[sd390r]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

-$???.00 for customer service. Unfortunately determined only after the purchase. You decide.

hahaha

aint that the truth

terry is GREAT with customer service

but i will say, WHEN shiv responds... he knows what the fuck hes talking about lol

[sd390r]

Originally Posted by MrWhite1015

Shiv ... you tell me the differences other then what i stated before.... and prove that your setup is better and i will sell my jb3 right now and buy your system

shiv get his credit card number hes def ready to order, i take paypal for commission payments btw

[MrWhite1015]

Originally Posted by sd390r

shiv get his credit card number hes def ready to order, i take paypal for commission payments btw

hahah yeah ready 2 order when he leads me to believe that his tune performance wise (not add one) is doing something jb3 is not... either making it a safer/better tune... idk how you get that im mad or angry from my posts i simply want answers .

[sd390r]

Originally Posted by MrWhite1015

hahah yeah ready 2 order when he leads me to believe that his tune performance wise (not add one) is doing something jb3 is not... either making it a safer/better tune... idk how you get that im mad or angry from my posts i simply want answers .

how about this

I have the jb3 right now... and ordered the v3 race

when it comes in ("thanksgiving present" according to shiv) ill dyno both

fuck it, youre from NY, you can even come (NJ)... ill even do the jb3 first so if the v3 makes more power theres no adjustment period arguement (ive had a jb3 since like august and never took it off)

happy? i really dont think itll make too much more... but

the traction nanny definitely makes a difference when "racing"

also user adjustables help in other ways to deliver almost the same amount of power in a better way, also a little safer

[MrWhite1015]

Originally Posted by sd390r

how about this

I have the jb3 right now... and ordered the v3 race

when it comes in ("thanksgiving present" according to shiv) ill dyno both

fuck it, youre from NY, you can even come (NJ)... ill even do the jb3 first so if the v3 makes more power theres no adjustment period arguement (ive had a jb3 since like august and never took it off)

happy? i really dont think itll make too much more... but

the traction nanny definitely makes a difference when "racing"

also user adjustables help in other ways to deliver almost the same amount of power in a better way, also a little safer

lol sorry dont take trips 2 the dirty jerz and meet up with men that think im a 15yo boy... wtf is wrong with you all i want is to hear form shiv not you or anyone else that knows nothing about the inner workings of their software

[sd390r]

lol sorry dont take trips 2 the dirty jerz and meet up with men that think im a 15yo boy... wtf is wrong with you all i want is to hear form shiv not you or anyone else that knows nothing about the inner workings of their software

Originally Posted by addy85

Are you serious? How old are you 15?

hmm sd390r... addy85

re-read please

you're so quick on everything

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by MrWhite1015

hahah yeah ready 2 order when he leads me to believe that his tune performance wise (not add one) is doing something jb3 is not... either making it a safer/better tune... idk how you get that im mad or angry from my posts i simply want answers .

There is already so much documented info on the inner working of our software. In fact, every time I post up a beta map update, I provide a pretty in-depth explanation of what our system is doing and how it is doing it. But to answer your question simply, I'll just go over some basic points:

Our tune actively monitors the following parameters before even allowing higher-than-stock boost pressures:

1) Sufficient fuel pressure (due to the well-known fuel pump issue)
2) Within-spec wastegate DC (to pretect turbos from over-spooling in the case of a boost leak.
3) Sufficiently rich AFR (as measured off the rear o2 sensor which we also use for o2 sim feature).

And then if boost ever exceeds a user definable pressure, it triggers a valet mode.

All this "stuff" adds layers upon layers of safety features which is nice to have when the engine costs as much as it does.

Next, we have a PID system that constantly monitors the wastegate DC seen by the factory ECU. This keeps the perceived DC within the expected range as a function of RPM and load. This means that you don't get the same high frequency throttle closures that other tunes will induce (if you logged throttle position with a obd-II logger). This results in noticeably smoother acceleration.

Next, we have 100% full control over the wastegate solenoids. In other words, the input signal and output signal is completely separated from each other. One is not merely an "offset" of the other. This means that we can successfully employ features such as lag/rattle fix. We can also completely get rid of unwanted artifacts caused by the factory boost control logic (such as the lag that occurs during quick WOT shifting in 6MT cars).

These are just some of the things. I could go on for another page or two but you probably get the idea.

But honestly, the biggest advantage our system has is that our user interface and datalogging feature allows us to develop and test new beta maps/features quickly in the field. We don't have to ship out chips to implement new features. Nor do we have to limit ourselves to a one-size-fits-all map. In fact, we have a different map for no less than 3 (soon to be four) different modification configurations. Quite literally, the only limiting factory is our imagination. And to be able to review datalogs taken by customers in a variety of conditions (hot, cold, high altitude, low altitude) gives us a massive advantage when developing maps. What takes us 1 week to develop would take someone else using another more "closed" tuning platform a whole 1 year.

Shiv

[jpsimon]

jb3 fan boys make me laugh. Jb3 is a good "set it and forget it" product. That's it and there is nothing else to it... It's a medieval product that gets the job done sometimes.. Until it's time to update and you have to swap chips LOL... That cracks me up.


If you enjoy Swaping hardware everytime there is a map update get a jb3... If you want to update your car by simply plugging in your computer, get a procede. Medieval vs. How it should be done... You decide (I personally would never trust my car with a jb product)

[jpsimon]

By "good set it and forget it product" I mean I would never ever trust it in my 50k+ car.

[sd390r]

alot of people talk about customer service with shiv vs terry but..

shiv runs an entire company that makes products for like 20 different cars, no?

terry just makes products for the n54

he is obviously more reachable

shiv is just one man... vishnu has a whole cust service department... a "tech call back form"

[addy85]

Originally Posted by sd390r

hmm sd390r... addy85

re-read please

you're so quick on everything

Okay.... I'm not sure what you mean by your posts. Obviously MrWhite1015 wants more info then what has been provided and documented many times before. Oh wait, maybe I should re-read

[sd390r]

Originally Posted by addy85

Okay.... I'm not sure what you mean by your posts. Obviously MrWhite1015 wants more info then what has been provided and documented many times before. Oh wait, maybe I should re-read

lol what i said wasnt meant towards you, thats why you dont understand it

i quoted you to show him that you were the one that called him a "15 year old"... and not me

he seemed to have had us confused... and i dont think he knows what he wants, so he just decided to stay quiet

[Sam12345]

You fanboys disgust me.

Who cares what othere people say? How does it affect your life if someone else is running "the crappier chip", or if they think your chip is slow. In the end you know that your chip is fast, and that is all that matters


Jb3 is a set it and forget it/ best buy for the price

V3 is highly adjustable(so ive been told), and is the tunners chip, for people that wish to be more involved with there car. However it is a bit more expensive, and allows you to run very high PSI which has caused people to blow turbos(very few people). This goes back to my original point, V3 is highly adjustable and you should only use it if you are informed/educated with the car and know what you are doing.

Both chips are fantastic!

I personally run a JB2X...and i absolutly love it.

If money was no issue i would personally take a V3, but thats just me.

-Sam

p.s. I am very tired, my spelling/grammer/punctuation is bad at the moment. If something i said is not correct, my bad for being ignorant.

[addy85]

Originally Posted by sd390r

lol what i said wasnt meant towards you, thats why you dont understand it

i quoted you to show him that you were the one that called him a "15 year old"... and not me

he seemed to have had us confused... and i dont think he knows what he wants, so he just decided to stay quiet

Oh I see, we'll he's acting like a child so I'm not worried about his response

MrWhite1015, you own a jb3 and your happy with it which is great. No one is trying to convice you to sell it and buy a v3 so get lost

[sd390r]

he's "drunk"... I forgive em

I love my jb3 too... its actually faster than the v3 because of the weight savings...

[lurker]

Hi All,

I have been a member here for a few weeks, as I am considering purchasing a 135, and wanted to know what the upgrade potential was for them. You can't really miss the whole JB3 vs V3 thing. Like all forums, it is hard to get unbiased info on products. Most people are biased by what they have on their car for whatever reasons they got it however many years ago when the products were probably entirely different to now.

I was lucky to get a copy of the photo this thread is discussing before it was removed. The photo interested me alot as I am an electrical engineer who designs embedded systems for a living. People seemed interested in an engineers opinion, so I thought what better oportunity for my first post!!

I can definately see why the V3 costs more. We are talking about two different leagues in terms of embedded systems. The JB3 "looks" like a very low cost 8 bit micro with some basic bypass capacitors and pullup resistors required to get it working. I don't know what is on the other side of the board, but I assume it is similarly basic. The little processor probably has an 8 bit ADC (for reading analogue signals) maybe some DACs (for producing analogue outputs), and probably some timer inputs and outputs for reading RPM and outputting PWM signals etc. By the looks of it, it is probably a PIC chip and probably has about 20 IO pins split between these functions. It also has 2 very large resistors that I can only conclude would be there to load the BMW ECU solenoid outputs. I can't think of anything else that would need high power. I am surprised it does not seem to have a crystal oscillator, power supply of any description or any active signal conditioning circuitry (opamps, comparators etc.). I would have thought these would be required to maximise input impedance of any inputs that connecting to factory sensor signals does not alter the signal in any way. I have used processors like this one in many very simple applications where you just need to do a few simple things at low cost. They are a good option for some applications.

The V3 is another league entirely. It looks like a much larger and probably faster 16 bit processor... maybe 32 bit, not that it makes much difference these days. It also looks like a fully functioned platform with regulated power supply, crystal oscillator (accurate clock speed), and extensive signal conditioning (many of those black ICs will be opamps and compartors). It also is a well designed surface mount PCB, that would be assemble with expensive equipment that can provide very high reliablity. This V3 is designed to be manufactured automatedly in high volume... similar to many other products popular today like PCs, Ipods, phones etc.

Given the number of pins on the V3 processor, it probably has 80-100 IOs. It probably has atleast 16 ADC channels (analogue input), probably 8 DAC channels (analogue output), probably 8-16 timer IO channels (reading RPM, outputting PWMs etc.) as well as a host of communication capabilities. It probably has more than it needs, and is probably over powered for the job, but it does look like the Procede has alot of future expandabilty.

I can't comment on the smarts in the software, but I can say that you really are getting alot more for you money with the Procede hardware. Whether this amounts to any benefits for the end user remains to be seen, as I have not used either product, but I can say that the V3 has alot more potential... whether it is used or unused.

I was undecided on which way I would go before (when/if I get a 135), but I now know what my choice would be. If the money is similar, from a hardware perspective the V3 has so much more for the money. For me this just means I am investing in an expandable platform, and from what I read here, it looks like it is expanding rapidly at the moment. For me, when I consider the JB3, as an EE, it looks like a solution to a problem that was there at the time, but unlikely to be capable of expanding to solve future problems, or adding new features. It seems BMW has recently made changes designed to stop tunes like this, and I would not be confident the JB3 could adapt to future requirements. The procede looks like it has the expandability to handle whatever the future may bring... and even if BMW does not make any more changes, I am confident Vishnu will use this expanadability to provide more features, and I want access to that.

I am surprised these products compete in a similar price range. It looks like there is alot more work behind the V3 to develop the hardware and probably software given the features and the hardware looks like it is probably worth about 5 times more to make.

Anyway, just some opinions from an EE. I have neither product, but will probably buy one in future. I am all for the KISS principle, and the JB3 achieves what it does on this principle, but in a volatile market like this where features are changing daily, and BMW is changing its firmware monthly, I would prefer to have something capable of reacting to that.

Cheers guys!!

-- Lurker

[TMR]

Wasnt the person that had his number 6 piston detonated using a V3? Safty? Just curious.

[sd390r]

Originally Posted by TMR

Wasnt the person that had his number 6 piston detonated using a V3? Safty? Just curious.

vince@ v k motorwerks

hes used both the v3 and jb3... he doesn't believe his problem was tune related

[Brian-313]

how is that interesting to post picture of that ??

does it tell how many HP u gain with those picture ??

i find it pointless to post picture like that , not try to against any tune

[lawdude]

Originally Posted by Sam12345

p.s. I am very tired, my spelling/grammer/punctuation is bad at the moment.

[Vyruz Reaper]

Originally Posted by sd390r

vince@ v k motorwerks

hes used both the v3 and jb3... he doesn't believe his problem was tune related

well, i know of 3 bimmers fucked by the v2 but not v3. I personally dont know which one is better nor do i car. People also have to realize that the v3 USED to cost 1400ish. Getting the JB3 Pnp was a lot cheaper option. with the recent price cut from shiv, it makes for a more interesting debate. But we already see a JB3 group buy, and i would NOT be surpirsed to see the JB3 cut another few hundred dollars.

Both are great, both have advantages, and both produce similar gains.

[NM_BMW]

Originally Posted by lurker

Hi All,

I have been a member here for a few weeks, as I am considering purchasing a 135, and wanted to know what the upgrade potential was for them. You can't really miss the whole JB3 vs V3 thing. Like all forums, it is hard to get unbiased info on products. Most people are biased by what they have on their car for whatever reasons they got it however many years ago when the products were probably entirely different to now.

I was lucky to get a copy of the photo this thread is discussing before it was removed. The photo interested me alot as I am an electrical engineer who designs embedded systems for a living. People seemed interested in an engineers opinion, so I thought what better oportunity for my first post!!

I can definately see why the V3 costs more. We are talking about two different leagues in terms of embedded systems. The JB3 "looks" like a very low cost 8 bit micro with some basic bypass capacitors and pullup resistors required to get it working. I don't know what is on the other side of the board, but I assume it is similarly basic. The little processor probably has an 8 bit ADC (for reading analogue signals) maybe some DACs (for producing analogue outputs), and probably some timer inputs and outputs for reading RPM and outputting PWM signals etc. By the looks of it, it is probably a PIC chip and probably has about 20 IO pins split between these functions. It also has 2 very large resistors that I can only conclude would be there to load the BMW ECU solenoid outputs. I can't think of anything else that would need high power. I am surprised it does not seem to have a crystal oscillator, power supply of any description or any active signal conditioning circuitry (opamps, comparators etc.). I would have thought these would be required to maximise input impedance of any inputs that connecting to factory sensor signals does not alter the signal in any way. I have used processors like this one in many very simple applications where you just need to do a few simple things at low cost. They are a good option for some applications.

The V3 is another league entirely. It looks like a much larger and probably faster 16 bit processor... maybe 32 bit, not that it makes much difference these days. It also looks like a fully functioned platform with regulated power supply, crystal oscillator (accurate clock speed), and extensive signal conditioning (many of those black ICs will be opamps and compartors). It also is a well designed surface mount PCB, that would be assemble with expensive equipment that can provide very high reliablity. This V3 is designed to be manufactured automatedly in high volume... similar to many other products popular today like PCs, Ipods, phones etc.

Given the number of pins on the V3 processor, it probably has 80-100 IOs. It probably has atleast 16 ADC channels (analogue input), probably 8 DAC channels (analogue output), probably 8-16 timer IO channels (reading RPM, outputting PWMs etc.) as well as a host of communication capabilities. It probably has more than it needs, and is probably over powered for the job, but it does look like the Procede has alot of future expandabilty.

I can't comment on the smarts in the software, but I can say that you really are getting alot more for you money with the Procede hardware. Whether this amounts to any benefits for the end user remains to be seen, as I have not used either product, but I can say that the V3 has alot more potential... whether it is used or unused.

I was undecided on which way I would go before (when/if I get a 135), but I now know what my choice would be. If the money is similar, from a hardware perspective the V3 has so much more for the money. For me this just means I am investing in an expandable platform, and from what I read here, it looks like it is expanding rapidly at the moment. For me, when I consider the JB3, as an EE, it looks like a solution to a problem that was there at the time, but unlikely to be capable of expanding to solve future problems, or adding new features. It seems BMW has recently made changes designed to stop tunes like this, and I would not be confident the JB3 could adapt to future requirements. The procede looks like it has the expandability to handle whatever the future may bring... and even if BMW does not make any more changes, I am confident Vishnu will use this expanadability to provide more features, and I want access to that.

I am surprised these products compete in a similar price range. It looks like there is alot more work behind the V3 to develop the hardware and probably software given the features and the hardware looks like it is probably worth about 5 times more to make.

Anyway, just some opinions from an EE. I have neither product, but will probably buy one in future. I am all for the KISS principle, and the JB3 achieves what it does on this principle, but in a volatile market like this where features are changing daily, and BMW is changing its firmware monthly, I would prefer to have something capable of reacting to that.

Cheers guys!!

-- Lurker

Good first post!

I honestly don't see it as a problem posting pictures of the internals. Who cares... lets move on.