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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > NA Engine (non-turbo) / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Free Power (charcoal filter removal)



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      02-06-2006, 01:27 AM   #23
speedyj88
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DIY for the E90 would be great. I'm thinking about doing this, I'll take a look next weekend.
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      02-06-2006, 07:06 AM   #24
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matsarge wrote in part, "... guess at 5%. At 5% that would be an 13HP increase for a 330 from 258 to 271. Based on the feel of the car now, I would take a 2-3% gain as reasonable. That would be a jump in HP from 258 to 263-266. Only a dyno knows for sure."
###
For the sake of discussion let's assume that by removing the charcoal filter which is in the intake for a reason, the engine did in fact produce an additional 13 bhp with no loss in driveability and no emissions penalty. In this case, how many of us could feel the 13 bhp difference in a street vehicle of this weight? I know that I could not!
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      02-06-2006, 07:14 AM   #25
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Butt dynos are about as precise as Astrology.
The only positive thing about this mod is that there is no way it could be harmfull. Is doing it worth your time? Most likely not.
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      02-06-2006, 09:39 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben1364
...For the sake of discussion let's assume that by removing the charcoal filter which is in the intake for a reason, the engine did in fact produce an additional 13 bhp with no loss in driveability and no emissions penalty. In this case, how many of us could feel the 13 bhp difference in a street vehicle of this weight? I know that I could not!
1. "which is in the intake for a reason" It's not in the European models therefore it is not needed.

2. "how many of us could feel the 13 bhp" Well it seems like matsarge and all the people who posted an the 5 series forum did.

I believe they all have said the car runs smoother too.
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      02-06-2006, 10:06 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGRAY

2. "how many of us could feel the 13 bhp" Well it seems like matsarge and all the people who posted an the 5 series forum did.

I believe they all have said the car runs smoother too.
If you go to the length of taking out that filter, your subconsciousness will make pretty damn sure you will feel the car runs smoother and has more power afterwards. If that´s enough for you, fine and stop reading this post.

BUT

Only a true double blind test is valid in determining the usefullness of a modification. And whenever that scientific principle is applied (it rarely ever is), claims of free power and smoother running ALLWAYS falter. Just like with astrology and homeopathy...

"feeling" 13hp on a 510hp M5 is plain riddiculous. It would not even be measurable except on a static engine only dyno (not a wheel dyno, on wheel dynos the tollerances would be too high).
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      02-06-2006, 11:33 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tierfreund
Butt dynos are about as precise as Astrology.
The only positive thing about this mod is that there is no way it could be harmfull. Is doing it worth your time? Most likely not.
###
Care to clarify, "...there is no way it could be harmfull." European emmission regs. are not the same as those in the U S and more specifically in certain states including CA, NY, and CT.
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      02-06-2006, 11:37 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ben1364
###
Care to clarify, "...there is no way it could be harmfull." European emmission regs. are not the same as those in the U S and more specifically in certain states including CA, NY, and CT.
You´re right, I should clarify:

The mod is very unlikely to be harmfull TO THE CAR. Since the main particle filter stays in place, the engine will most likely not be harmed in any way.

The mod would be detremental to the environment though, since the filter si supposedly there to preven emissions from the intake of the standing car to escape into the environment.
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      02-06-2006, 12:00 PM   #30
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LOL at the M5 guys looking to increase the already available 500HP
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      02-06-2006, 12:04 PM   #31
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Another body of evidence

Here is a link to some efforts - including pics, of vehicles a little closer to the E90 - E60s with some similar engines. I will try this myself, but only after doing some good before runs with a Gtech RR meter after I install it later this week - I hope.

http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=21796
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      02-06-2006, 12:32 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGRAY

2. "how many of us could feel the 13 bhp" Well it seems like matsarge and all the people who posted an the 5 series forum did.

I believe they all have said the car runs smoother too.
Add some E60 owners to that list as well. Mass hysteria or true occurences? You be the judge. All I know is that after 9 months and 12,000 miles of driving it, I can tell a difference since last night. MPG doesn't seem to be affected either BTW.

Added note: I've got a new filter on order that should be in Wed/Thurs. When I replace the filter I'm going to look and see if there are additional deposits, etc that I didn't see before. Yea I know that 4-5 days is not a long period but I have to take it apart again anyway for the filter change. I'll try to remember to take some pics.

Last edited by Carnage; 02-06-2006 at 02:08 PM..
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      02-06-2006, 12:34 PM   #33
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interesting.

yea, a diy for the e90 would be nice! esp since it seem like the e90 is a bit more difficult?
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      02-06-2006, 12:55 PM   #34
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      02-06-2006, 01:04 PM   #35
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which filter are you getting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by matsarge
Add some E60 owners to that list as well. Mass hysteria or true occurences? You be the judge. All I know if that after 9 months and 12,000 miles of driving it, I can tell a difference since last night. MPG doesn't seem to be affected either BTW.

Added note: I've got a new filter on order that should be in Wed/Thurs. When I replace the filter I'm going to look and see if there are additional deposits, etc that I didn't see before. Yea I know that 4-5 days is not a long period but I have to take it apart again anyway for the filter change. I'll try to remember to take some pics.
which filter are you getting? whats best K&N?

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      02-06-2006, 01:10 PM   #36
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about k&n... read what jim conforti wrote: http://www.bmwe34.net/e34main/upgrade/Air_filter.htm
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      02-06-2006, 01:21 PM   #37
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hi,
i hav replaced my filter with a k and n already and whe n idid the charcoal filter seemed to be easily removable. im definetly going to remove the filter but i just wanted to make sure that there is no risk of damaging the engine if i remove this filter right?
thanks
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      02-06-2006, 01:24 PM   #38
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this explains the use of the charcoal filter. kinda almost seems like a cat for the intake.

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      02-06-2006, 02:03 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porscheneer
which filter are you getting? whats best K&N?

Yep, I ordered a K&N. Part # 33-2332.
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      02-06-2006, 02:07 PM   #40
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shragon, nice find. We don't have vehicle inspections in Iowa, so that stops any worries there.
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      02-06-2006, 02:21 PM   #41
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i don't think there would be a problem in california, unless they change the visual inspection procedure, where the smog tech would need to bust open the air filter of newer cars to see if the charcoal fitler is in place.
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      02-06-2006, 02:26 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shragon
i don't think there would be a problem in california, unless they change the visual inspection procedure, where the smog tech would need to bust open the air filter of newer cars to see if the charcoal fitler is in place.
I doubt they would do that since it would add 10-20 minutes to inspections. That would eat into the amount of cars a shop could turnaround in a day, thus directly impact their revenues. Most likely, shops would put up a huge fight on that one if they tried to add it.
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      02-06-2006, 03:18 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tierfreund
You´re right, I should clarify:

The mod is very unlikely to be harmfull TO THE CAR. Since the main particle filter stays in place, the engine will most likely not be harmed in any way.

The mod would be detremental to the environment though, since the filter si supposedly there to preven emissions from the intake of the standing car to escape into the environment.
###
Though I am not an engineer, I tend to agree that removal of the charcoal filter would not likely endanger the engine, i.e. "harm the car" which is different than, "...there is no way it could be harmfull."

I also agree that the charcoal filter's purpose seems to be to keep raw gasoline vapors from escaping. I'm not sure what you mean by, "...main particle filter " That's what I have always referred to as the cabin air filter which has nothing to do with the engine. Did you mean the treated paper air filter element?
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      02-06-2006, 05:30 PM   #44
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has anyone set up a DIY yet?
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