[kaishang]

BMW have stated that they want to sell 1 million cars a year within the next few years.

For comparison Toyota sell about 8 million/year and Mercedes Benz about 1.2 million/year.

Jaguar by comparison is < 300,000

So.... BMW is a volume seller - expect to see a lot of BMWs around.

In particular you can expect the number of BMWs vs Toyotas and other mass market cars to be skewed higher in places like Europe and the USA with low tarrifs and flat taxes compared with many developing countries (and even Australia) who penalise BMW and other premium priced manufacturers with steep import duties or "luxury" taxes.

[HighlandPete]

BMW's penetration into the UK market share has been quite impressive. But a lot of the cars are, as said, the lower end of the line up. Up here the dealers have loads of small engine, low spec' cars. Mostly diesel, a few small petrol engines, virtually no big engine petrol models at all. I would say to see a 330i, or a 335i in winter time is very rare indeed. A few in the summer, when folks are up here on holiday.

I know a few used car sites report the 3-series is the most viewed car, people aspire to own one, but many are disappointed in the lower spec' cars, as they do seem pretty basic, compared to the toy count on many lesser brands.

BMW seem to have it in the bag for image and tax liabilities, even the F10 5-series 520d SE is priced very close to 3-series 320d model. Makes it the car to have, in the next sector up. In fact it is far better value than the 320d SE when you cross check the spec's.

My concern is always the residual values. We are no longer in the same position, as even a handful of years ago. Makes buying less attractive than is was. Same car (eg: 330d, similar value) costs about £100 per month more now than it did 4-years ago. All because of the residual being weaker.

HighlandPete

[Sportplus]

I'm one off the lower end owners with a 318d M sport plus, The reason i got this model was for how it looked, MPG, build quility and was good value with the added toys (sat nav, heated seats). I can understand the folk with the 330 and 335s looking down there nose at us poor pesants but not everyone has a fortune to spend on a nice car. I would love to own a 335D but it would be over £850 a month with the same spec and fuel bills would also add to this.

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

BMW seem to have it in the bag for image and tax liabilities, even the F10 5-series 520d SE is priced very close to 3-series 320d model. Makes it the car to have, in the next sector up. In fact it is far better value than the 320d SE when you cross check the spec's.

The F-10 is a very well spec'd car in base form.

Originally Posted by Sportplus

I'm one off the lower end owners with a 318d M sport plus, The reason i got this model was for how it looked, MPG, build quility and was good value with the added toys (sat nav, heated seats). I can understand the folk with the 330 and 335s looking down there nose at us poor pesants but not everyone has a fortune to spend on a nice car. I would love to own a 335D but it would be over £850 a month with the same spec and fuel bills would also add to this.

Not at all, you're missing the point I was trying to make. Maybe my wording was poor as I mentioned engine size. The very fact that you have options in your car such Sport Plus, nav, heated seats etc says it's not a "base" model.

[Merv B]

Well compared to Sportplus my 320d SE is pretty much billy basic, but I wanted a car that had decent reliability and comfort. It is there to do a job without costing me a fortune, simple as that.

I like the car and it has a few nice touches such as cruise control and parking sensors (Audis tend to be very spratan in comparison) and I have added M-Sport seats as the standards lacked the support I had in my old Civic. I bought it with 80k on over 18 mths ago and it now has 102k and I will keep it for a good few years yet unless it lets me down big time or I stuff it in a hedge.

Looking at the 330d and 335d I couldnt afford to run one simple as that and my bank balance would certainly not entertain a big petrol engine with the cost of fuel at the pump.

Incidently the people at my old job are telling me that BMs are now the standard company car. Most were chosing BMs anyway becuase when they turned up at a clients it looked a little more upper crust than a Mondeo.

My 2p

Merv

[CHG]

I see what you're all saying...and I agree that the majority of the ones I saw were 318/320 (apart from a couple of 335's)

There was one black 335 E92, with a nice spoiler and a bald guy with glasses driving it if that was anyone on here, heading south on the M6? Had a private plate on which I can't remember.

Unfortunately, the 318/320 MAKE the 3 series a common car...Just hope they don't dilute the brand!

[Tippo]

How can a 320 dilute the brand, my 320d lump is the main reason I bought a BMW, 0-60 in about 8 secs and up to 60mpg.

Small dick compensators in 335's dilute the brand imho......

[toxicnerve]

Erm Tippo. Not sure what you're getting at? No one said anything negative about the 320d. We're just saying the accesibility of these cars is what makes them so popular.

I don't think and said anything that justifies your (perceived) aggression...

[Em135eye]

So those of us with the quicker models bought them to compensate for other shortcomings? I bought mine because its fast and fun yet frugalish.

[Tippo]

Sorry my opinion may come across aggressive but the snobbery I am reading on here stinks tbh.

You opinions on wanting a faster car are taken on board mate, hopefully in the same way you can take on board me saying that the 320 being popular is not DILUTING the brand as such.

You see my point is that people will read this and will start to see 320 drivers as common and cheap, if that is the case then I am just re-addressing a balance here that's all really.

[Em135eye]

I think this forum is refreshingly snob free. I also think you're being a touch defensive.

Chill out.

[Oli]

Originally Posted by Tippo

Sorry my opinion may come across aggressive but the snobbery I am reading on here stinks tbh.

You opinions on wanting a faster car are taken on board mate, hopefully in the same way you can take on board me saying that the 320 being popular is not DILUTING the brand as such.

You see my point is that people will read this and will start to see 320 drivers as common and cheap, if that is the case then I am just re-addressing a balance here that's all really.

Get back in your box peasant

[beemerbird]

Originally Posted by Tippo

Sorry my opinion may come across aggressive but the snobbery I am reading on here stinks tbh.

You opinions on wanting a faster car are taken on board mate, hopefully in the same way you can take on board me saying that the 320 being popular is not DILUTING the brand as such.

You see my point is that people will read this and will start to see 320 drivers as common and cheap, if that is the case then I am just re-addressing a balance here that's all really.

That's a tad contradictory saying about snobbery as no doubt part of the reason you bought the 320d is for the badge snobbery as maybe perceived by others.

Ok, maybe dilluting could be misconstrued, more like the general populous get used to seeing BMW's on the roads (many 320d's), that a degree of exclusivity may be lost. Or, you could argue that they are a victim of their own success which has its pros and cons as previously said.

One thing is for sure, BMW will continue to offer to the market 320d's in as many numbers as possible (especially fleet sales at discounted prices) as they are in the market for selling and making a profit and won't care how it may or may not affect private owners.

I personally think it's a lot of money to pay new for a car with a 2.0 diesel engine, however nearly new or second hand is different. But one thing I do not think of them is cheap, either figuratively or literally. However if anyone dares to start modding them in a tasteless fashion, then they will start to look common and cheap. Just the way I see it.

[rich1068]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

However if anyone dares to start modding them in a tasteless fashion, then they will start to look common and cheap. Just the way I see it.

Actually, good point that. Look at MKIV Golfs. Rapidly replacing the Saxo and Clio as chav-mobile of choice.

[toxicnerve]

Nothing to do with snobbery mate. Just pointing out that many of the E9x cars you will see on the road will be fleet/lease vehicles (again nothing wrong with that and not saying they are bad cars) with a basic spec.

Someone suggested that the great thing about BMWs is that they carry a lot of the features throughout the model range. I was just pointing out that the more spec'd up cars are significantly different. I didn't mention price or imply that owners of lesser models were peasants. If that's what you inferred from any of my posts then you are way off base and I suggest you chill out a little bit.

As for "modders" getting hold of the cars. Surely that is happening already and even happened when the cars were new/expensive? Look at our very own Marlie's car? Definitely not to my taste (no offence mate) and I am sure it wouldn't be to many other people too.

But I know what BB is getting at. As the "driven through Halfords at 100mph" crowd get hold of the cars then it will be a sad day, even more so as I will still be driving my unmolested E92 for a good few years to come yet (for, admittedly financial reasons...so I hope you can see that I am not a snob a I definitely can't afford change my car on a whim).

Just to reiterate, I was just making an observation and not a judgement. There's a difference.

[dghdgh]

whoops sorry for diluting the brand but 28k was my limit I would rather invest in the cars spec than engine
having just left £415 tax band down £125 I am quite happy
I must confess I was amased with the spec on the sport +
but 2.0lt engine will do me just fine

[leetennis]

Describing a 318 se as poverty spec is a bit stuck up, if actually meant that way.
Maybe m3 drivers describe a 335 as a poor mans m3.
M5 owners might think every m3 owner really wanted an m5 and so on.....
Aspire to what's above don't degrade what's below, those who have earn't it have been there before.

[toxicnerve]

Originally Posted by leetennis

Describing a 318 se as poverty spec is a bit stuck up, if actually meant that way.
Maybe m3 drivers describe a 335 as a poor mans m3.
M5 owners might think every m3 owner really wanted an m5 and so on.....
Aspire to what's above don't degrade what's below, those who have earn't it have been there before.

That's just a turn of phrase that's used here and on other car forums!

[Vaheed1]

There's a reason as to why things, as a whole, become 'common' - it's because they're good at what they do and most crucially of all, hold a better value in terms of money. The 3 series has been on top of it's game for decades now, which makes it more desirable. Making it more desirable makes it hold it's value and to some degree demand inflated and unrealistic prices.

I saw a crazy stat the other day - it said the Autotrader website gets searched for BMW's for something like 70% of all searches each day. What does that tell you? not only are they desirable as a fleet/lease option (although a lease option is good for any car, as there's no depreciation to worry about) but also as a used car to own outright by people.

And please don't insult people who have "lesser" models than than yourselves. Everyone has the right to own/drive what they a) please and b) what they can afford. I look at 09/10/60 models and wish mine was newer......even if they were 316/318/320/325's - Actually, I would go as far as saying, most drivers couldn't give a hoot at the difference in engine sizes because they aren't interested in the speed or agility of the car - but the fact that it's a comfortable place to be and looks nice.

I buy my cars ONLY because of the way they drive and how they fit in to my lifestyle at the time.

[wayne71]

I think most people pottering about in 318 and 320 probably havent got a clue what a 335i is or how to notice the difference between se and m sport. They just want a nice car with a nice badge that's comfortable and reliable has a few gadgets and couldn't give a hoot what engines in it, as long as its economical.

The few car enthusiasts who have these cars are probably fairly young and probably aspire to own better models in the future. As I do myself when I have a bit more cash and no longer have the need for rear seats

[the_rangdo]

Originally Posted by wayne71

I think most people pottering about in 318 and 320 probably havent got a clue what a 335i is or how to notice the difference between se and m sport. They just want a nice car with a nice badge that's comfortable and reliable has a few gadgets and couldn't give a hoot what engines in it, as long as its economical.

The few car enthusiasts who have these cars are probably fairly young and probably aspire to own better models in the future. As I do myself when I have a bit more cash and no longer have the need for rear seats

Err wrong

I don't 'potter' and neither am I young (well, depends on how you view 42, but anyway... ).

The vast majority (95%+) of my driving is commuting on the M62 where the ave speed is 50-60 on a good day. A 318d is fine for that, while being relatively cheap to run. A 335 might help me reach that 60mph a couple of seconds quicker but it's all fairly pointless really.

And sure it's not going to win any land-speed records, but it's still a fun enough car when on twisty roads around Oxford and Cornwall while on holiday.

It's a balance based on some performance, some style (badge or not, I think they're fine looking cars), and some economy, as there are other areas of life that are far more important to spend money on than lumps of metal.

If/when I'm a gentleman of leisure I may aspire to something 'better'

[Tippo]

Originally Posted by Oli

Get back in your box peasant