[E90ice]

How do you do a good burnout with a 6AT?

I am asking because I'm going to the drag strip next Sunday and with the low temps, I need to warm up those tires before I launch (stock RFT).

I know I can hold the brake and gas it, but doesn't that kinda mess up the torque converter?

Any friendly suggestions would be appreciated.

[FotiosF90M5]

holding the brake a little shouldnt hurt the car too bad, there is enough power to get them going with ease. I just did this ten minutes ago.

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by fotios330i

holding the brake a little shouldnt hurt the car too bad, there is enough power to get them going with ease. I just did this ten minutes ago.

Holy shit!

OK. i'll try that when i go.

[AndrewAZ]

Originally Posted by E90ice

How do you do a good burnout with a 6AT?

I am asking because I'm going to the drag strip next Sunday and with the low temps, I need to warm up those tires before I launch (stock RFT).

I know I can hold the brake and gas it, but doesn't that kinda mess up the torque converter?

Any friendly suggestions would be appreciated.

Yea skip the water box and burnout, your RFT's dont need to be warmed up, the only tires that should have a warm up are drag radials. Typically street tires make the max traction when cooler since the rubber compound is not designed to make good traction when warmed up by say a burn out vs a racing or drag tire that becomes very sticky when warmed up.

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by AndrewAZ

Yea skip the water box and burnout, your RFT's dont need to be warmed up, the only tires that should have a warm up are drag radials. Typically street tires make the max traction when cooler since the rubber compound is not designed to make good traction when warmed up by say a burn out vs a racing or drag tire that becomes very sticky when warmed up.

Well, I disagree. I think most high performance tires, grip better when are warm.

[wj4]

Originally Posted by E90ice

Well, I disagree. I think most high performance tires, grip better when are warm.

High performance and run flats don't mix.

[AndrewAZ]

Originally Posted by E90ice

Well, I disagree. I think most high performance tires, grip better when are warm.

Their is nothing high performance about the tires that come on your car... They are all season... And if I recall right have a tread rating of 400A, vs the tires that come on the E46 M3 were 200a meaning more sticky and even then a burn out was not required since they are designed for road use not track.

Hopefully more tire folks will chime in but again road tires are designed for best grip at lower temperatures.

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by AndrewAZ

Their is nothing high performance about the tires that come on your car... They are all season... And if I recall right have a tread rating of 400A, vs the tires that come on the E46 M3 were 200a meaning more sticky and even then a burn out was not required since they are designed for road use not track.

Hopefully more tire folks will chime in but again road tires are designed for best grip at lower temperatures.

Are we talking about the same STOCK RFT on a 335/328?

They are 140A and they are NOT all season. They are summer tires.

[AndrewAZ]

Originally Posted by E90ice

Are we talking about the same STOCK RFT on a 335/328?

They are 140A and they are NOT all season. They are summer tires.

Doesnt matter. They are not racing/drag tires, so they are not designed to operate at high temperatures.. Racing/drag tires need to be warm to make maximum grip, street tires do not since they use a diffrent design and rubber compound.

Not only that but warming up your tires will warm up the air inside of them causing an increase in tire pressure, and you want lower tire pressure in the back and high pressure in the front tires.

If I recall right a 5 second burn out can bring the tires up to 500F.

[LOLrance]

Originally Posted by AndrewAZ

Doesnt matter. They are not racing/drag tires, so they are not designed to operate at high temperatures.. Racing/drag tires need to be warm to make maximum grip, street tires do not since they use a diffrent design and rubber compound.

Not only that but warming up your tires will warm up the air inside of them causing an increase in tire pressure, and you want lower tire pressure in the back and high pressure in the front tires.

If I recall right a 5 second burn out can bring the tires up to 500F.

Is this from personal experience or are you just making an assumption? I mean i agree that you dont need to burnout at the drag strip just to heat the stock rft tires up but saying that runflats will not operate better when warmed up then cold is BS. Try going out on a track (road course not drag strip) and going 10/10 when your tires are cold. I guarantee it wont grip as well as when you've been out for a few sessions and your tires are nice and warm.

This logic applies at the dragstrip. If your tires are cold, traction will be a problem at launch and everyone knows a huge part of 1/4 times are the launches. If your tires are warmed up, you will get more grip/traction during launch which brings a better 60' and overall 1/4 time.

To the OP, a burnout is completely unnecessary. Im sure the drive to the drag strip will be more then enough to get the tires to optimal operating conditions. But if your really dead set on doing a burnout, yes the left foot brake right foot gas is probably your best bet.

[LOLrance]

Originally Posted by AndrewAZ

Their is nothing high performance about the tires that come on your car... They are all season... And if I recall right have a tread rating of 400A, vs the tires that come on the E46 M3 were 200a meaning more sticky and even then a burn out was not required since they are designed for road use not track.

Hopefully more tire folks will chime in but again road tires are designed for best grip at lower temperatures.

Are you really implying that because the e46 m3's stock tires had a treadwear of 200 that lower treadwear = better grip. If we go by your logic, our runflats are actually summer tires not AS and the treadwear is 140 so again by your logic of lower treadwear equals better grip, our runflat should grip better.

[jasonn]

uhhh.... the m3 came with either pilot sport for the 18s which is 220treadwear and 19s with contisport with 280 treadwear.

[jasonn]

and also, at drag strips, from what i have seen, they do 2-3 laps of and then release the pressure when using street tires.

[AndrewAZ]

Originally Posted by l4wr3nc3

Is this from personal experience or are you just making an assumption? I mean i agree that you dont need to burnout at the drag strip just to heat the stock rft tires up but saying that runflats will not operate better when warmed up then cold is BS. Try going out on a track (road course not drag strip) and going 10/10 when your tires are cold. I guarantee it wont grip as well as when you've been out for a few sessions and your tires are nice and warm.

This logic applies at the dragstrip. If your tires are cold, traction will be a problem at launch and everyone knows a huge part of 1/4 times are the launches. If your tires are warmed up, you will get more grip/traction during launch which brings a better 60' and overall 1/4 time.

To the OP, a burnout is completely unnecessary. Im sure the drive to the drag strip will be more then enough to get the tires to optimal operating conditions. But if your really dead set on doing a burnout, yes the left foot brake right foot gas is probably your best bet.

I dont drag race much. But a guy on the mercedes forum who i believe is sponsored by tire rack wrote a guide to drag racing, and the question was asked what to do with tire prep and the answer was what I gave to skip the water box and burn out since road tires are not designed to operate at high temperatures. I have also heard this several times at the track and read online. Also another reason besides not being abel to operate at temperatures, is the water itself. Your front tires will get wet along with your back tires duh right, well you do a burn out and the water is now in the wheel well and drips back down on your rear tires and when you start to accelerate your back tires have water on them plus after you get moving you hit the patch of water from your front tires.

I have also been told that some drag strips wont let you enter the water box or do a burn out with street tires. Because of people tracking water down the track..

No tread rating of 200 or 220 ect just means it wears out faster, which can also give some indication of grip.

How about this.. When you go to your local drag racing track ask the guy during the inspection his opinion on the water box and burn out. Then ask another official. If you get the same answer from both then its good advice, if you get 2 different answers then its personal choice.

Again just go and watch.. At my local track the street cars always go around the water box and only the cars with drag tires hit the box and do a burn out.

http://abilenedragstrip.com/howtorace.html

Skip down the burn out.

Spinning the tires to clean them and to heat the rubber for better traction. Drag slicks work best at an elevated temperature. NOTE: Street tires DO NOT require a burnout. Typically, they will actually perform worse if heated. However, you are free to burn 'em down if you like. If you do not wish to make a burnout, you may drive around the water box.

http://www.dragracingweb.com/html/dr...ng_basics.html

If you are running street tires, it is a good idea to drive around the water, as street tread generally will drag water up to the starting line, and give you a poor start. The person in the burnout box will signal you when to start your burnout. Do not approach the starting line or start a burnout until instructed by start line personnel.

Again about the water in the tires^^^

[AndrewAZ]

Originally Posted by jasonn

uhhh.... the m3 came with either pilot sport for the 18s which is 220treadwear and 19s with contisport with 280 treadwear.

Mine came with the contis and were crap and didnt last 8k miles, I replaced them with PS2 which I thought were 200 rating but I cant recall.

[jasonn]

i didn't mind the contis on my m3 but both the contis and the ps1 wore out quicky.

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by AndrewAZ

I dont drag race much. But a guy on the mercedes forum who i believe is sponsored by tire rack wrote a guide to drag racing, and the question was asked what to do with tire prep and the answer was what I gave to skip the water box and burn out since road tires are not designed to operate at high temperatures. I have also heard this several times at the track and read online. Also another reason besides not being abel to operate at temperatures, is the water itself. Your front tires will get wet along with your back tires duh right, well you do a burn out and the water is now in the wheel well and drips back down on your rear tires and when you start to accelerate your back tires have water on them plus after you get moving you hit the patch of water from your front tires.

I have also been told that some drag strips wont let you enter the water box or do a burn out with street tires. Because of people tracking water down the track..

No tread rating of 200 or 220 ect just means it wears out faster, which can also give some indication of grip.

How about this.. When you go to your local drag racing track ask the guy during the inspection his opinion on the water box and burn out. Then ask another official. If you get the same answer from both then its good advice, if you get 2 different answers then its personal choice.

Again just go and watch.. At my local track the street cars always go around the water box and only the cars with drag tires hit the box and do a burn out.

http://abilenedragstrip.com/howtorace.html

Skip down the burn out.

Spinning the tires to clean them and to heat the rubber for better traction. Drag slicks work best at an elevated temperature. NOTE: Street tires DO NOT require a burnout. Typically, they will actually perform worse if heated. However, you are free to burn 'em down if you like. If you do not wish to make a burnout, you may drive around the water box.

http://www.dragracingweb.com/html/dr...ng_basics.html

If you are running street tires, it is a good idea to drive around the water, as street tread generally will drag water up to the starting line, and give you a poor start. The person in the burnout box will signal you when to start your burnout. Do not approach the starting line or start a burnout until instructed by start line personnel.

Again about the water in the tires^^^

Nobody said anything about water in this thread. I said "warming them up". No water!

Thank you for your opinion, but I think you are wrong.
Do your tires grip the same in 40F weather and in 80F weather? I guess you might not know that because you live in Arizona.
But in WA where I live, tires grip much better when the outside temp are higher.

[AndrewAZ]

Originally Posted by E90ice

Nobody said anything about water in this thread. I said "warming them up". No water!

Thank you for your opinion, but I think you are wrong.
Do your tires grip the same in 40F weather and in 80F weather? I guess you might not know that because you live in Arizona.
But in WA where I live, tires grip much better when the outside temp are higher.

It gets down to 30 F at night and during the day hits 70F. AZ has some of hte most extreme temperature differences in the USA during the day. And no you cant tell a difference. Like I said these street tires are not designed to work at high temperatures and have an operating temperature range giving maximum grip for what normal street temperatures are. I think its in in your head about felling a difference of grip, the major factor in grip of a tire is pressure as the temperature gets higher the pressure goes up in the tires, its like 1 PSI for ever 15 degrees and our BMW are very sensitive to just a few PSI off, so during my day my PSI ranges from 1-2+ depending on the temperature, we have a lot of trouble when folks fill up the pressure when its cold to the max and when it warms up BOOM their tires explode.(mostly happens on old tires that should of been replaced a long time ago)


And its not my opinion its what I have been told by people who drag race all the time, along with sites I have provided links to.

[E90ice]

ok, let's see what most people say:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112231

[DrewKo]

Well, I have drag raced my AT 335i with stock run flats. First thing, don't even worry about tire pressure bec. that matters not with a run flat tire. I won't waste the time explaining why. Second, do burn out and you can go through the water if you want. It won't matter much. Third, put the back tires just past the water spot. Then put the car into first gear and hold the brakes. Rev up to some wheel spin and begin slowly releasing the brake so that your car moves forward to the starting line area. The point is to warm up the area from where you will launch, since with the non-lsd on our cars, you are not going to get much wheel spin from one of the tires. Then, be sure you press the DTC button for 5 secs to totally disable all driver assistance. Put the car into auto shift mode in DS. Press the brake again and rev to about 1,500 up to about 2,000. Any reving about 2,500 will be counterproductive. When the lights start changing, get ready to floor the gas and release the brake.

Using this method, I got a 1.86 60' on stock run flats and wheels. http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-335i-Timeslip-13729.html Before that run, I tried a few times without a burn out and my 60's were in the 2ish range. Based on my experience, the burn outs helped traction. Whether it was from heating up the track area from where I launched, or from heating up the one tire that spins on our cars, the 60' times improved with a burn out. Good luck.

[E90ice]

Originally Posted by DrewKo

Well, I have drag raced my AT 335i with stock run flats. First thing, don't even worry about tire pressure bec. that matters not with a run flat tire. I won't waste the time explaining why. Second, do burn out and you can go through the water if you want. It won't matter much. Third, put the back tires just past the water spot. Then put the car into first gear and hold the brakes. Rev up to some wheel spin and begin slowly releasing the brake so that your car moves forward to the starting line area. The point is to warm up the area from where you will launch, since with the non-lsd on our cars, you are not going to get much wheel spin from one of the tires. Then, be sure you press the DTC button for 5 secs to totally disable all driver assistance. Put the car into auto shift mode in DS. Press the brake again and rev to about 1,500 up to about 2,000. Any reving about 2,500 will be counterproductive. When the lights start changing, get ready to floor the gas and release the brake.

Using this method, I got a 1.86 60' on stock run flats and wheels. http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-335i-Timeslip-13729.html Before that run, I tried a few times without a burn out and my 60's were in the 2ish range. Based on my experience, the burn outs helped traction. Whether it was from heating up the track area from where I launched, or from heating up the one tire that spins on our cars, the 60' times improved with a burn out. Good luck.

Thanks, man. I will definately give this a try!!

[Tuned335i]

Originally Posted by DrewKo

don't even worry about tire pressure bec. that matters not with a run flat tire.

Hey I thought I would chime in here because while that may be true for RFTs and people keep saying that with super low profile tires, reducing the pressure won't make a difference, I can say for a fact that it does with non-RFT P265-30R19s Michelin PS2s. Until a couple weeks ago I was running the recommended pressure in the manual. Then at my last trip to the track, I dropped the pressure to 28-29lbs. I didn't get any low pressure warning, but my 60' times dropped .25 sec and I ran my best 13.00 @ 109.72 still with traction control kicking in (mental note - next time out, no traction control...)

I guess it could be track prep, but it sure felt like the car hooked better with the lower pressure. Tomorrow night we'll see about getting a 1.9x or better 60' time...