[IN54NITY]

Originally Posted by Nikolas

Originally Posted by cb1111

You forgot
9. Driver
10.Driver

Originally Posted by mmisterio

XI or I?!

After watching the video, the mod list has been modified:

1) Hans Stuck: driver; you: sit in passenger seat.

(end of list)

Skip the xi/i debate, so OP, get the ZHSD option, since I believe Hans drives for BMW now.

[Kolyan2k]

Here is the link to CD by the way:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._bimmer_page_4

[DJ 83]

I have a new 2011 X Drive model, and from what I've noticed so far this summer, compared to my previous 2007 328i (without the snow falling yet), is that I get a slightly better takeoff from the start, but it seems to fade once the rear wheels get all that weight transfered down to the rear of the car. Then at that point when that happens, I think the AWD factor is gone and it serves no purpose in terms of take-offs.

But then again on the other hand, you have to take the added frontal weight and overall weight distribution into consideration.

Winter is coming! Yay, wahooo! (NOT). Time to put the X-Drive to the test. I will post more about X Drive once I get a sample of winter driving with an X model, with winter tires.

[TheStigsTwin]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

Here is the link to CD by the way:

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/..._bimmer_page_4

But er, they never actually take the xi to the track nor do they compare the i to the xi on performance stats. They just say 'we know the xi is faster off the line to the quartermile but we think the i is gonna perform better so we're gonna use that in this comparo" which pretty much proves nada in relationship to our current arguement. I'm glad you like car and driver and all, (perhaps more than some of us) but this article in no way supports any kind of performance superiority of the i over the xi.

[cb1111]

Let's talk pros and cons

xi pros

slightly better acceleration
Better snow/wet weather behavior
More ground clearance

x cons

lower gas mileage
higher stance

[BTM]

Originally Posted by TheStigsTwin

But er, they never actually take the xi to the track nor do they compare the i to the xi on performance stats. They just say 'we know the xi is faster off the line to the quartermile but we think the i is gonna perform better so we're gonna use that in this comparo" which pretty much proves nada in relationship to our current arguement. I'm glad you like car and driver and all, (perhaps more than some of us) but this article in no way supports any kind of performance superiority of the i over the xi.

Obviously the idea that the "better" car in certain situations may not accelerate the fastest is completely lost on you. Do you launch your car from every standstill? No. Do you get feedback from the steering wheel every time you take a turn? Yes. This is why many like the RWD over the AWD, because overall they experience the drivetrain's strengths on a more regular basis and do not drive regularly enough in conditions where the potentially lost grip makes a difference. No one is arguing that the i accelerates faster than the xi. If that's all you care about, then the choice is simple. If you care about handling beyond aggregate grip (which really tells nothing of a car's handling characteristics, just how much grip it generates) then there numerous instances of the RWD model be preferred, and not just in the BMW 335 E90 chassis. Until technology or engineering or whatever can overcome, the general for those concerned with steering feel and weight distribution is that FWD<AWD<RWD. It is simplest to say we all agree to disagree, which in the end of the argument we are all doing. Claiming that an xi handles better because it has more grip, or that it is faster at a dragstrip, when the majority of users NEVER TRACK THEIR CARS, just makes you look like an ignoramus in denial.

The simplest thing for the OP to do is to GO DRIVE BOTH and DECIDE FOR HIMSELF

[BTM]

Originally Posted by cb1111

Let's talk pros and cons

All things equal...(tires, driver, conditions, etc.)

xi pros (in relation to i)

slightly better acceleration
Better snow/wet weather behavior
More ground clearance
"every option" factor (important to some)
Piece of mind in inclement conditions



x cons (in relation to i)

lower gas mileage
higher stance
higher weight
unbalanced weight distribution
steering feedback down, vague/numbness up
No OEM sport suspension when desired
faster brake wear

If you don't mind me adding a few adjustments. Feel free to agree, disagree, and expound upon.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by TheStigsTwin

But er, they never actually take the xi to the track nor do they compare the i to the xi on performance stats. They just say 'we know the xi is faster off the line to the quartermile but we think the i is gonna perform better so we're gonna use that in this comparo" which pretty much proves nada in relationship to our current arguement. I'm glad you like car and driver and all, (perhaps more than some of us) but this article in no way supports any kind of performance superiority of the i over the xi.

do you think CD people are so stupid and they have never drove the XI ? they obviously HAVE, and they know what they are talking about. Just like i dont need to have stats for some Buick and m3, i know its fact that m3 will kill any Buick.

when they compare 2 different car makers, i can be skeptical, but this is i vs xi they are talking about. i believe them 100%. not only THEY state it, but this is what BMW is stating, and this is MY personal opinion.

and to date, i have never read anything good, performance oriented towards x-drive, and yet i have read a ton about Quattro, Acura SH, EVO, and STI

[k3m0-330i]

335i.... xi is gay i think

[BTM]

Originally Posted by k3m0-330i

335i.... xi is gay i think

And there you have it folks

[chenx15]

i have driven both rwd and xdrive with both sports suspensions of the 335. maybe because i am not a prodriver but i can barely feel the difference and i even tried to do same sharp corners on both cars and they feel exactly the same at exactly the same speed.

[pits200]

Toss some coilovers on the XI, raise it up in the winter, lower it down in the summer and you'll have the best of both worlds.

Yes you can do the same for the i but the difference will not be as big considering the height of the xi in stock form so you'll get more drastic results lowering the xi.

[TheStigsTwin]

Originally Posted by BTM

Obviously the idea that the "better" car in certain situations may not accelerate the fastest is completely lost on you. Do you launch your car from every standstill? No. Do you get feedback from the steering wheel every time you take a turn? Yes. This is why many like the RWD over the AWD, because overall they experience the drivetrain's strengths on a more regular basis and do not drive regularly enough in conditions where the potentially lost grip makes a difference. No one is arguing that the i accelerates faster than the xi. If that's all you care about, then the choice is simple. If you care about handling beyond aggregate grip (which really tells nothing of a car's handling characteristics, just how much grip it generates) then there numerous instances of the RWD model be preferred, and not just in the BMW 335 E90 chassis. Until technology or engineering or whatever can overcome, the general for those concerned with steering feel and weight distribution is that FWD<AWD<RWD. It is simplest to say we all agree to disagree, which in the end of the argument we are all doing. Claiming that an xi handles better because it has more grip, or that it is faster at a dragstrip, when the majority of users NEVER TRACK THEIR CARS, just makes you look like an ignoramus in denial.

The simplest thing for the OP to do is to GO DRIVE BOTH and DECIDE FOR HIMSELF

Did you read what I posted at all, or did you get completely lost in your own personal opinion yet again? Go back, read what I said and then tell me at which point I stated the xi is a better car because its faster from 0-120mph than the I? I didn't . You said that. Tell me I said the xi handles better than the I? I didn't. I did say, that there is NO data stating the I handles better. None posted by you. None posted by car and driver . None posted by BMW. If you have that data I would love to see it. Posting the car weights is not data. Why? Ok, I'll say this real slow so you can understand: the car is the sum of many parts. People assume that the xi is the same suspension set up as i but it has awd. False. It's a different setup designed to compensate both for the increased weight and the awd system. That is why BMW has not set it up for the upgrade in the sport pacakge. Because upgrading it would require it's own seperate recalibration and BMW will not spend money on that until volume demands it. Too complex for you? I'm not surprised. Your whole "I get better steering wheel feedback" theory is a load. You get different steering wheel feedback, not better. And if anything , the difference in handling between these two cars is so negligable that on the street, where as you say 99% of us will be driving, there will be little or no difference fealt. Oh but I forgot, you feel it. You're not a pro. You're the HVAC guy from Chicago. So yeah I should let you try to shout me down. Your whole selfabsorption is making you look like an ingnoramus in denial.

[TheStigsTwin]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

do you think CD people are so stupid and they have never drove the XI ? they obviously HAVE, and they know what they are talking about. Just like i dont need to have stats for some Buick and m3, i know its fact that m3 will kill any Buick.

when they compare 2 different car makers, i can be skeptical, but this is i vs xi they are talking about. i believe them 100%. not only THEY state it, but this is what BMW is stating, and this is MY personal opinion.

and to date, i have never read anything good, performance oriented towards x-drive, and yet i have read a ton about Quattro, Acura SH, EVO, and STI

automobile.com's review of 335xi "the feedback from its deliciously thick steering wheel was nothing short of glorious"

and "BMW blesses its cars with a wonderful sense of balance that’s achieved by tirelessly working to get a near perfect weight distribution. It makes the car feel very sure footed and quite willing to change direction. Coupled with a suspension that has zero compromises (it seems to strike a perfect medium between a luxurious ride and mechanical grip), a chassis that seems to have been hewn from a block of steel, and throttle tip-in from the Gods, the car lives up to the badges on the hood, trunk lid and steering wheel hub. It’s also incredibly refined, with shifts in town melting into one anther, with no undue noises or vibrations"

autoweek's review of 2010 335xi coupe "
Everything else is marvelous--brakes, steering, chassis control, the works"

and
"
The chassis is rock solid and the suspension tuned for serious driving--throw the car hard into a turn and there's little roll. Mash the brakes hard and you'll notice little dive."

There, now you've read a couple good things , performance oriented, about 335xi's . Do a google and you will read a ton more.

[TheStigsTwin]

Originally Posted by BTM

And there you have it folks

Yeah I figured you would jump all over that keen and inciteful response.

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by TheStigsTwin

automobile.com's review of 335xi "the feedback from its deliciously thick steering wheel was nothing short of glorious"

and "BMW blesses its cars with a wonderful sense of balance that’s achieved by tirelessly working to get a near perfect weight distribution. It makes the car feel very sure footed and quite willing to change direction. Coupled with a suspension that has zero compromises (it seems to strike a perfect medium between a luxurious ride and mechanical grip), a chassis that seems to have been hewn from a block of steel, and throttle tip-in from the Gods, the car lives up to the badges on the hood, trunk lid and steering wheel hub. It’s also incredibly refined, with shifts in town melting into one anther, with no undue noises or vibrations"

autoweek's review of 2010 335xi coupe "
Everything else is marvelous--brakes, steering, chassis control, the works"

and
"
The chassis is rock solid and the suspension tuned for serious driving--throw the car hard into a turn and there's little roll. Mash the brakes hard and you'll notice little dive."

There, now you've read a couple good things , performance oriented, about 335xi's . Do a google and you will read a ton more.

Interesting.......they are not comparing 2 cars in the review so this again brings big zero to the whole argument, just like those laptimes....I can find a review on how great honda civic is.....but when compared to 335, civic is not gonna be such a great car after all.....

And review says 335xi has sport suspension....... I thought it does not ?

[k3m0-330i]

Originally Posted by BTM

And there you have it folks

I'm not lying only tellin the truth. Xi is slow, high as my truck. Even worse with auto. Just get a I so I can light them up. Lol and don't be a pussy and get a real car 335i for the win. I know I have a 330i but driven many 335i and xi

[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by pits200

Toss some coilovers on the XI, raise it up in the winter, lower it down in the summer and you'll have the best of both worlds.

Yes you can do the same for the i but the difference will not be as big considering the height of the xi in stock form so you'll get more drastic results lowering the xi.

True....true.....but then again you can through in LSD on 335i and that ^ is not gonna be True anymore.... < thats why its better to compare stock.

lets just say that you CAN (relatively cheap) make 335i handle BETTER then M3, but you can NOT make 335xi handle better or even the same as M3. < which makes me think why isnt M3 fitted with "performance" x-drive system ?

[BTM]

Originally Posted by TheStigsTwin

Yeah I figured you would jump all over that keen and inciteful response.

You're sarcasm meter is a little off...u mad?

[BTM]

Originally Posted by TheStigsTwin

Your whole "I get better steering wheel feedback" theory is a load. You get different steering wheel feedback, not better. And if anything , the difference in handling between these two cars is so negligable that on the street, where as you say 99% of us will be driving, there will be little or no difference fealt. Oh but I forgot, you feel it. You're not a pro. You're the HVAC guy from Chicago. So yeah I should let you try to shout me down. Your whole selfabsorption is making you look like an ingnoramus in denial.

You may noticed that I've have made a clear effort to qualify my posts as my opinion and offer insight as to why many prefer the RWD chassis. The RWD does give "different" feedback, you're right. It gives more, undiluted feedback. Is it the best steering in any car ever? Obviously not. But IMO having more, undiluted communication is more confidence inspiring on a daily basis than having AWD. For the billionth time, this is my opinion. As I alluded to in my previous post, we agree to disagree, and that's that. OP needs to drive both and decide what he likes better.

Feel free to attack what you assume my occupation is when in fact I could not come fix your broken furnace. If you have a small business though, I could certainly manage it. Just so happens that I manage a family HVAC business, and am able to offer deals from time to time to local forum members...hence my signature. What this has to do with an AWD/RWD debate I'm not entirely sure, as I've mentioned numerous times that I'm not a pro, I don't track my car, and to me the difference is obvious, and so was the choice. Further, I fail to see how someone's occupation can invalidate their personal opinion on how to spec their car. I've never said one is better or one is worse as a "sum of their parts," just that I prefer the RWD, this is why, provided some weight and distribution info to offer some objectivity as to WHY many are finding the RWD more balanced, and told the OP to drive both chassis. Yup, I'm the ignoramus.

[ruxp]

xi + coilovers is incredible.

[pits200]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

True....true.....but then again you can through in LSD on 335i and that ^ is not gonna be True anymore.... < thats why its better to compare stock.

lets just say that you CAN (relatively cheap) make 335i handle BETTER then M3, but you can NOT make 335xi handle better or even the same as M3. < which makes me think why isnt M3 fitted with "performance" x-drive system ?

The point I bring up the coils is because they are much easier to install than to install an LSD on the i.

It's just that people say the xdrive system isn't for performance and Im not claiming that it is superior to the rwd version. But what makes the xdrive not as good of a performer is the vehicle height and not the actual awd system.

This is a never ending argument because there are positives to both side of the argument.