VK Motorwerks 135/335i Direct Mount Intercooler

Vince@ V K Motorwerks · 01-17-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juicer

It almost looks like the FMIC is losing 10 to 15 whp between 5800 and 6600 rpm compared to stock

. If this is the case it would be hurting 1/4 times on the map it was run on. It is boosting 1psi less which is good.

Like you said, 1psi less. We only got to do one pull on the stock IC so there was no heat soak at all. My next post will show our IC on a 335xi vs the stock IC same day, same dyno done at AMS. I hope this will clear some confusion as it seems that people are only looking at the peak hp/tq numbers and not fully understanding the purpose of an intercooler.

cn555ic · 01-17-2009, 06:43 PM

Wow...this is a real direct bolt on which seems like anyone with tools and a DIY instructions can mod themselves...I been thinking about this, but all those FMIC that are out needs some kind of modification! Highly interested, but what is the price on this anyway?

Soni · 01-17-2009, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Highly interested, but what is the price on this anyway?

Price stated on his first post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince@ V K Motorwerks

This IC will be on sale on our website for a short period of time.
Intro priced at only $875!

Preorders will be shipped out shortly.

cn555ic · 01-17-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soni

Price stated on his first post.

Oh missed that!

Vince@ V K Motorwerks · 01-17-2009, 07:15 PM

We have tested cores, end tanks, inlets, and design multiple times to come up with the best combinations of performance and easy of install. We did this because our customers demanded it. It has taken a long time to develop this intercooler but we are very happy with our end results.

The intercooler was designed using the most advanced laser coordinate measuring machine (CMM) to precisely calculate the complex compound angles of the inlet and outlet piping. We then took the CMM data and CAD modeled it to offer a top notch manufactured product. We then came up with several designs and had them tested, this current design proved to be the best. Here is why:

We Dyno tested a 335xi at AMS on their Dynojet dyno.

Now looking at the above dyno graphs the power is the same so people assume that the stock IC is just as good as the VK IC. This is why we stay away from all the marketing hype of just publishing peak hp/tq numbers because dyno numbers don’t tell the whole story. We could have changed maps to manipulate the data or did the common practice of taking our intercoolers highest hp/tq number and comparing it to the lowest stock IC numbers but we are not going to do that because we stand behind our products and don’t feel the need to fluff our numbers for marketing purposes.

So here is the rest of the story....
We datalogged each run and this spread sheet is a summary of the important data.

Below are the actual data log screen shots:
Stock IC Run 1:

Stock IC Run 2:

Stock IC Run 3:

VK IC Run 1:

VK IC Run 2:

VK IC Run 3:

This car was using the Procede V3.0 software stage 2 map. No tq settings or maps were changed. The car had catless down pipes and dual intakes.

The main reason that power is staying relatively consistent regardless of the type of intercooler that was tested was because of the IAT compensation. The car will try to achieve the same power levels regardless of the ambient temps. This is why your car runs higher boost in hot weather and lower boost in cold weather.

So now back to the spread sheet, you will notice that with the stock IC has to increase its boost with each run to maintain the same power levels. Furthermore, you will notice the IAT variance is significantly greater in the stock IC than the VK IC. You will also notice that with each pull the boost is dropping with the VK IC. This is because the car was adapting to the new IC.
If you compare the third runs for each intercooler you will see the greatest difference. The car has to only boost to 12.7psi to reach 355awhp whereas, the car with the stock IC has to boost to 15.7psi to reach 354awhp I hope you understand and see what we are trying to show you. The VK IC allows you to raise your boost by 3psi more! This affords you the ability to produce more power. We are testing in the most neutral way by not changing any factors with either IC.

I hope all this now makes sense. Thank you for reading.

-Vince

cn555ic · 01-17-2009, 07:35 PM

thats nice!

Noize · 01-17-2009, 08:01 PM

Intercoolers don't always show their beauty on the dyno. They really do incredible on the street, especially when it is hot outside with repeated runs.

I think this intercooler is freaking awesome, because its very affordable and its a direct bolt on. I think cutting on the undertray of a $40k+ BMW is asinine.

If I didn't have our second child about to be born and finance concerns with that, I'd order one right now. My PROcede and intake 135i would love it.

Great product!

i2iSTUDIOS · 01-17-2009, 08:16 PM

How does this compare to FMIC?

IC are high on my list of mods to help JB3 get another 10-20wHP

Vince@ V K Motorwerks · 01-17-2009, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i2iSTUDIOS

How does this compare to FMIC?

IC are high on my list of mods to help JB3 get another 10-20wHP

This is an FMIC. (Front Mount Inter-Cooler) It will help with or without a tune

Mike@N54Tuning.com · 01-17-2009, 08:38 PM

Can I ask a question, as a enthusiast and not a vendor.

I think this looks like a great idea and design. Why do all other intercooler show HP/TQ gains, while this one does not. I am following your logic and completely agree that a better IC should result in less demand on the turbos. I just want to know what you are doing different then all the other intercoolers in terms of dyno'ing them?

I don't know if you mentioned this but have you looked at pressure loss over the core.

Thanks
Mike

Vince@ V K Motorwerks · 01-17-2009, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Can I ask a question, as a enthusiast and not a vendor.

I think this looks like a great idea and design. Why do all other intercooler show HP/TQ gains, while this one does not. I am following your logic and completely agree that a better IC should result in less demand on the turbos. I just want to know what you are doing different then all the other intercoolers in terms of dyno'ing them?

I don't know if you mentioned this but have you looked at pressure loss over the core.

Thanks
Mike

Hello Mike,

We have checked the pressure drop and all the other variables to ensure that this FMIC is working properly. This is further illustrated by the fact that even though boost drops the power is the same.

PaulBailey@ltbmw · 01-17-2009, 09:09 PM

interesting

RMA · 01-17-2009, 10:08 PM

And I just missed this by a week or so (already ordered a Code 3).

ronzride · 01-17-2009, 10:28 PM

The way I understand this,if I were to use the VK fmic on a totally stock car,I would not see any appreciable hp/tq gains, other than the turbos would not be working as hard to produce the same amt of hp/tq.In order to see any hp/tq gains over stock, I would have use a tune/and/or other mods that would produce more boost to take advantage of the VK fmic's efficiency.Please correct me if I'm wrong.

E92White · 01-17-2009, 10:37 PM

vince is this the same intercooler that nick posted up on N54 a while back ??

Vince@ V K Motorwerks · 01-17-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronzride

The way I understand this,if I were to use the VK fmic on a totally stock car,I would not see any appreciable hp/tq gains, other than the turbos would not be working as hard to produce the same amt of hp/tq.In order to see any hp/tq gains over stock, I would have use a tune/and/or other mods that would produce more boost to take advantage of the VK fmic's efficiency.Please correct me if I'm wrong.

A tune will see more power increase but to say that you won’t see a power increase at stock levels is not true. You will make more power over stock with a FMIC and also be able to keep that power longer since you wont suffer from heat soak.

i2iSTUDIOS · 01-17-2009, 10:48 PM

oh, how does this compare to code3? easier to install by the looks but what about performance?

Vince@ V K Motorwerks · 01-17-2009, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by i2iSTUDIOS

oh, how does this compare to code3? easier to install by the looks but what about performance?

To be honest I dont know. We didnt model ourselves after any other FMIC. Im sure it works well.

NM_BMW · 01-17-2009, 11:22 PM

This is very tempting...

I think a FMIC testing is in need for all the FMICs out there. I'm sure the VK will be up top with the rest of the big boys.

cn555ic · 01-17-2009, 11:34 PM

Next mod pending time and money is this FMIC and CPE's DPs which should come out shortly...after that I AM DONE...well maybe Shiv's Meth!

Vince@ V K Motorwerks · 01-17-2009, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn555ic

Next mod pending time and money is this FMIC and CPE's DPs which should come out shortly...after that I AM DONE...well maybe Shiv's Meth!

I have been saying I'm done for a while now but the bug just gets me. I think Shiv's meth will keep me hapy for a while but larger turbos and a engine rebuild will be next after that.

OneBad335XI · 01-17-2009, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E92White

vince is this the same intercooler that nick posted up on N54 a while back ??

I think it was. I saw that too but it was back in the "early stages of development". What Vince posted here is the final desgin.

A kick ass one too

01-17-2009, 06:43 PM	#24
cn555ic 441 Rep 18,331 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: US iTrader: (6)	Wow...this is a real direct bolt on which seems like anyone with tools and a DIY instructions can mod themselves...I been thinking about this, but all those FMIC that are out needs some kind of modification! Highly interested, but what is the price on this anyway?
	Appreciate 0

01-17-2009, 07:15 PM	#27
Vince@ V K Motorwerks Lieutenant Colonel 148 Rep 1,738 Posts Drives: 01 Black 911 Turbo, 09 X5 Join Date: May 2007 Location: Bloomingdale, IL iTrader: (0)	To clear the confusion interpreting the results We have tested cores, end tanks, inlets, and design multiple times to come up with the best combinations of performance and easy of install. We did this because our customers demanded it. It has taken a long time to develop this intercooler but we are very happy with our end results. The intercooler was designed using the most advanced laser coordinate measuring machine (CMM) to precisely calculate the complex compound angles of the inlet and outlet piping. We then took the CMM data and CAD modeled it to offer a top notch manufactured product. We then came up with several designs and had them tested, this current design proved to be the best. Here is why: We Dyno tested a 335xi at AMS on their Dynojet dyno. Now looking at the above dyno graphs the power is the same so people assume that the stock IC is just as good as the VK IC. This is why we stay away from all the marketing hype of just publishing peak hp/tq numbers because dyno numbers don’t tell the whole story. We could have changed maps to manipulate the data or did the common practice of taking our intercoolers highest hp/tq number and comparing it to the lowest stock IC numbers but we are not going to do that because we stand behind our products and don’t feel the need to fluff our numbers for marketing purposes. So here is the rest of the story.... We datalogged each run and this spread sheet is a summary of the important data. Below are the actual data log screen shots: Stock IC Run 1: Stock IC Run 2: Stock IC Run 3: VK IC Run 1: VK IC Run 2: VK IC Run 3: This car was using the Procede V3.0 software stage 2 map. No tq settings or maps were changed. The car had catless down pipes and dual intakes. The main reason that power is staying relatively consistent regardless of the type of intercooler that was tested was because of the IAT compensation. The car will try to achieve the same power levels regardless of the ambient temps. This is why your car runs higher boost in hot weather and lower boost in cold weather. So now back to the spread sheet, you will notice that with the stock IC has to increase its boost with each run to maintain the same power levels. Furthermore, you will notice the IAT variance is significantly greater in the stock IC than the VK IC. You will also notice that with each pull the boost is dropping with the VK IC. This is because the car was adapting to the new IC. If you compare the third runs for each intercooler you will see the greatest difference. The car has to only boost to 12.7psi to reach 355awhp whereas, the car with the stock IC has to boost to 15.7psi to reach 354awhp I hope you understand and see what we are trying to show you. The VK IC allows you to raise your boost by 3psi more! This affords you the ability to produce more power. We are testing in the most neutral way by not changing any factors with either IC. I hope all this now makes sense. Thank you for reading. -Vince
	Appreciate 0

01-17-2009, 07:35 PM	#28
cn555ic 441 Rep 18,331 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: US iTrader: (6)	thats nice!
	Appreciate 0

01-17-2009, 08:01 PM	#29
Noize Under the radar 41 Rep 840 Posts Drives: FWD in reverse Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: In traffic at idle iTrader: (1)	Intercoolers don't always show their beauty on the dyno. They really do incredible on the street, especially when it is hot outside with repeated runs. I think this intercooler is freaking awesome, because its very affordable and its a direct bolt on. I think cutting on the undertray of a $40k+ BMW is asinine. If I didn't have our second child about to be born and finance concerns with that, I'd order one right now. My PROcede and intake 135i would love it. Great product!
	Appreciate 0

01-17-2009, 08:16 PM	#30
i2iSTUDIOS Captain 88 Rep 870 Posts Drives: BMW 335i Coupe Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cincinnati, OH iTrader: (1)	How does this compare to FMIC? IC are high on my list of mods to help JB3 get another 10-20wHP __________________ 2007 E92 335i / 6MT / Monaco Blue Metallic / Gray Dakota Leather / Comfort Assist / Premium / Sport / Heated Seats / Navi / Active Steering / Active Cruise Control / Park Distance Control / Rear Sunshade / Sirius MODS PicoTray / M3 Steering Wheel / Front OEM Aero Lip / Bimmian Aluminum Pedals / CDV / Ram Air Scoops / Painted Reflectors / HID 5000k / LED Angels / M Perf. Shifter / Euro Light Switch / 8500 x50 / Center Armrest Pouch / JB4 / BT
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01-17-2009, 08:38 PM	#32
Mike@N54Tuning.com Joint Chiefs of Staff 4918 Rep 115,980 Posts Drives: 2007 335i, 2015 M3 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: N54tuning.com iTrader: (89)	Can I ask a question, as a enthusiast and not a vendor. I think this looks like a great idea and design. Why do all other intercooler show HP/TQ gains, while this one does not. I am following your logic and completely agree that a better IC should result in less demand on the turbos. I just want to know what you are doing different then all the other intercoolers in terms of dyno'ing them? I don't know if you mentioned this but have you looked at pressure loss over the core. Thanks Mike
	Appreciate 0

01-17-2009, 09:09 PM	#34
PaulBailey@ltbmw General 663 Rep 26,878 Posts Drives: 2-325 330 2-335 2-Z4 2-135 X5d Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Huntington Beach, CA iTrader: (34) Garage List 2008 BMW 335i E90 [7.00] 2011 BMW 335i E92 [7.96]	interesting
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01-17-2009, 10:08 PM	#35
RMA Major 38 Rep 1,015 Posts Drives: 2009 135i M sport coupe Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Tampa, Fl iTrader: (6) Garage List 2009 135i M sport c ... [0.00]	And I just missed this by a week or so (already ordered a Code 3). __________________
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01-17-2009, 10:28 PM	#36
ronzride Private 5 Rep 65 Posts Drives: 2008 335i E90 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Manahawkin,NJ iTrader: (1)	The way I understand this,if I were to use the VK fmic on a totally stock car,I would not see any appreciable hp/tq gains, other than the turbos would not be working as hard to produce the same amt of hp/tq.In order to see any hp/tq gains over stock, I would have use a tune/and/or other mods that would produce more boost to take advantage of the VK fmic's efficiency.Please correct me if I'm wrong.
	Appreciate 0

01-17-2009, 10:37 PM	#37
E92White N54 Power Baby 29 Rep 680 Posts Drives: E82 135i SGM Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Brownsville,TX iTrader: (3)	vince is this the same intercooler that nick posted up on N54 a while back ??
	Appreciate 0

01-17-2009, 10:48 PM	#39
i2iSTUDIOS Captain 88 Rep 870 Posts Drives: BMW 335i Coupe Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Cincinnati, OH iTrader: (1)	oh, how does this compare to code3? easier to install by the looks but what about performance? __________________ 2007 E92 335i / 6MT / Monaco Blue Metallic / Gray Dakota Leather / Comfort Assist / Premium / Sport / Heated Seats / Navi / Active Steering / Active Cruise Control / Park Distance Control / Rear Sunshade / Sirius MODS PicoTray / M3 Steering Wheel / Front OEM Aero Lip / Bimmian Aluminum Pedals / CDV / Ram Air Scoops / Painted Reflectors / HID 5000k / LED Angels / M Perf. Shifter / Euro Light Switch / 8500 x50 / Center Armrest Pouch / JB4 / BT
	Appreciate 0

01-17-2009, 11:22 PM	#41
NM_BMW Vishnu Powered 68 Rep 2,205 Posts Drives: 335xi, S1000RR Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Proceding iTrader: (7)	This is very tempting... I think a FMIC testing is in need for all the FMICs out there. I'm sure the VK will be up top with the rest of the big boys. __________________ 2008 335xi Sedan \| Titanium Silver \| Black Dakota PROcede v5 \| Vishnu Exhaust \| BMS DCI \| AR Catless DPs \| Helix FMIC \| Stett Charge w/ Tial BOV \| MORR VS8s \| KWv3
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01-17-2009, 11:34 PM	#42
cn555ic 441 Rep 18,331 Posts Drives: 335i Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: US iTrader: (6)	Next mod pending time and money is this FMIC and CPE's DPs which should come out shortly...after that I AM DONE...well maybe Shiv's Meth!
	Appreciate 0