[Dave W.]

Originally Posted by jpsimon

+1 you need at the VERY least a clipped turbine, even still at this point in the game a full upgrade is key

Which begs the question; Would stock turbos pick up power with just a clipped turbine wheel when tuned for high boost?
The reason I ask is because there's a lot more exhaust going through the turbine wheel when the boost is cranked up. Maybe just removing a little exhaust restriction will free up some power on the same compressor? Test that first, then test a clipped turbine wheel with the funky bat wing compressor.

[Dr. G]

Originally Posted by Dave W.

Which begs the question; Would stock turbos pick up power with just a clipped turbine wheel when tuned for high boost?
The reason I ask is because there's a lot more exhaust going through the turbine wheel when the boost is cranked up. Maybe just removing a little exhaust restriction will free up some power on the same compressor? Test that first, then test a clipped turbine wheel with the funky bat wing compressor.

I've been wondering the same. OP should next pioneer that project since labour cost for installs isn't an issue

[rader1]

Originally Posted by Dave W.

Which begs the question; Would stock turbos pick up power with just a clipped turbine wheel when tuned for high boost?
The reason I ask is because there's a lot more exhaust going through the turbine wheel when the boost is cranked up. Maybe just removing a little exhaust restriction will free up some power on the same compressor? Test that first, then test a clipped turbine wheel with the funky bat wing compressor.

I'm fairly certain that's what the Helix turbos are(not the batmowheel part.) I have yet to see any dyno graphs showing results of the Helix turbos on any of the current tunes, despite my attempts to get in touch with Helix through email.

When it comes times for my turbos to be replaced i'd be interested in the Helix units as far as value goes. However, if they lose or just maintain the same power as the stocker then i'd like to know before dumping the extra dough.

[ETS Michael]

Originally Posted by rader1

I'm fairly certain that's what the Helix turbos are(not the batmowheel part.) I have yet to see any dyno graphs showing results of the Helix turbos on any of the current tunes, despite my attempts to get in touch with Helix through email.

When it comes times for my turbos to be replaced i'd be interested in the Helix units as far as value goes. However, if they lose or just maintain the same power as the stocker then i'd like to know before dumping the extra dough.

They may be the FP units.

http://store.forcedperformance.net/m...=Turbo-Upgrade

If you scroll to the bottom.

Twin 55HTA TD03 upgraded turbos for BMW 335i & 135i - $2250.00

Thanks for posting this up OP. I noticed the wheel a couple days ago on the TC.com website.

[jpsimon]

Originally Posted by rader1

I'm fairly certain that's what the Helix turbos are(not the batmowheel part.) I have yet to see any dyno graphs showing results of the Helix turbos on any of the current tunes, despite my attempts to get in touch with Helix through email.

When it comes times for my turbos to be replaced i'd be interested in the Helix units as far as value goes. However, if they lose or just maintain the same power as the stocker then i'd like to know before dumping the extra dough.

Waste of time, the Helix ones are essentially the same as the EPL/Tial ones. If you're going to spend the time and money to replace the turbos you might as well get a full upgrade (asr, rb, single turbo).

[unoriginal]

How long did the turbo removal and re-install take you?

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by themyst

They are already prebalanced, direct swap and replace. I have experience with this setup.

I will repeat, the stock turbine is your bottleneck. If it's possible to clip the stock turbine wheel, then you MIGHT gain a little power out of these things. Then you have to account for the wastegates.

I don't mean to rain on your parade OP, but prepare to be disappointed. You will LOSE power. I showed you my results.

As far as balancing. This is NOT the case at all. If you remove the compressor wheel and do not rebalance you are rolling the dice 100%, some will end up close and be fine others will be way out and end up eating themselves quicker then if you had them balanced. We have a quite a bit of experience with the "batmo" Wheel in the diesel industry, complete and total gimmick, makes no extra power, in most cases makes less power. Its a simple case of, if this "batmo" wheel design is so efficient and so much better then a standard 6x6 blade, or 11 blade wheel, why are none of the big boys, Garrett, BW, Holset, MHI, who spend tens of millions on wheel design and testing using a batmo wheel? That says all you need to know. Anytime you remove a wheel from a turbocharger stack it needs to be rebalanced, period. They are balanced separately from the factory sure, but once they become a set, they are balanced together, then the entire CHRA is balanced, if you disturb any of that, they need to be rebalanced. People can tell you otherwise, any real turbo shop will tell you this. You do speak the truth on the exhaust being the bottle neck, going with the same size comp wheel in the "crapmo" design as a lot of people in the diesel industry have dubbed them, is not going to help you at all.

[007_e350]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

As far as balancing. This is NOT the case at all. If you remove the compressor wheel and do not rebalance you are rolling the dice 100%, some will end up close and be fine others will be way out and end up eating themselves quicker then if you had them balanced. We have a quite a bit of experience with the "batmo" Wheel in the diesel industry, complete and total gimmick, makes no extra power, in most cases makes less power. Its a simple case of, if this "batmo" wheel design is so efficient and so much better then a standard 6x6 blade, or 11 blade wheel, why are none of the big boys, Garrett, BW, Holset, MHI, who spend tens of millions on wheel design and testing using a batmo wheel? That says all you need to know. Anytime you remove a wheel from a turbocharger stack it needs to be rebalanced, period. They are balanced separately from the factory sure, but once they become a set, they are balanced together, then the entire CHRA is balanced, if you disturb any of that, they need to be rebalanced. People can tell you otherwise, any real turbo shop will tell you this. You do speak the truth on the exhaust being the bottle neck, going with the same size comp wheel in the "crapmo" design as a lot of people in the diesel industry have dubbed them, is not going to help you at all.

+1 the whole CHRA is supposed to be balanced - but the OP's problem is loss of power, curious if the OP thought abt grinding the inners and putting a bigger wheel, the downside is increased spoolup time

[M3Tuner44]

Originally Posted by 007_e350

+1 the whole CHRA is supposed to be balanced - but the OP's problem is loss of power, curious if the OP thought abt grinding the inners and putting a bigger wheel, the downside is increased spoolup time

I had the assembly balanced and the turbine wheels were clipped. The car did make more power once they were clipped, and considerably more when I installed the full exhaust after the clipped turbine wheels. Then of course even more when I fed her some Meth. There wasn't a big change in spool-up time since the turbos are considerably small.

[Tony@vargasturbotech]

Originally Posted by M3Tuner44

Well it has been on other cars with larger turbos and they worked fine.

We have never seen a Batmo wheel do anything besides make the same power or less, never more, on quite a few different platforms. You did the right thing, taking them back apart, balancing them, and clipping. You basically now have half of a stage 1 set up, clipped turbine wheels but stock sized compressors. The clipping should help with the back pressure, and exhaust flow through the turbo.

[M3Tuner44]

Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech

We have never seen a Batmo wheel do anything besides make the same power or less, never more, on quite a few different platforms. You did the right thing, taking them back apart, balancing them, and clipping. You basically now have half of a stage 1 set up, clipped turbine wheels but stock sized compressors. The clipping should help with the back pressure, and exhaust flow through the turbo.

Yes it definatelly helped especially when combined with the exhaust and the high flow cats.

[Aerotest]

Clipping improves exhaust flow but decreases adiabatic effeciency. It is a penalized improvement. Would like to see a compressor map or turbine map for any of these so called stage upgrades......you know like the "big boys" do.

[Stan.mac]

Has there been any update on this from MeTuner44? I'm so glad I found this post because I almost jumped into buying the compressor wheel used by OP for the same exact upgrade. I now have a set of turbos sitting around, also a set of TD04L 14T centers that I'm trying to mate up. Has anyone done/completed this setup before? Vargas you mentioned "half of a stage 1 setup" if you don't mind, can you explain what the other half is?