[DbLog]

So after playing around with the 335d for a few days I've concluded the HK doesn't sound that good. There just aren't enough options to dial it in. To be a serious system there needs to be some parametric bands with adjustable q...well I could even settle for a 2/3 octave graph.

People talk about 'flat' and define it in different ways. To me flat means what goes in is what comes out. Depending on the speakers and listening environment 'flat' is not desirable in the consumer world. It usually sounds horrible but I'll blame Fletcher and Munson for that.

I had some time today to take a look at things. Place an Earthworks M30 flush with the headrest to negate as many reflections as possible.



Next I hooked up a dual FFT and got some baseline traces. Here's one of the car with no eq.



To see how wide the q is on the graphic eq I did a 1k full boost and full cut.





It's clear the bandwidth is too wide for any sort of serious eq shaping. It would be nice to have some control over 2.5k and 3.15k. Here's a pict of the high shelf at max boost. Notice how far down into the midrange the shelf is.



I know there are trade offs with car audio but I don't understand what all the fuss is with these stereos. My B5 S4 sounded better. I'm an audio snob but not a car audio snob. I was just expecting a car of this caliber to have a better system.

[kaigoss69]

In car audio you don't want in = out because it will sound like poop!

[mathematics]

A few years late to the party lol

[DbLog]

Originally Posted by mathematics

A few years late to the party lol

from another thread...

Originally Posted by DbLog

Since I feel like I'm late to the party and would like to contribute something, I made a post on our stereos.

lol

[cdgatti]

I think what is meant by the responses you have received is that yes we know, no one who likes good audio in their car is happy with the stock system, whether it be the HK or the hifi. That's why this forum is so popular, many people trying to enhance their car's capabilities.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by DbLog

Since I feel like I'm late to the party and would like to contribute something I made a post on our stereos.

Next time bring Doritos instead...

[ewodzien]

As a 335d owner with the HK system, I really appreciate the post.

Sure, I'm late to the party as well as this exact topic has been brought up several times before.

However, I purchased the HK system mainly for the Logic7 processing and subs under the seats as well as the larger amplifier.

I am by no means an audio snob, but being an engineer, I do appreciate good sound.

IMHO, the HK system brings a bit more "depth" over the stock system mainly due to the subs. Also I think that the L7 processing really shines with certain audio sources.

Please keep us posted on "suggested settings" for our HK systems.

-Ed

[JazStar740]

Originally Posted by ewodzien

As a 335d owner with the HK system, I really appreciate the post.

Sure, I'm late to the party as well as this exact topic has been brought up several times before.

However, I purchased the HK system mainly for the Logic7 processing and subs under the seats as well as the larger amplifier.

I am by no means an audio snob, but being an engineer, I do appreciate good sound.

IMHO, the HK system brings a bit more "depth" over the stock system mainly due to the subs. Also I think that the L7 processing really shines with certain audio sources.

Please keep us posted on "suggested settings" for our HK systems.

-Ed

As an 2011 335is owner with the HK Logic7 system I also was unimpressed with the sound at higher volumes. I finally took the plunge and did the BSW Stage One upgrade and was thrilled with the sound except for when the underseat woofers started clipping. I finally replaced the underseat woofers with the Earthquake SWS8's and at first rode around for weeks unhappy with the sound, no matter how much tuning I did and even changed amps but the sound was just not right, until a few days ago.... I changed the phase on one of the subs...... NOW I am THRILLED with the sound!!!!! I was going to add a 10" sub in the ski pass, but now I am torn with that thought, because I really do not need it. Only problem is I already have the amp for the sub mounted and have already started the process of fiber glassing the box for the sub.

[DbLog]

I like the imaging with the L7 system. One of the main drawbacks to sound in an automobile is the many sources (speakers) interacting. 740 mentioned phase. To be picky I'll say that there is a difference between polarity and phase. Aligning subwoofers should be properly done by aligning phase through the crossover. I'm not sure which ones or if any aftermarket systems do this. Ideally it would have to be done in real time on a case by case basis. Great care should be taken in hp/lp filter selection, delay or possibly an all pass filter.

I'm working on a setting and think it's pretty close but am still not happy. Not sure if I ever will be. Fwiw I setup and tear down PA's on a daily basis. Different application but the physics are the same. Mainly arrival times such as mains to subs to tweeters in our cars really need to be setup properly or time smear will become a major issue. Can't mess with physics.

740, If you add another sub be mindful of aligning it to the existing system. Just putting it in and turning it on will most likely cause problems at certain frequencies.

Here's a pict of a what can be a typical day in my life.

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by DbLog

I like the imaging with the L7 system. One of the main drawbacks to sound in an automobile is the many sources (speakers) interacting. 740 mentioned phase. To be picky I'll say that there is a difference between polarity and phase. Aligning subwoofers should be properly done by aligning phase through the crossover. I'm not sure which ones or if any aftermarket systems do this. Ideally it would have to be done in real time on a case by case basis. Great care should be taken in hp/lp filter selection, delay or possibly an all pass filter.

I'm working on a setting and think it's pretty close but am still not happy. Not sure if I ever will be. Fwiw I setup and tear down PA's on a daily basis. Different application but the physics are the same. Mainly arrival times such as mains to subs to tweeters in our cars really need to be setup properly or time smear will become a major issue. Can't mess with physics.

740, If you add another sub be mindful of aligning it to the existing system. Just putting it in and turning it on will most likely cause problems at certain frequencies.

Here's a pict of a what can be a typical day in my life.

Good discussion going on - will have to keep all of this in mind when I get an upgraded system with my next car.

And is that picture from SPAC in Saratoga?

[gilly22]

Wow, I guess I have terrible taste when it comes to car stereo's because I absolutely love the HK system in my 2011 328. All I ended up doing is copying one of the threads on this forum which had a "general" list of the EQ settings etc. I thought it sounded pretty damn good. I've read a ton of threads about these systems and how most people think they are weak...guess I'm the minority.

[JazStar740]

Originally Posted by gilly22

Wow, I guess I have terrible taste when it comes to car stereo's because I absolutely love the HK system in my 2011 328. All I ended up doing is copying one of the threads on this forum which had a "general" list of the EQ settings etc. I thought it sounded pretty damn good. I've read a ton of threads about these systems and how most people think they are weak...guess I'm the minority.

I agree with you in the sound was great, but just at lower volume... Once I would turn it up a little, especially with the roof dropped, I would get all sorts of clipping. Now roof dropped, music up... What a pleasure!!!

[spuntyb]

Originally Posted by gilly22

Wow, I guess I have terrible taste when it comes to car stereo's because I absolutely love the HK system in my 2011 328. All I ended up doing is copying one of the threads on this forum which had a "general" list of the EQ settings etc. I thought it sounded pretty damn good. I've read a ton of threads about these systems and how most people think they are weak...guess I'm the minority.

You're actually in the majority in that you aren't a sound engineer. Most of the folks who don't like the HK setup either have experience working with sound systems or simply have a stronger sense of what they like, and the HK doesn't happen to match it. For the other 95% of us, the HK system sounds great after some simple fine-tuning.

[DbLog]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

And is that picture from SPAC in Saratoga?

It's Freedom Hill in Utica...most sheds do look the same

I mentioned phase earlier and would like to elaborate. First thing to take into account in listening position. For us that's pretty easy since 99.9% would say the drivers seat. Here's a pict of a phase wheel. 0deg is the same as 360deg and 720deg but 360deg would be one cycle behind and 720deg is 2 cycles behind.



Take note that a signal can arrive at the same time but be 180deg out of phase, or out of polarity. Chances are arrival times are somewhere between 0deg and 180deg. Where they fall in the phase wheel depends on the amount of destructive addition. Yes, the waves are adding but just destructively.

Using an additional sub as an example: To make the sub align with the rest of the system is on a case by case basis. There's no one way to do this but polarity reversal and delay are tools that can be implemented. If the processing doesn't have delay the sub can always be moved to properly align is with the rest of the system.

Hope some people find this helpful

[DbLog]

Thought I'd revive this thread...Here's what I've come up with as a pretty good happy medium.

Treble +5
Bass 0
100 -3
200 -4
500 -3
1k -1
2k -5
5k -4
10k -5

L7 surround: check