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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > HELP with Koni and H&R sports



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      11-07-2016, 09:27 PM   #23
SE7EN335
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I bought some Koni Yellows and Eibach Pro kit as well and switched them from the crappy BC coilovers and replaced all the strut mounts, coil spring perches, bumpstops etc etc. I took the adjustable end links off the BC coilovers and replaced with my old stock sway bar end links. It rode beautifully for the first 5 days until about 500kms worth of use on them then the front starting getting clunky and rode a bit harsher and bumpier than usual. The rear still rode absolutely fine. I jacked up the car and saw the old stock sway bar end links had black fluid leaking out of them. So I replaced the sway bar end links with Meyle HD sway bar end links, and the clunkiness was gone and the ride quality was very noticeably better and was back to normal.

Look at your sway bar end links as well.
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      11-07-2016, 09:29 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camman View Post
Did you have sport or non sport suspension, prior? If you had non sport then it'll be a pretty dramatic difference going from non sport springs to H&R. If you want to feel stiff, ride in my car with BC coils on a bad road. On the highway, though, they ride better than my sport suspension imo. I would think H&R and Konis would be much more forgiving than my BC's.

Have you replaced your front control arms yet? I just replaced mine and my ride feels even better now. It feels much smoother.
Do the front control arms really make that much of a difference in smoothness of ride? My upper front control arms were leaking a while ago and I changed them and the ride quality didn't feel any smoother, just more stable during handling. Maybe changing bad lower front control arms would make it feel smoother?
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      11-08-2016, 10:02 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camman View Post
Did you have sport or non sport suspension, prior? If you had non sport then it'll be a pretty dramatic difference going from non sport springs to H&R. If you want to feel stiff, ride in my car with BC coils on a bad road. On the highway, though, they ride better than my sport suspension imo. I would think H&R and Konis would be much more forgiving than my BC's.

Have you replaced your front control arms yet? I just replaced mine and my ride feels even better now. It feels much smoother.
I haven't changed my front control arms because I don't see any visible leaks, but I have wanted to upgrade to the m3 arms. I'm sure that will tighten up the front end, but the rear is the many issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camman View Post
I didn't re-read through the comments but did you get an alignment? Anytime you change suspension components, you need to get an alignment. Every time. A bad alignment can throw off the handling characteristics pretty dramatically. Our cars are pretty sensitive to alignment changes.

If you have gotten alignment, post the alignment sheet.

Subframe bushings can help tighten up the rear end. Though, I have 112k miles and I'm still on original subframe and control arm components in the rear and it still handles fine for street use.
I have had numerous alignments after each tweak to the suspension as I didn't want to ruin my tires. I have the Whiteline inserts that I want to put in just to see if their is a slight difference. If it does make a difference then maybe next spring I will upgrade to the M3 subframe bushings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
I know what you're talking about with the low speed bumpiness. This is going to be an adjustment needed in the shocks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
Honestly, you are going to have to play around with it, 1 setting at a time.

Going full soft or full hard is usually not where you want to be with any adjustable shock. Start at the halfway mark then go 1 more setting softer.
Yea I guess I will have to make adjustments to the shocks. I just wish I didn't have to removing the shocks every time. I wish their was adjustments like the front for the rear.
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      11-08-2016, 10:05 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE7EN335 View Post
I bought some Koni Yellows and Eibach Pro kit as well and switched them from the crappy BC coilovers and replaced all the strut mounts, coil spring perches, bumpstops etc etc. I took the adjustable end links off the BC coilovers and replaced with my old stock sway bar end links. It rode beautifully for the first 5 days until about 500kms worth of use on them then the front starting getting clunky and rode a bit harsher and bumpier than usual. The rear still rode absolutely fine. I jacked up the car and saw the old stock sway bar end links had black fluid leaking out of them. So I replaced the sway bar end links with Meyle HD sway bar end links, and the clunkiness was gone and the ride quality was very noticeably better and was back to normal.

Look at your sway bar end links as well.
Sway bar links are brand new. The fronts I have seemed to get almost perfect with regards to how it rides. The rears are the issue so I am going to need to figure out how to adjust them. Hopefully adjusting them and getting them perfect doesn't show the flaws up front (actually it would probably be a good thing)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SE7EN335 View Post
Do the front control arms really make that much of a difference in smoothness of ride? My upper front control arms were leaking a while ago and I changed them and the ride quality didn't feel any smoother, just more stable during handling. Maybe changing bad lower front control arms would make it feel smoother?
I know for my e36 M3, the controls looked okay when on the car, but when I pulled them off the ball joints were shot. Pressing new ones in and reinstalling on the car definitely helped with handling and comfort.
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      11-08-2016, 11:15 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE7EN335 View Post
Do the front control arms really make that much of a difference in smoothness of ride? My upper front control arms were leaking a while ago and I changed them and the ride quality didn't feel any smoother, just more stable during handling. Maybe changing bad lower front control arms would make it feel smoother?
On the highway I had a vibration (hole car would vibrate) above 75mph and after I replaced the control arms, the vibration went away, so on the highway it felt much smoother. Also, at low speeds the car would thunk occasionally from imperfections in the road. I replaced both upper and lower with Meyle HD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmuum3 View Post
I haven't changed my front control arms because I don't see any visible leaks, but I have wanted to upgrade to the m3 arms. I'm sure that will tighten up the front end, but the rear is the many issue
My arms didn't have any leaks but they had some play in them. The balljoints were definitely worn out.

Has the car been in any wrecks or hit any huge potholes? I would have someone inspect all the components in depth and see if anything is bent or needs replacing. Subframe bushings wont be a cheap job but if it's something you were going to do at some point in the future anyways, then go for it.
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      11-13-2016, 06:03 PM   #28
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Today I installed the whiteline inserts. The install was fairly easy. It almost took more time to get the car on and off the jack stands. I was trying to document the process with pictures, but of course my phone died. The car feels much more stable in the rear, but still bouncy. I am going to keep tweaking the dampening to get it perfect to my liking.

Now that the rear is almost there the front needs to be addressed. I installed new koni struts along with new end links. I seem to have minor vibration in the wheel over 45mph. The control arms look okay, but I am guessing the ball joints are probably shot as the car has 57k miles now. M3 arms are everyone's choice so I'll probably go with them.

Would you replace the tie rods at the same time?

Hopefully after this the car is stable at high speeds and I want to do some rolling races next spring.

Last edited by bmuum3; 11-14-2016 at 12:19 PM.
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      12-07-2016, 10:31 PM   #29
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So I took the car to one of the local well known BMW shops to have them look into the car. I told them it didnt seem to ride smoothly whether the dampening was full soft or full stiff or anywhere in between. They looked it over and said everything in the suspension seems to be okay and recommended an alignment. I got the alignment, but the car still does not ride smoothly.

Maybe I am just way to use to the old e36 suspensions because neither stock suspension or coilovers felt like this car does.

Like I said earlier it seems like a low speeds I am riding on octagons rather than circular tires. I have moved tires front to back and side to side and nothing helps.

I am about at my whits end with this cars suspension.
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      12-12-2016, 12:12 PM   #30
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Maybe the tires are bad? What tires are on the car?
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      12-12-2016, 05:03 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camman View Post
Maybe the tires are bad? What tires are on the car?
Brand new DWS. I have taken it to 2 shops and they have said everything is fine. Maybe its all in my mind, but I swear something isn't right.

I am trying to get a local 335i to let me ride with them and see the difference.
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      12-18-2016, 07:39 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmuum3 View Post
Brand new DWS. I have taken it to 2 shops and they have said everything is fine. Maybe its all in my mind, but I swear something isn't right.

I am trying to get a local 335i to let me ride with them and see the difference.
has the rear subframe bushings been changed? I'm starting to get some creaking sounds and a bit of extra harshness when I go over big bumps on road at low speed from the rear end and on inspection, it can be seen the bushings are heavily cracked at currently 101k kms. Either gonna change to Nolathane rear subframe bushings or save up for the m3 ones.
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      12-18-2016, 12:05 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE7EN335 View Post
has the rear subframe bushings been changed? I'm starting to get some creaking sounds and a bit of extra harshness when I go over big bumps on road at low speed from the rear end and on inspection, it can be seen the bushings are heavily cracked at currently 101k kms. Either gonna change to Nolathane rear subframe bushings or save up for the m3 ones.
I am actually looking for bushings right now. Either going with Derlin or aluminum bushing
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      12-23-2016, 10:59 AM   #34
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I ended up buying the aluminum bushing from Turner. They should be here Saturday, so I will probably get them put in over the weekend. I went with them because the new M series have a solid subframe and ride well. Hopefully the combination of this and adjusting the dampening fixes the ride quality.
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      12-23-2016, 12:37 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmuum3 View Post
Brand new DWS. I have taken it to 2 shops and they have said everything is fine. Maybe its all in my mind, but I swear something isn't right.

I am trying to get a local 335i to let me ride with them and see the difference.
DWS's have very soft sidewalls so that would explain the unstable feel with lane changes on the highway. I had DWS's on my last car and I could definitely tell the sidewalls were much softer than all the other tires I've had in the past. Good tires though. Looking at DWS06 for my next set.

I'm thinking it's in your head too. You're on stiffer springs with stiffer shocks. You're going to feel a lot more imperfections in the road and the car is going to react to the smaller bumps that the old stock suspension just absorbed. Especially at slower speeds.
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      12-25-2016, 08:55 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camman View Post
DWS's have very soft sidewalls so that would explain the unstable feel with lane changes on the highway. I had DWS's on my last car and I could definitely tell the sidewalls were much softer than all the other tires I've had in the past. Good tires though. Looking at DWS06 for my next set.

I'm thinking it's in your head too. You're on stiffer springs with stiffer shocks. You're going to feel a lot more imperfections in the road and the car is going to react to the smaller bumps that the old stock suspension just absorbed. Especially at slower speeds.
I feel that the "old stock" m sport suspension that was on mine for over 85k kms felt underdampened especially when it comes to hitting bumps at higher speeds. It feels like the whole car is gonna explode. After changing it to Yellows and Eibach Pro kit which are both stiffer springs and shocks, although it was definitely stiffer over imperfections, when it comes to hitting bumps at high speeds, it just tackles it with ease and is very compliant and the whole cabin remains very stable and composed.
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      12-25-2016, 04:32 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE7EN335 View Post
I feel that the "old stock" m sport suspension that was on mine for over 85k kms felt underdampened especially when it comes to hitting bumps at higher speeds. It feels like the whole car is gonna explode. After changing it to Yellows and Eibach Pro kit which are both stiffer springs and shocks, although it was definitely stiffer over imperfections, when it comes to hitting bumps at high speeds, it just tackles it with ease and is very compliant and the whole cabin remains very stable and composed.
According to the chart the spring rates for ZSP springs and the Eibach Pro Kit are the same. It was probably just the new shocks
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      12-26-2016, 05:37 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by redline2001 View Post
According to the chart the spring rates for ZSP springs and the Eibach Pro Kit are the same. It was probably just the new shocks
Yeah i think so too. I need to sit in a very low mileage 335i with m sport suspension to know for sure. But the Koni Yellows are a solid package.
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      12-26-2016, 09:33 AM   #39
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I assume that for every suspension arm replaced (if any) that you torqued their bolts with the car at normal ride height? If the ride height was significantly lowered, these should be reset since you don't want the bushings to be wound up at static height. (i.e. see the thread on the effective spring rate the E9x rubber bushings have)

Second thought is, again if the car is lowered a fair amount, what about the bump stops? Do they need to be substituted for shorter/stiffer ones or simply trimmed? You could possibly be getting into the bump stops on a regular basis.

Anyway, just a couple of random thoughts to maybe help the troubleshooting process.
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      01-09-2017, 05:39 PM   #40
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Bought Turner aluminum bushings for the subframe and couldn't get them to go in not matter what I tried. Sold them to a buddy and now I am getting the AKG bushings 95A for the subframe and hope those go in a little easier. My back end moves around way too much. Make my passengers think the cars suspension is shot ha
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      02-23-2017, 02:33 PM   #41
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I bought AKG subframe bushings and put them in. Getting the original bushings out was a PITA, but the AKG bushings were so simple to get in. I have noticed that when I punch the gas now the rear end stays planted! Back to the ride quality, I cant seem to get the car to ride smoothly. From soft settings to firm doesn't see to change how erratic the car rides. I guess the next thing to do is get road force balancing done, but I don't think that would help suspension oscillations.
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