[Humble335i]

Originally Posted by vase330

You could have gone to strip club and spent it on lap dances for all we care.

If anyone is up for spending 2k on lap dances, I'm there for ya.

Just throwing it out there ...

[YvesD]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

We enthusiast are crazy to begin with as this car really doesn't need any more power than it comes with from the factory. But this is a review of the JB3 1.22 not an evaluation on my spending logic, which I will admit, is faulty at best.
Kelvin

Well said Sir, thats perfect logic actually.

Yves

[Lotus99]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

4) I figured I still own the Dinan flash I paid for and can go back to it, ANY TIME I WANT.
Kelvin

So you think if you go back to Dinan, you'll still have their warranty? Do you effectively have the Dinan warranty and the power of a JB3? (for an extra $600 over the Dinan price)

[LODOSS]

sounds like you are really enjoying it!

I hope to get my installed soon but freezing temp with no garage would = bad install day.

Please post some dyno pulls as soon as you get them done. =)

[Kelvin1000]

The car is completely stock:

Just did a Dyno on 93 octane and pulled 348 which is better than the 324 on the Dinan and great versus the 285 stock.

I don't know why the JB3 graph looks so jumpy compared to the stock and Dinan Stage 2?

The only other observation I have is that the car is running a lot leaner than the Dinan Stage 2. It actually almost replicates the stock air/fuel curve that the car originally comes with (which is also a lot leaner than the Dinan).

I don't know if this is on purpose or if it has to be this way in order to maintain diagnostic invisibility???

Any othe comments?

[sycd]

Which rev was the Dinan tune in these results? Rev 1 or the detuned rev 2?

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

I don't know why the JB3 graph looks so jumpy compared to the stock and Dinan Stage 2?

The DME was battling something whether it be knock events, etc.

And it does look a bit lean when compared to previous JB pulls I have seen.

[Kelvin1000]

Originally Posted by sycd

Which rev was the Dinan tune in these results? Rev 1 or the detuned rev 2?

Dinan Stage 2, Revision 2

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by Kelvin1000

Dinan Stage 2, Revision 2

Thanks for the dynos. Does the car feel jumpy? I don't like how lean it's running.

[Kelvin1000]

Smooth as butter...

I wonder how the air / fuel ranges are for the Procede and the other flash thats out there??? Almost all dynos I see do not include this part of the equation.

Do keep in mind that it is almost identical to the stock a/f... Dinan doesn't have to be invisible so it can probably deviate from the fuel deliver parameters. It runs a lot richer for sure...

There are also many real world aspects that don't show up on the dyno such as how much does each tune knock timming when driving hard for a prolonged amount of time, how rich is the mix up top and during gear shifts and how the a/f affects fuel economy in general. We need to keep exploring this...

The tune really does feel very strong though.

[Kelvin1000]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Thanks for the dynos. Does the car feel jumpy? I don't like how lean it's running.

Looks like most other Procede and JB3 dynos are exactly the same as far as a/f ratios go. I think it has to do with trying to follow the stock a/f to retain diagnostic invisibility...

The smoothing was also 3 vs 5 so that might have something to do with it as well...

[Kelvin1000]

Will try to re-dyno today with an adapted map 4

KP

[Steve.breen@dinan]

Thanks for the comparison graphs, Kelvin.

The Dinan tune runs richer than the JB3 and stock because it's necessary to run a richer mixture when increasing boost. As you increase cylinder pressure by adding boost, the mixture needs to be richened for a couple reasons. The first is to reduce detonation, a side effect of increased cylinder pressure. Incidentally, the reason why the JB3 power curve is so lumpy is because the knock control system is actively pulling timing back in order to save the engine from detonation. The second reason for a richer mixture is to reduce piston crown temperature and catalytic converter temperature to ensure long-term durability.

Our tech article titled "Safety Strategies for a BMW Turbo Control System" is a good resource for more information:

http://www.dinancars.com/bmw/technial-info

[M4TW]

Originally Posted by Steve.breen@dinan

Thanks for the comparison graphs, Kelvin.

The Dinan tune runs richer than the JB3 and stock because it's necessary to run a richer mixture when increasing boost. As you increase cylinder pressure by adding boost, the mixture needs to be richened for a couple reasons. The first is to reduce detonation, a side effect of increased cylinder pressure. Incidentally, the reason why the JB3 power curve is so lumpy is because the knock control system is actively pulling timing back in order to save the engine from detonation. The second reason for a richer mixture is to reduce piston crown temperature and catalytic converter temperature to ensure long-term durability.

Our tech article titled "Safety Strategies for a BMW Turbo Control System" is a good resource for more information:

http://www.dinancars.com/bmw/technial-info

A rare pronouncement from the Mother Ship. Are you guys planning anything new, e.g CAI?

[getInline]

Originally Posted by Steve.breen@dinan

Thanks for the comparison graphs, Kelvin.

The Dinan tune runs richer than the JB3 and stock because it's necessary to run a richer mixture when increasing boost. As you increase cylinder pressure by adding boost, the mixture needs to be richened for a couple reasons. The first is to reduce detonation, a side effect of increased cylinder pressure. Incidentally, the reason why the JB3 power curve is so lumpy is because the knock control system is actively pulling timing back in order to save the engine from detonation. The second reason for a richer mixture is to reduce piston crown temperature and catalytic converter temperature to ensure long-term durability.

Our tech article titled "Safety Strategies for a BMW Turbo Control System" is a good resource for more information:

http://www.dinancars.com/bmw/technial-info

A very restrained, professional and informative post. This would be a nice lead for everyone to follow. Thanks

[pdjafari]

Originally Posted by Steve.breen@dinan

Thanks for the comparison graphs, Kelvin.

The Dinan tune runs richer than the JB3 and stock because it's necessary to run a richer mixture when increasing boost. As you increase cylinder pressure by adding boost, the mixture needs to be richened for a couple reasons. The first is to reduce detonation, a side effect of increased cylinder pressure. Incidentally, the reason why the JB3 power curve is so lumpy is because the knock control system is actively pulling timing back in order to save the engine from detonation. The second reason for a richer mixture is to reduce piston crown temperature and catalytic converter temperature to ensure long-term durability.

Our tech article titled "Safety Strategies for a BMW Turbo Control System" is a good resource for more information:

http://www.dinancars.com/bmw/technial-info

Good post, so since Dinan confirms that the JB3 IS in fact pulling timing, does this close the case where Shiv/Scalbert Vishnu camp claim the JB3 doest not pull timing??

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by pdjafari

Good post, so since Dinan confirms that the JB3 IS in fact pulling timing, does this close the case where Shiv/Scalbert Vishnu camp claim the JB3 doest not pull timing??

He said the knock control system is pulling timing, not the JB3. That is a big difference.

And once again, I have not said the JB3 is or is not controlling timing. I have said it doesn't do it through X or Y methods but have not ruled it out completely. More testing will be needed to make a conclusion.

[pdjafari]

Originally Posted by scalbert

He said the knock control system is pulling timing, not the JB3. That is a big difference.

And once again, I have not said the JB3 is or is not controlling timing. I have said it doesn't do it through X or Y methods but have not ruled it out completely. More testing will be needed to make a conclusion.

Oh ok my mistake. Noob question though, why does it matter which is pulling timing (tune vs DME/ECU - knock control system)? As long as timing is being pulled, does it really matter how its being performed? Not trying to start a war/argument, just trying to "edumacate" myself

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by pdjafari

Oh ok my mistake. Noob question though, why does it matter which is pulling timing (tune vs DME/ECU - knock control system)? As long as timing is being pulled, does it really matter how its being performed? Not trying to start a war/argument, just trying to "edumacate" myself

If the DME is pulling timing due to knock events, knock has already occured. If you can prevent the knock from occuring at all by proactively retarding timing, you have less knock events. Knock events slowly cause damage to the internals.

Does that make sense?

[pdjafari]

Originally Posted by scalbert

If the DME is pulling timing due to knock events, knock has already occured. If you can prevent the knock from occuring at all by proactively retarding timing, you have less knock events. Knock events slowly cause damage to the internals.

Does that make sense?

Yes it does, thanks for the explanation

[Mike@N54Tuning.com]

Originally Posted by scalbert

He said the knock control system is pulling timing, not the JB3. That is a big difference.

And once again, I have not said the JB3 is or is not controlling timing. I have said it doesn't do it through X or Y methods but have not ruled it out completely. More testing will be needed to make a conclusion.

In this case the customer did not allow the car enough time to adapt from the stock map, and was using a very aggressive map in map 6. He retested with map 4 after adaption time and his curve was much smoother.

Mike

[scalbert]

Originally Posted by Mike@N54Tuning.com

In this case the customer did not allow the car enough time to adapt from the stock map, and was using a very aggressive map in map 6. He retested with map 4 after adaption time and his curve was much smoother.

Mike

But that suggestion would indicate a reliance on the stock ignition control system to adapt It shouldn't need to if timing is being actively controlled. I still want to beleive timing is actively being controlled but the more I have seen, it is getting more difficult to have faith in.