy anyone either. The newly formed DaimlerChrysler was led for a while by both Juergen Schrempp (MB) and Robert Eaton (Chrysler). It wasn't until the years after the merger when the infighting between corporate cultures starting taking its toll. This has left a predominantly Daimler management team.



Chrysler was shopping for merger partners for some time before making a deal with MB. Chrysler was even in talks with BMW at one time... just think where we would be today if that had come to fruition.
You're right, but who wears the pants in the realtionship?
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2006, 06:50 AM   #128
E90Fleet
Lieutenant General
South Africa
851
Rep
10,198
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: South Africa

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3aficionado
I agree. Although I hope BMW is planning ahead this time to compete with the G37. It appears BMW didn't look as closely at the competition as they should have before releasing the e90. Otherwise they wouldn't need the engine change so quickly. I like the idea of the 335 since I always buy the best vehicle in a model line. But I agree that 75% of the time no one will need any more than what the 325 gives you.
No, actually the info about the turbo and DI engines was out before the E90 was launched.

BMW couldnt launch the E90 with those engines because the european legislation for DI compatable fuel only changed late 2005
__________________
BMW if you are reading, I need a job, Please.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2006, 11:10 AM   #129
oilbelcher
Private
0
Rep
90
Posts

Drives: 320 td (diesel)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Geneva Switzerland & Peoria Illinois

iTrader: (0)

In my own opinion, I have to disagree with the earlier comment that the 330 has enough power (and I do use all the power of this type of car). It does have good HP, but no torque compared to the competition. And remember that HP is just a function of torque, and that torque is what delivers the kick in the pants at all RPMs that people crave. I currently drive the 320 td diesel (in switzerland, temporarily) which only has 125 HP, but more torque than the 330i with one less liter, at lower RPM. Of course its not directly comparable, but it does have more guts on the low end. I also had a G35 before moving to switzerland, and absolutely loved the low-end torque -- much better than the 330i. A smooth engine is wonderful when lolly-gagging through the gears on a sunday in the park, but I want low-end torque, and more of it. The BMW 3 liter engine is the best, most well-balanced engine, but why not further cement their lead by adding 50 ft/lbs of torque? Until then, I'm waiting for BMW to deliver torque that should be expected in this price range (meaning 330 price). Leave the 325 for people who don't care and don't use the power. I wish companies like Honda and BMW would stop being so conservative with their engine designs as far as torque vs HP designs. And of course BMW strives for the well-rounded, perfect driving machine (meaning great handling--and they are with no question the best), but why can't they deliver some torque to increase the fun factor??? The E90 increased the HP, but not the torque -- who are they fooling with today's competition? Bring the 335 turbo on, but don't charge more than $3k extra, or they are really pushing the value equation.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2006, 02:46 PM   #130
amdmaxx
My gift Registry: M2
amdmaxx's Avatar
United_States
57
Rep
1,414
Posts

Drives: Future Mowner of Monster
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

No doubts, Mr. Sr. Engineer..
Hemi is a pushrod, AMG engine is DOHC..


Quote:
Originally Posted by LIKEWATER
The Mercedes 6.3l motor is a bored/stroked version of the Chrysler Hemi 6.1l.
Don't be fooled by the marketing and CEO's.......... this was NO merger Chrysler owns Mercedes.
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2006, 03:55 PM   #131
Roukan
Roach
5
Rep
31
Posts

Drives: E90 335xi
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicagoland, IL

iTrader: (0)

no Valvetronic?

From reading the description of the N54 turbo it doesn't look like it makes use of BMW's patented valvtronic design like all the other new engines. Despite this, the new turbo has a great torque cruve with 290+ torque from 1500 RPM to near red line. The valvtronic in the N52 for example added 1/3 extra weight, but since it also made use lighter magnesium in its crankshaft the overall weight was 20 kg or so less that the privious E46 3.0 liter I-6. This new engine is pure aluminum and doesn't make use of weight saving magnesium, but if it really doesn't have valvtronic than this is off-set. I will be very interested to see what the weight of the 335 sedan vs the 330 sedan will be and how close to a 50 -50 front-rear weight distribution it will have. The dual exhaust in the rear will probably balance off the added weight in the front to help the 50-50 weight distribution goal. I wonder if excluding the valvtronic saves them nearly the same amount in production costs that adding the bi-turbo adds to the costs and hence they will be able to sell them for almost the same price. Anybody have any thoughts?
Appreciate 0
      02-19-2006, 06:02 PM   #132
RussianM3_dude
Private First Class
3
Rep
172
Posts

Drives: B7 Audi RS4
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Switzerland

iTrader: (0)

So it is for sure there will be no V8 engine for the non ///M 3ers?
Appreciate 0
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:07 AM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST