[makkan00]

Watched this on the main page. Its not in English but interesting to watch....
I had a respect for C63 but after watching this ....

[acerboo]

a quick translation, he said these jap cars handle like bags of shit, the amg like a king tiger and the m3 is just brilliant

[IanS100]

The Lexus looked like a handful

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by acerboo

a quick translation, he said these jap cars handle like bags of shit, the amg like a king tiger and the m3 is just brilliant

I thought they were praising M3.

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by IanS100

The Lexus looked like a handful

And datsun made me :

[djgandy]

Wow the M3 is leagues ahead of all of them in the corners.

[Palmnuts]

An M3 will always muller a C63 on track....this is old news that we all know.

I'd imagine after driving both of them, you'd probably still have respect for the C63 as a ROAD car. As a car to own, the C63 also tends to feel the more special of the two for more of the time.

All spoken with the voice of unbiased experience

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by Palmnuts

An M3 will always muller a C63 on track....this is old news that we all know.

My ignorance. I was not aware of it.

Originally Posted by Palmnuts

I'd imagine after driving both of them, you'd probably still have respect for the C63 as a ROAD car. As a car to own, the C63 also tends to feel the more special of the two for more of the time.

All spoken with the voice of unbiased experience

your comments are re-assuring and I'll take your words.

[creepy coupe]

The M3 is an "M" car and the Merc a family car with a big engine. Imagine how average the Merc would be if it have a 4.0 ltr engine like the M3.

[MrPogle]

The tyre information at 00:57 was very funny indeed.

[acerboo]

Originally Posted by makkan00

I thought they were praising M3.

I assume they were i was just making it up!

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

The M3 is an "M" car and the Merc a family car with a big engine. Imagine how average the Merc would be if it have a 4.0 ltr engine like the M3.

Sorry, have to disagree with that.

The Merc is more than a family car with a big engine.
I have only driven one C63 and it was far more than a regular C Class with a big engine.

The E9X M3 is getting more and more like that, compared with the rawness of the E46, as is the new M5 compared to the E60 M5.

The Mercs seem to be getting more extreme while the M cars seem to be getting softer and softer. Not a good thing imho.

[creepy coupe]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

Sorry, have to disagree with that.

The Merc is more than a family car with a big engine.
I have only driven one C63 and it was far more than a regular C Class with a big engine.

The E9X M3 is getting more and more like that, compared with the rawness of the E46, as is the new M5 compared to the E60 M5.

The Mercs seem to be getting more extreme while the M cars seem to be getting softer and softer. Not a good thing imho.

That's fine, But it's well documented the Merc doesn't do corners very well. It also has 2.3 ltrs over the M3 and still loses out on just about every back to back I've seen.

My point is really if it had the same power as the BM. How far would it trail?

[RichJ]

On the road in the real world i'd take the C63.

[Palmnuts]

Originally Posted by creepy coupe

That's fine, But it's well documented the Merc doesn't do corners very well. It also has 2.3 ltrs over the M3 and still loses out on just about every back to back I've seen.

My point is really if it had the same power as the BM. How far would it trail?

Lets turn this on it's head then - if every comparison gave no consideration to how a car performed on track, how far ahead would the BMW be then?

Every back to back includes how cars perform on a track and, lets be honest, comparisons always over-index on how a car 'handles'. And in this area, like I said above, the Merc is well and truly beaten.

As a car to use everyday on the road, the Merc IS the better car. In fact, I'd even go as far as saying that it's overall 'handling' on the road is preferable to the BMW's - it's lower limits mean you have more fun, and it's steering feel, a crucial part which you feel the benefit of every single day, is much preferable to the BMW's. Both of which mean that in everyday driving, in the hands of the ordinary Joe, it's simply the better car.

[Hoops]

I think a lot of this is subjective and boils down to personal needs and desires. Ive been very lucky to own some fantastic cars over the years (although thats a stupidly ridiculous comment when you consider Andrews "previous"!!!) and ive loved and hated every single one of them and all for very different reasons. Ive always loved owning an M badged car and as much as i enjoyed both E92 M3's and would have more, they were never as "special" as my E46 M3 CSL's - each time i sat in the CSL it became an "occasion" regardless of whether i was heading to a track day or Waitrose. I havent owned a C63 AMG (yet) but ive been in numerous and ive driven a friends on track twice - it equally felt "special" and the noise was very reminiscent of the CSL's induction roar. However, on track my aggressive driving style just didnt suit and we had to change the rear tyres before the 3rd session!! That said it was immense fun, easy to showboat in and always made people look and stare. On the other hand my E92 M3's on track allowed me to gain more experience and further my ability and race craft without constantly thinking i was going to blow it up, head backwards into the barriers or have to replace rubber every hour. All that said, if petrol was cheap as chips, i'd probably still grab the Merc keys every time if anything just to make an "occasion" out of an ordinarily dull daily drive. Sorry, not scientific in any way but my own personal subjective opinion.
By the way, did i mention i drive a "dull as dishwater" Land Rover these days?? Oh how i miss those "silly" days!!!

[rickyjones1209]

Originally Posted by Palmnuts

Lets turn this on it's head then - if every comparison gave no consideration to how a car performed on track, how far ahead would the BMW be then?

Every back to back includes how cars perform on a track and, lets be honest, comparisons always over-index on how a car 'handles'. And in this area, like I said above, the Merc is well and truly beaten.

As a car to use everyday on the road, the Merc IS the better car. In fact, I'd even go as far as saying that it's overall 'handling' on the road is preferable to the BMW's - it's lower limits mean you have more fun, and it's steering feel, a crucial part which you feel the benefit of every single day, is much preferable to the BMW's. Both of which mean that in everyday driving, in the hands of the ordinary Joe, it's simply the better car.

Didn't you go from a c63 back to an m3?

[verysideways]

Originally Posted by Palmnuts

As a car to use everyday on the road, the Merc IS the better car. In fact, I'd even go as far as saying that it's overall 'handling' on the road is preferable to the BMW's - it's lower limits mean you have more fun, and it's steering feel, a crucial part which you feel the benefit of every single day, is much preferable to the BMW's. Both of which mean that in everyday driving, in the hands of the ordinary Joe, it's simply the better car.

You really think the C63 has better steering feel than the M3? I'd have to beg to differ, especially on the road. I found the C63 positively vague in comparison to the M3.

I do agree that the ample torque and lower grip limits (along with much more intrusive traction control) make the C63 the safer and/or more usable car for the average Joe, but how many average Joes buy cars like these?

[E92westy]

Err...

Originally Posted by Palmnuts

<snip>
...much as I really loved the C63 and the sound of it, the M3 is still the one I chose to buy again last summer and that because its the only car, except my current XKR, that I could't really fault at all(manual 'box aside in my first M3, rectified by the fab DCT box in the second one).

The M3 won't sound as thunderous as the Merc, it's certainly not as well built (you're definitely signing up to more rattles in the M3), the seats and driving position are a million miles behind and it's less exclusive (the Merc is still relatively rare compared to the M3). The M3 is also slower....not massively so, but slower nonetheless and theres nothing an M3 can do to lose the Merc on the queens highway hence I've always held the Merc in higher regard as a road car.

Yet I find myself now noticing a glimpse of that datenesss in the Merc, the M3 induction noise is nearly as good as the AMG's exhaust (but is enjoyed less often on the road), the M3 really does handle a lot better unless you spend zillions changing the C63 like I did, the DCT gearbox is the best 'box ever, the latest iDrive is the best comms interface I've seen.

In summary, the Merc blows you away at first but you tire of it sooner. On this basis, I fully understand how a 1-2 day test drive would tempt you into the AMG. The M3 is less special initially but has a deeper talent to keep you entertained for longer and as I've said before, the only car in the last 6 years that I've kept for longer than 12 months (my first M3 that was).

If you've definitely narrowed it down to these two then buy the M3 and buy it in that colour. But make sure you get a HUGE chunk of money off it....just remember, I bought my M3 in the summer for about £15k less than list - OK, it was a demo but unless you get something approaching that discount, it's going to drop worrying amounts of cash very quickly.

<snip>

Just joshing, never drove either so I know jack, I'd just be happy to afford the petrol...

[The_Bear_Yid]

I'll say again what I said in the original thread, lol at 'Pirot Sport'. Need to get me some of those

[Palmnuts]

Originally Posted by rickyjones1209

Didn't you go from a c63 back to an m3?

Yep, but this proves very little. I went from a 911 Turbo to a Masershiti

It's as much on how breakfast makes me feel on what car I'll buy that day!

Originally Posted by E92westy

A load of stuff with big quotes

I'm not specifically saying in this thread that I would have a C63 over an M3 again (that would be foolish, given my various historical comments on this subject!) but I'm merely adding some balance to a thread that starts by showing each car on a track....which highlights the C63 at it's worst and an M3 at it's best! In no way does it reflect the reality of owning them in the real world, for the majority of people.

Put them on a drag strip and the tables would be turned, in the real world and it can go either way....with these two cars, you can find a variety of scenario's where one car will appear superior and it's a shame that the C63 tends to get a kicking compared to the M3 because the handling aspect is always over-indexed compared to how important this is in real life, to most people.

Pretty much everything I said there still stands, except possibly the dateness of the interior as this really does apply to both cars now (sorry, realise I am saying this on an e92 forum, but that is the case...and is allowed in the off-topic section ). In fact, the C63's facelift does now make it less dated inside but appreciate it's all subjective.

I also must have been on crack that day to write 'the Merc blows you away at first but you tire of it sooner' as I think the sheer fact I owned the C63's for significantly longer would say otherwise. There was a major element of the C63 that I personally tired of which led to me saying this (vibrating steering column) but I believe the facelift also fixed this.

For the record, which one WOULD I buy again given the choice?

Tough....theres a lot that is better dynamically on the M3 (hence it's superiority on that video) but so much of it simply isn't highlighted enough to be enjoyed everyday on the road....conditions just don't allow for it. Also, with the facelift C63 having the new MCT 'box, a much better interior and I believe the steering 'vibrations' cured (not driven one so can't confirm), it would seem the areas of the C63 which annoyed me have been addressed.

In truth, I would buy one of them, then wish I'd bought the other, then I'd go and actually buy the other, then wish I'd kept the other

As a car with a large 'sense of occasion' for the urban commute, hammering up and down the motorway and doing long 'touring' trips at the weekend (all pretty much reflecting my driving life these days), it has to be the C63.

Originally Posted by verysideways

You really think the C63 has better steering feel than the M3?

Yes, I do. The M3's variable rack simply changes in feel too much as you apply lock and it doesn't provide as much information on what happening.

What you're possible referring to is steering 'precision' and in this respect, the M3 is better - you can place the car more precisely on the road. It just doesn't feel as good.

IMO, in daily driving I probably tend to enjoy the superior 'feel' more often than having that final degree of precision.


And yes, even these cars are largely bought by the average Joe...the overwhelmingly majority of the driving populous wouldn't even reach 'average' status IMO because, for example, sat behind the wheel of an M3, they wouldn't have scooby doo that the M3's steering rack even changes in feel!

Even most car 'enthusiasts' (the type who probably buy such cars, but still a small percentage of owners when you consider how many of these are on the road) could only be deemed average at best in terms of ability. And in this respect, I'm under no illusion....even though I tend to know what I'm looking for (if only because of the variety of cars I've owned) I'd still class myself in this 'average' group.

[briers]

Blonde & brunette

You have to have both at some stage. Both look good, both feel good, yet slight differences. I probably dont even have the skill to truly highlight the differences on the road. I would just enjoy driving them.

c63 however is probably my first choice, for the engine and drivability from lower rpm's but i would be excited to jump into a DCT M3 and always be thinking when that day comes.