[e92stance]

Originally Posted by Akleifg

"Pure BS"? Really? Cause you weren't told to change your plugs and haven't had a problem. Yes, must be "pure bs" then.

There is definitely something to changing plugs more often with an FI car....I built many turbo honda's and Nissan's over the years and literally I changed plugs almost every 10k miles (mostly due to the fact I sucked at tuning and always ran rich on most of my Hondata tunes--self taught lol) Typically my boosted cars ran awesome with fresh plugs (denso iridiums, step colder NGK's) so I kinda understand what you are talking about....

[alexchen86]

Yup as long as you are not running too rich or too lean you will be fine. JB4 is the best bang for your buck if you want it to be easily removable and cheaper than all the others. However on the 335i N55 version you do not have the toggle MAP settings you can apply with the JB4 for the 328i N54 motor.

I'm just running what Mike recommended an aFe oiled Pro5 drop in air filter as nowadays factory airboxes on sport oriented cars are not as restricted as they used to be. Then plugged in the JB4 stage one and I'm spinning tires 1st into 2nd gear. Stage 2 will be beneficial only if you plan on adding more to the motor and want to get the peak performance but that always comes at a cost you definitely don't want to blow something in the motor and BMW definitely won't cover it.

[Gon]

Originally Posted by e92stance

COBB, the afe n55 tune, or jb4? i ran jb+ on my n54 and loved it. I like the afe box they have that manipulates the tmap...sounds similiar. .I have a drop in afe filter and BMW perf exhaust (soon) also have a cpo car and need to have no BS service issues. thoughts???

I would go with Cobb for easy install/uninstall because you don't have to open the dme box. Just my opinion. I have/had a JB4 for map switching on the fly, but didn't mind the install process.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Easiest is Cobb.
But Jb4 is not hard at all to install, and is half the price with a lot more features.
Go with the JB4 pay someone 50$ and they will do the install for you.

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by e92stance

COBB, the afe n55 tune, or jb4? i ran jb+ on my n54 and loved it. I like the afe box they have that manipulates the tmap...sounds similiar. .I have a drop in afe filter and BMW perf exhaust (soon) also have a cpo car and need to have no BS service issues. thoughts???

The COBB will be the easiest to install (straight through the OBD port, never need to open the hood or use any tools) and will also be the most complete. While the piggy backs originally might have been more powerful, the COBB (and flash based tunes) are the safest way to maximize performance. Now that N55 PROtuning has been released, expect to see a lot of E9x N55s pushing over 400 WHP on stock turbos.

The N54 went through the same process, where the piggys were the most powerful until COBB released PROtuning. From there, its become common that COBB tuned cars are outperforming piggy's. IN addition, piggy back vendors have started pushing backend flashes to safely make adjustments to fueling, timing, VANOS tables, which becomes necessary when using E85. SO the argument that it's cheaper goes to $hit when you end up having to buy 2 tunes. Also, the piggy backs give incomplete datalogging and are much more difficult to read any fault codes off of.

Originally Posted by JETmn

I have read several places that there is a counter in the ECU on how many times it has been flashed. I haven't seen it first hand, but reputable sources backed up it. Normally a dealership wouldn't dig that deep, but the factory guy might if you have a major repair (engine, tranny, etc).

This is false. When the COBB is installed, it "freezes" the counter and returns to the exact same number when it's uninstalled. I've had COBB for over a year, the car is regularly maintained by a BMW dealer and they've never said anything about a tune being installed or voiding any warranty/service coverage. In addition to regular maintenance, I've also had a low pressure fuel sensor, 6 injectors, 2 turbos & a DME update. The dealer has never said anything about the car being tuned or detecting any aftermarket "tampering".

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

The COBB will be the easiest to install (straight through the OBD port, never need to open the hood or use any tools) and will also be the most complete. While the piggy backs originally might have been more powerful, the COBB (and flash based tunes) are the safest way to maximize performance. Now that N55 PROtuning has been released, expect to see a lot of E9x N55s pushing over 400 WHP on stock turbos.

The N54 went through the same process, where the piggys were the most powerful until COBB released PROtuning. From there, its become common that COBB tuned cars are outperforming piggy's. IN addition, piggy back vendors have started pushing backend flashes to safely make adjustments to fueling, timing, VANOS tables, which becomes necessary when using E85. SO the argument that it's cheaper goes to $hit when you end up having to buy 2 tunes. Also, the piggy backs give incomplete datalogging and are much more difficult to read any fault codes off of.



This is false. When the COBB is installed, it "freezes" the counter and returns to the exact same number when it's uninstalled. I've had COBB for over a year, the car is regularly maintained by a BMW dealer and they've never said anything about a tune being installed or voiding any warranty/service coverage. In addition to regular maintenance, I've also had a low pressure fuel sensor, 6 injectors, 2 turbos & a DME update. The dealer has never said anything about the car being tuned or detecting any aftermarket "tampering".

Actually, piggybacks like the JB4 still dominate the N54 performance grid. It is uncommon that a Cobb tuned car would outperform a JB4 tuned car, for example. At the last runway race BMS attended there were around 11 N54s running JB4s, 2 of whom had ditched Cobb pro tunes because of their subpar performance in the previous race. There were zero people actually competing with Cobb pro tunes in the race.

The N54 market has moved on from Cobb now. The N54s have $free$ flash software now so you don't need a Cobb to flash tune them. Most of the piggybacks also include $free$ flash maps that give you the best of both the flash and piggyback worlds.

As far as the N55 goes, the Cobb flash tuning is very limited currently. It will improve with time but it's going to be some time before it can compete with piggybacks for performance. And by then N55s should have free flash software available as well.

Mike

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

The N54 market has moved on from Cobb now. The N54s have $free$ flash software now so you don't need a Cobb to flash tune them. Most of the piggybacks also include $free$ flash maps that give you the best of both the flash and piggyback worlds.

Interesting, because all I've heard & seen from the "free" BB flash is that people are still having trouble installing it, in addition to it not successfully adjusting the fueling tables when people try to run the E85 map.

It's also pretty skewed for you to reference people competing at a Shift Sector event where there's a very limited amount of N54s competing, which isn't really an accurate depiction of the tuning market.

Bottom line is let the data speak for itself. COBB right now is still the most (and only) proven product for adjusting the DME tables for fueling, ignition and VANOS. It still has the record for being tuning module that powers the most powerful TT system, and it's no incident that CPE has publicly stated their TT kits will originally come with COBB support.

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

Interesting, because all I've heard & seen from the "free" BB flash is that people are still having trouble installing it, in addition to it not successfully adjusting the fueling tables when people try to run the E85 map.

It's also pretty skewed for you to reference people competing at a Shift Sector event where there's a very limited amount of N54s competing, which isn't really an accurate depiction of the tuning market.

Bottom line is let the data speak for itself. COBB right now is still the most (and only) proven product for adjusting the DME tables for fueling, ignition and VANOS. It still has the record for being tuning module that powers the most powerful TT system, and it's no incident that CPE has publicly stated their TT kits will originally come with COBB support.

Not following you on the free flash stuff. There are over 1000 people running the JB4 back end flash maps now without issue and that is just a small subset of the people using the free software. It loads and works great and you can set the fueling and scalars same as Cobb.

Like anything people who can't figure it out throw up posts asking for help. I would not be surprised to hear a few people are confused on how to use it properly and how to set up their laptops for it just like a few people are confused on how to open up Cobb maps in ATR and modify their fuel scalars.

Probably over 50 N54s now are using TunerPro based free software and piggybacks to tune their large single turbo cars. And JB4s own all the N54 factory turbo and hybrid turbo records.

If you're talking about the N54 Vargas turbo kit the one car that had it was tuned only via Cobb. No other tuners have even looked at it and frankly I think its looking unlikely that kit will ever be released. The Cobb tuners who tuned it even jumped over to another turbo kit now since its taking so long to come out. On CPEs kit if that ever comes out who knows how it will be tuned. In their written statement they state it will be support by BMS and tuned via a JB4 as well.

It's clear you're a Cobb fan and there is nothing wrong with that but if you are trying to suggest Cobb is the future of the N54 market in my opinion it's time came and went.

Mike

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

Not following you on the free flash stuff. There are over 1000 people running the JB4 back end flash maps now without issue and that is just a small subset of the people using the free software. It loads and works great and you can set the fueling and scalars same as Cobb.

I would link to all the "problem" threads on another forum, but I'm not looking to get banned.

And while you think COBB has had it's time, it's indisputable that because of them that we even have flash tuning (that actually works). And while the other flash options are sufficient, they will never have the customer service or constant updates that COBB will continue to offer to its customers.

There's a reason that COBB is probably the most popular tuning module for the platforms it supports -- BMW, GTR & EVOs & Subaru's. It's kinda amazing that you think that COBB's time has passed considering their still the most user friendly and reputation in the tuning community (not just BMW) stands heads, shoulders & then some over the other products offered on this platform. In fact, it's the piggys that usually die out -- They died out on the Turbo E46 M3 market, they died out on the UGR TT-Gs when they moved to Motec, and without flash based tunes they would've died out on the N54.

And regarding records, it's not really "credible" when those records are held by the tuners who aren't afraid to run tunes that they wouldn't recommend to their customers. But that's what sells products...


PS -- It's kinda obvious you're a BMS supporter (just look at your sig and the product you're pushing), which as a vendor has the potential to be a lot more "misleading" then a forum member citing data and shared user experiences.

[e92stance]

Lol damn....all great posts here. I see the advantages of both obviously. Keep going I like this debate.

[JETmn]

Originally Posted by Mit_Boost

This is false. When the COBB is installed, it "freezes" the counter and returns to the exact same number when it's uninstalled. I've had COBB for over a year, the car is regularly maintained by a BMW dealer and they've never said anything about a tune being installed or voiding any warranty/service coverage. In addition to regular maintenance, I've also had a low pressure fuel sensor, 6 injectors, 2 turbos & a DME update. The dealer has never said anything about the car being tuned or detecting any aftermarket "tampering".

Just because you haven't been busted, that makes this false? Have you had a tranny or engine replaced where the factory rep actually came out and looked at the car? You talk below about 1 race with 11 cars being a bad data point. How bad of a data point is 1 car?!?

[JAL0988]

Originally Posted by JYohay

from my understanding that is untrue.
cobb does not leave any traces.

Cobb does leave traces. There is a counter on how many times the ECU has been flashed. Though it requires them to actually look into a little more than they normally do.

[WildBee659]

Originally Posted by e92stance

seriously considering the BMW ppk even though its not as powerful as everything else out there. got a 699$ deal in it. I know there us a Bmw perf exhaust (ordered already) is there a BMW perf intake for my 2011 e92 335 msport ?

I'm satisfied with the PPK and BMW PE. There are less expensive tunes giving more HP but you may void the warranty. The car runs great and no issues with it, and no warranty worries! There are many tunes out there and it all depends on what you want.

[Mit_Boost]

Originally Posted by JETmn

Just because you haven't been busted, that makes this false? Have you had a tranny or engine replaced where the factory rep actually came out and looked at the car? You talk below about 1 race with 11 cars being a bad data point. How bad of a data point is 1 car?!?

BMW NA sent a tech to look at my car for 5 weeks because of a fueling issue (maxed trims w/ solid fuel pressure). They said nothing about the tune or DME flash count being "off".

[Give_Em_The_DD]

Originally Posted by alexchen86

335 M Sport is definitely the way to go. Not as brutally angry like most tuned M3's....I prefer a sleeper with just enough punch to pin you back and eat most other spot compacts out there alive.

My F30 335i and as soon as we took her through some twisties and a hard straight I was sold on the 335i Sportline. I was comparing that to an M Sport 328i.

SO GLAD I WENT 335i!! N55 trumps the N54 and gas mileage in comfort mode is only 1-2 mpg off.

N55 trump n54? How so?