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Vishnu Technical: Ignition timing control facts
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07-15-2009, 09:16 PM | #23 |
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All further off-topic posts will be removed. If you are here to derail the technical discussions or to encourage argument/flaming/trolling, save your time, unless you wish to be infracted and/or banned.
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07-15-2009, 09:17 PM | #24 |
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Whitesled are you saying that with the procede the engine is adding timing even at partial throttle? or there's a possibility that it is?
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07-15-2009, 09:22 PM | #25 | |
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07-15-2009, 09:26 PM | #26 |
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Interesting and looking forward, time willing, to performing my own tests.
I would like to see counter data instead of assumptions. But I doubt I will see it in my life time. |
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07-15-2009, 09:31 PM | #27 | |
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07-15-2009, 09:32 PM | #28 | |
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07-15-2009, 09:35 PM | #29 |
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Great...thanks, looking forward to the new maps and tune documentation.
So any teasers or tidbits surrounding the boost display in dash with other in dash fun info...coming soon?
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07-15-2009, 09:47 PM | #30 |
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I hope I'm invited to participate?
The biggest issue here is finding a reliable method to determine knock retard is taking place. Prior to the BT cable and being able to readout and study the actual ECU timing tables from the BIN we used to think sudden drops in total timing advance equated to knock retard. The more severe the drop the worse the knock retard. Since we've learned that this isn't the case. The "knock response" system is indexed by total timing advance, and broken in to long and short term trims. The further down either timing scale you are, the more aggressively the ECU reduces timing as a function of knock sensor feedback. So in a non-CPS offsetting environment the entire system is more sensitive to pulling timing based on feedback. This is a very good thing for safety. To make a long story short, determing knock retard is taking place and to what degree requires some sophistication. Monitoring total timing advance is not sufficient. Mike |
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07-15-2009, 10:08 PM | #31 | |
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07-15-2009, 10:12 PM | #32 | |
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07-15-2009, 11:27 PM | #33 | |
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07-15-2009, 11:38 PM | #34 | |
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07-16-2009, 12:23 AM | #35 | ||
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Thanks for letting me participate. We can talk about "knock" and timing advance values in a bit, but first I have a few questions about the data posted.
From Test 1: Quote:
From Test 2: Quote:
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07-16-2009, 12:26 AM | #36 | |
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07-16-2009, 01:22 AM | #38 | |
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But yes, in that particular case, there is probably 1-2 degrees of reactive DME retard in the 5000-5500rpm as suggested by slightly more ign. advance shown in Test 4 (with 200% Ign Correction). Just not the 4 degrees that you suggest. However, the real point of this exercise was to illustrate the effect the PROcede's CAS offsetting feature had on Actual Ignition Advance. More than once, you/Terry have stated that the DME will run whatever it wants to run, regardless of CAS offsetting. You've even went so far as to say that CAS offsetting doesn't work at all and that the DME will just "learn" around it. I never thought I needed to take the time to prove that such claims were unfounded. But after hearing several people accept this claim as fact, I took the time to prove otherwise and post are the results. And these results can soon be replicated by hundreds of Rev.2 users out there. Cheers, Shiv |
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07-16-2009, 01:25 AM | #39 | |
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Also, I'm a little curious about your findings regarding knock status since the logging rate of the BT tool is what, 20 samples/sec? And the rate of engine events at 6000rpm is 100 events per second. Seems to me that it misses a lot of the action. And I have data that seems to back that up as well. I'm also interested with what you said with regards to ignition retard "reaction" with respect to nominal ignition advance. For a number of reasons because I've done quite a bit of testing in this field. Easy to do when our tuning device can actually adjust DME perceived nominal ignition advance. Looking forward to your elaboration. Cheers, shiv |
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07-16-2009, 03:36 AM | #40 | |
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What makes me sceptical about adjusting timing is that when I first installed your maps with increased cruising mpg I noticed a large improvement at the FIRST run. I have never seen the low mpg I had initially again. To me this indicate that the ECU adjusts and override the Procede ignition adjustments medium and long term. A comment on this would be interesting, br /Tobias |
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07-16-2009, 06:00 AM | #41 | |
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07-16-2009, 06:15 AM | #42 |
Read the manual please, just do it before asking!
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07-16-2009, 07:40 AM | #44 |
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