[unrulyteach]

So the others day I decided to switch my rear wheels with my front wheels because of thread life so as I am driving I feel vibration in the steering wheel at certain speeds that wasn't there before and the car is pulling hard to the left. Any ideas why.

[Greyfox]

Yep... and get it done at some place that is reputable and not the local Wallie World

[unrulyteach]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Yep... and get it done at some place that is reputable and not the local Wallie World

That's what I had thought I needed. But other than those two problems the car feels better after I switch the wheels

[unrulyteach]

Is tire town a reputable shop I usually use blackstires but they close at one and my Indy is close today also

[Wilt]

BMW ordinarily advises to NOT do a front-rear rotation!

[unrulyteach]

Originally Posted by Wilt

BMW ordinarily advises to NOT do a front-rear rotation!

Huh?

[Wilt]

Originally Posted by Wilt

BMW ordinarily advises to NOT do a front-rear rotation!

Originally Posted by unrulyteach

Huh?

Owner Manual...
"Swapping wheels between axles
BMW advises against swapping wheels
between the front and rear axles, even if all tires
have the same size, as this could impair driving
characteristics. If the tires are of mixed sizes,
swapping wheels between the axles is not permissible."

[unrulyteach]

Originally Posted by Wilt

Owner Manual...
"Swapping wheels between axles
BMW advises against swapping wheels
between the front and rear axles, even if all tires
have the same size, as this could impair driving
characteristics. If the tires are of mixed sizes,
swapping wheels between the axles is not permissible."

I don't see that. What page should I refer too

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by Wilt

Owner Manual...
"Swapping wheels between axles
BMW advises against swapping wheels
between the front and rear axles, even if all tires
have the same size, as this could impair driving
characteristics. If the tires are of mixed sizes,
swapping wheels between the axles is not permissible."

What owners manual is that in? Because it is not in 2007 328i/328xi manual that I have.

[Digtlartst]

Hmm... in rereading my 2011 328xi sedan owners manual I found that advisory on page 224. Apparently my BMW dealer doesn't agree since it's offered as a standard service. I recently swapped front-back after about 10k mi on the tires and the result actually was better "driving characteristics."

[unrulyteach]

Originally Posted by Digtlartst

Hmm... in rereading my 2011 328xi sedan owners manual I found that advisory on page 224. Apparently my BMW dealer doesn't agree since it's offered as a standard service. I recently swapped front-back after about 10k mi on the tires and the result actually was better "driving characteristics."

Same here man my car feels so much better, just need to balance it

[Digtlartst]

If I recall my dealer also recommended a 4-wheel alignment with the wheel swap but I passed and said if the car feels weird I'll come back for alignment.

[unrulyteach]

Originally Posted by Digtlartst

If I recall my dealer also recommended a 4-wheel alignment with the wheel swap but I passed and said if the car feels weird I'll come back for alignment.

I had just aligned mines like 2 months ago at bmw

[Wilt]

Originally Posted by Digtlartst

Hmm... in rereading my 2011 328xi sedan owners manual I found that advisory on page 224. Apparently my BMW dealer doesn't agree since it's offered as a standard service. I recently swapped front-back after about 10k mi on the tires and the result actually was better "driving characteristics."

And looking even in a pre-LCI 3 Series owner manual it can be found. For the 2008 owner manual, page 223. Anyone with a PDF can Find 'swapping'

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by Wilt

And looking even in a pre-LCI 3 Series owner manual it can be found. For the 2008 owner manual, page 223. Anyone with a PDF can Find 'swapping'

The 2007 3-series owner's manual for sedan and sport wagon does not have it. The 2008 does..... page 220 before the snow chains section.

[Wilt]

Originally Posted by Greyfox

The 2007 3-series owner's manual for sedan and sport wagon does not have it. The 2008 does..... page 220 before the snow chains section.

Strangely, while 2008 and beyond tell you the BMW recommendation TO NOT ROTATE, similarly the earlier 3 series manuals also do explicitly DO NOT RECOMMEND TIRE ROTATION either, like this from the 2001 3Series owner manual (E46), I wonder if it is accidentally omitted from the very earliest E90 manuals:

Tire Rotation
Between the axles
The tread wear patterns at the front end
differ from those at the rear – the actual
patterns will vary according to individual
driving conditions. In the interests
of safety and maintaining optimal
handling characteristics, tire rotation is
not recommended.
If a proposed interaxle rotation of tires
is based on economic considerations,
one should consider whether the costs
for the rotation are likely to be recaptured
by any increase in the service life
of the tires that might be realized. In
principle, interaxle rotation must be
performed in short intervals, with a
maximum of 3,000 miles (5,000 km).
Consult your BMW center for more
information.
Should you decide to rotate the tires, it
is essential to comply with the following:
Rotate tires on the same side only, since
braking characteristics and road grip
could otherwise be adversely affected.
Following rotation, the tire inflation
pressure should always be corrected.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Wilt

Strangely, while 2008 and beyond tell you the BMW recommendation TO NOT ROTATE, similarly the earlier 3 series manuals also do explicitly DO NOT RECOMMEND TIRE ROTATION either, like this from the 2001 3Series owner manual (E46), I wonder if it is accidentally omitted from the very earliest E90 manuals:

Tire Rotation
Between the axles
The tread wear patterns at the front end
differ from those at the rear – the actual
patterns will vary according to individual
driving conditions. In the interests
of safety and maintaining optimal
handling characteristics, tire rotation is
not recommended.
If a proposed interaxle rotation of tires
is based on economic considerations,
one should consider whether the costs
for the rotation are likely to be recaptured
by any increase in the service life
of the tires that might be realized. In
principle, interaxle rotation must be
performed in short intervals, with a
maximum of 3,000 miles (5,000 km).
Consult your BMW center for more
information.
Should you decide to rotate the tires, it
is essential to comply with the following:
Rotate tires on the same side only, since
braking characteristics and road grip
could otherwise be adversely affected.
Following rotation, the tire inflation
pressure should always be corrected.

It's as if BMW is living in the 1970's. I remember asking the forum how do you mark your ZSP tires (grease pencil, tire crayon, blah blah blah). A forum member goes why do you need to? I said I don't want to move tires from the left side to the right. He goes why? They're not directional, what difference does it make? Sure enough, this was a 1970's thing where you don't want to reverse the direction of the tires to save the belts from shifting.

I wouldn't rotate them since they're staggered, and I still like to keep them rotating the same way, for no good reason in reality.

[unrulyteach]

I switch them as left front with left back so the tires are rotating same as they would if I didn't

[Wilt]

Originally Posted by John 070

It's as if BMW is living in the 1970's. I remember asking the forum how do you mark your ZSP tires (grease pencil, tire crayon, blah blah blah). A forum member goes why do you need to? I said I don't want to move tires from the left side to the right. He goes why? They're not directional, what difference does it make? Sure enough, this was a 1970's thing where you don't want to reverse the direction of the tires to save the belts from shifting.

I wouldn't rotate them since they're staggered, and I still like to keep them rotating the same way, for no good reason in reality.

The logic that I have read says that tire rotation is of marginal value in terms of saving you money. Why? Because the cost of tire rotation roughly equals the amount you'd save by extending your tire life. If the wheels are coming off anyway for something else, the the cost of the rotation is 'free'.
Then there is the fact that for a while after rotation, the adhesion is POORER because the car sits on the tread differently, and that compromises handling.
And lastly, BMW figures that anyone who buys a BMW places handling above a few bucks of tread wear.

Remember, after all, that you are driving the Ultimate Driving Machine, and why on earth would BMW want you to compromise THAT with a few bucks saved in longer tread life, particularly if you have to spend money to get more tread wear!

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Wilt

The logic that I have read says that tire rotation is of marginal value in terms of saving you money. Why? Because the cost of tire rotation roughly equals the amount you'd save by extending your tire life. If the wheels are coming off anyway for something else, the the cost of the rotation is 'free'.
Then there is the fact that for a while after rotation, the adhesion is POORER because the car sits on the tread differently, and that compromises handling.
And lastly, BMW figures that anyone who buys a BMW places handling above a few bucks of tread wear.

Remember, after all, that you are driving the Ultimate Driving Machine, and why on earth would BMW want you to compromise THAT with a few bucks saved in longer tread life, particularly if you have to spend money to get more tread wear!

I experimented with my FWD 98 Nissan....without any rotating, the fronts were shot in 22k, which equates to the fronts wearing 3X as fast as the rear. On a FWD car I would definitely rotate, on a E9x with ZSP, I wouldn't bother, and just me, I like to keep the tires on the same side of the car to keep the rotation the same, EVEN THOUGH THE TIRES ARE NOT DIRECTIONAL (neither the RE9050A's nor the PSSs are directional)...so even though the snows are square, I still keep them on the same side of the car, BUT I do move them from front to rear and the other way around each season...

[unrulyteach]

Originally Posted by John 070

I experimented with my FWD 98 Nissan....without any rotating, the fronts were shot in 22k, which equates to the fronts wearing 3X as fast as the rear. On a FWD car I would definitely rotate, on a E9x with ZSP, I wouldn't bother, and just me, I like to keep the tires on the same side of the car to keep the rotation the same, EVEN THOUGH THE TIRES ARE NOT DIRECTIONAL (neither the RE9050A's nor the PSSs are directional)...so even though the snows are square, I still keep them on the same side of the car, BUT I do move them from front to rear and the other way around each season...

Of course I wouldn't put the right front on the left rear. Switch left front with left rear and right front with right rear