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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum
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Technical: Supplemental Port Injection
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06-14-2013, 05:25 PM | #23 | ||
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The only information he's given mis a Siemens Deka Short.
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Any tuner tasked with taking this car from 450hp to 1000hp wouldn't advise methanol shot down the charge pipe to handle the remaining 550hp of fuel. On the other hand, it can be done with supplemental fueling, using an external fuel cell or fuel right out of the tank. You will see. Also keep in mind, this shop is already in the process of making a 6 port injector plate. This will cater to different people with different needs and power goals. A Throttle Body Injector works. It may not be the ultimate fuel solution, but certainly providing fueling on a more reliable basis than push lock meth nozzles. Anyone disagree with that, then keep running your windshield washer tanks and running meth lines through your interior. Good luck. |
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06-14-2013, 08:19 PM | #24 |
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Klipseracer...you are one angry dude. I can almost promise you that no one will do anything you ask, and simply because you have yet to figure out that you attract more flies with honey. Good luck with trying to bully people into being the guinea pigs for you.
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06-14-2013, 08:41 PM | #25 | |||
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E85. No meth. The limits of the fuel system are pretty high. The people who are pushing high HP out of these engines would be well advised to avoid cheap meth systems, no doubt. If you're going to offer an alternative fuel solution it should have some advantage over the better meth kits out there. Probably not a good idea to compare your prototype to the cheapest, least reliable meth kits. I'll be right alongside of you ranting about the cheap meth kits, they're garbage barely suitable for a 400hp car. |
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06-14-2013, 09:17 PM | #26 | |
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06-14-2013, 09:17 PM | #27 |
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I have semi-followed this discussion and may not remember the specifics.
If you are proposing TB injection you have to consider distribution. There is some merit to same fuel being injected as distribution of octane doesn't matter.... only fuel and with supplement to DI you'll have capacity. BUT you could have diversion between specific bank injectors which DME adjustment is based on each bank (3 cyl), not individual cyl. This would widen the lean/rich difference between cyl extremes. If you are looking for a better alternative then meth upstream, I would think 6 port injection is the only option... but this adds a crap ton more complexity. And should be monitored... similarly to progressive tuning. DME is great at running lean without raising a flag and flash tuning so far keeps or reduces stock like sensitivity. Progressive tuning meth injection is very good and is supporting upwards of 700HP and potentially more. When injected upstream this is second to DI capacity IMO. |
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06-16-2013, 04:12 AM | #28 | |
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This will be competetive and potentially complimentary to the vargas upgrade. |
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06-16-2013, 04:19 AM | #29 | |
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06-16-2013, 04:27 AM | #30 | |
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Bully people into doing this for me? I dont even have an N54 any more, what have I to gain, this is for you more than it is for me. Instead of trying to portray my defense of an idea coming to fruition, perhaps you should keep your mouth closed. |
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06-16-2013, 04:45 AM | #31 | |
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Here is a question, do you guys hope it could work well? If not, then your hoping it wont. Lets see what it can do first. Not beat it down. |
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06-16-2013, 10:07 AM | #32 |
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First off, using a tb kit as a prelude to a pi adapter makes no sense. Just do the pi in the first place. Obviously, more fuel is better if you can control the amount going into EACH cylinder. If someone could bring a kit to market that consisted of 1 injector for each cylinder and a PROPER way to control it, I would buy it.
Now, back to you being an ass hole and yelling at those who disagree with your idea on a public forum. This is a forum, where anyone can post their ideas, and their opinions on others ideas. If you don't like my opinion of your idea, good for you. I don't like your idea. See how that works? Also, without a dog in the race, why are you so up for a very temporary fueling band aid, and a poor one at that? Yes, I saw that amazing Aston making sooooo much power...but let me tell ya something. You can make a car run off carb cleaner, but that doesn't make it a good idea. Any who. Go ahead and post your next nasty reply. I bet people will jump all over the idea presented by a guy who acts like an ass hole and can't take criticism/constructive criticism. |
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06-16-2013, 10:45 AM | #33 |
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Actually TB injection would be a good and simple alternative after further though. You would not need to piggyback, but could inject based on tapping throttle and boost signals. To get more complicated, if you can vary DC, run it off boost, throttle, and rpm. The hardware would be very easy (i think) teeing off LP side.
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06-19-2013, 03:12 PM | #34 | |
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PI will only cost 5x as much if not more and be more complicated with more room for issues/failures. |
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06-19-2013, 08:42 PM | #35 |
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"Here is a question, do you guys hope it could work well? If not, then your hoping it wont. Lets see what it can do first. Not beat it down."
I'm hoping it will work well, but with most new products on this platform it will need some refinement before it's a good upgrade. This has the potential to be a great upgrade. I hope you're not discouraged by my posts, if anything I'm trying to point out the shortcomings of your system and the strengths of the competition so you can address them. If this platform is going to reach even higher HP levels it's going to need more reliable, consistent fueling and it needs to be a system that keeps the DME happy. I think we've all seen how much of a fickle bitch the DME can be when mods don't work right. |
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06-20-2013, 02:01 AM | #36 | ||||
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07-17-2013, 02:12 PM | #39 |
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What you guys are discussing has been done on 2JZs for quite some time and is part of my SC300 turbo setup. We put two 550cc supplimental fuel injectors in the pipe between the front of the throttle body and the output of the intercooler. An inexpensive Haltech fuel controller adds fuel based on boost level. It is mapped to add x amount of fuel for x psi of boost. We tapped the main fuel line with a T. The system is simple and effective and adds enough fuel for the SC300 to go from around 350whp to 550whp. The system also keeps the throttle body and valvetrain clean, which would be a big bonus for the N54 and its carbon building tendancies. On the N54 with two wideband 02 sensors controlling banks of three, my only concern would be any imbalance in the induction system. Closed loop fueling should be able to keep A/F ratios intact, IMHO.
--Scott Hureau 07 335xi 6MT JB4 92 Lexus SC300 turbo |
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07-17-2013, 07:30 PM | #40 |
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07-17-2013, 09:08 PM | #41 |
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07-18-2013, 09:01 AM | #42 |
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Lot's of jimmies getting rustled in here...
Either way, I hope something good comes our way in terms of fueling soon. Personally, I agree that methanol is great for lowering IAT's, increasing octane, or pushing RB's/VTT2's that last little bit however, I don't really see it as being a viable 'supplementary fuel system'. Sure, maybe supplemental port injection shares a common theme with methanol kits, but I think they're best suited to achieve different goals.
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07-18-2013, 09:05 AM | #43 |
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07-18-2013, 11:33 AM | #44 | |
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