Opinions on base system upgrade

Beisofmarko · 06-29-2015, 10:12 AM

Hello from Finland!

I recently purchased -06 e92 335i and it has Base system / proffessional navi
I'm not pleased at all with audio outcome so i'm going to upgrade it.

I've been searching alot of this stuff but this new area for me that i dont quite understand yet, so i'd like to get some advice.

Components i've been thinking to purchase so far are:

Speakers: -Jehnert Flatline Kit (tweeters, 4" mids, 8" woofers underseat)
- Leaving rear speakers stock

Dsp/amp: -Helix Match PP82DSP with Match PP-AC 13a Harness
(This is whole new thing for me so i have no clue about this but if i understood right im gonna need one of these due to some sort of oem HU signal right?)

- Is it possible to add later amp for 10" subwoofer in the trunk if i feel like its lacking some bass? And should i get amp for front or does pp82dsp have enough juice for front speakers? (I like to listen music loud and im after sound quality not spl)

Would this setup work good or is there something im missing?

Thanks!

ctuna · 06-29-2015, 11:03 AM

That's a good pick for equipment
I would try it with just the stuff you mentioned it may be
enough for you.
You can always add a sub and sub amp.
Yes you need something to flatten the HU signal or recoding to Hi Fi.

There are several thread on the Helix unit you picked on the board
I would search and read them if you haven't already .

There are several different ways to hook it up with that many channels
like going active in front with the doors.

There is also the new Helix 6 dsp lots more power but twice the price.

Don't know what the Helix Harness is like but obviously you are going to need
some type of harness and extra speaker wire if you decide to go active in the
front doors.

Beisofmarko · 06-29-2015, 12:17 PM

Thanks for fast response!

I understood that Helix would flatten/fix the signal, am i wrong?
Just like JL Audio CL441dsp CleanSweep for example?

I Have Speakers on the way allready so for now i'm just trying to find smartest solution to make them sound good, PP82DSP sounds good and you can get PnP harness for it, But if there is smarter solutions i'm all ears!

also is it smartest to go with Amp/dsp combination or just get DSP And amp for front and maybe for trunk woofer in the future?

Thanks!

ctuna · 06-29-2015, 12:21 PM

DSP is better cause it allows you to adjust the sound
on each individual channel plus time delay.
which goes well beyond just flattening it .
Not smarter but bigger more expensive ones that could offer
more power like the 6 dsp at a cost.
You could go with separates I don't think it makes that much difference
unless you want really big power or a specific amp.

You should (will have)have some extra DSP channels depending on your configuration
to run your subwoofer but I am not sure that even makes a difference as
its dealing with such a limited frequency range on a subwoofer.

Beisofmarko · 06-29-2015, 01:07 PM

Yeah sounds good, i guess im going for PP82DSP, i think difference will be huge compared to Base system. I was just thinking that is PP82DSP too underpowered for Jehnerts.. Helix P SIX DSP would have enough juice if not even too much but they are kinda pricey so maybe i'll pass that for now.

So basicly if i order PP82DSP and PnP harness to connect it oem HU, I should be good to go? No need to recode to Hi-Fi because of HU Signal or anything? (ofcourse some adjusting and so on, but no problems with HU Signal?)

Thanks again!

ctuna · 06-29-2015, 01:42 PM

There are several build thread using the 82dsp
You could ask those guys for subjective reviews.
None of them are unhappy with it and 6spd coupe
uses it to run Jehnert Doorboards and says its plenty loud.
Its in a different Universe than the base system.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=82dsp

It says bridging is possible if you want to up the power on some speaker locations.
IN the thread above.

The other unit that is kind of in the same ballpark is the Mosconi 120.4 DSP
but its only 4 channels at 120 watts per channel. Not as flexible(less channels) but it has AB power.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822366

http://www.monsteraudiodesign.co.uk/

Beisofmarko · 06-29-2015, 02:06 PM

Yeah, i was just reading that topic and i think i've made my mind to order it!

Mad respect for your time and help!

Will tell how all played out later, Thanks!

ctuna · 06-29-2015, 03:54 PM

Is the 82dsp it?

mathematics · 06-29-2015, 10:59 PM

PP82 has a ton of power. it seems to be very conservatively rated. we use a ton of them with jehnert flatline kits and they sound great!

Beisofmarko · 06-30-2015, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctuna

Is the 82dsp it?

Yeah PP82Dsp is the one i ordered! Thought i wrote it but obviously not

Now i got all the parts on the way that i need for my "stage 1" upgrade.
Next big question is how i should hook them up to get best results, should i go for active front? For the future i cannot think any changes but adding maybe amp + 10" subwoofer in the trunk, but who knows!

Thanks!

mathematics · 06-30-2015, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beisofmarko

Yeah PP82Dsp is the one i ordered! Thought i wrote it but obviously not

Now i got all the parts on the way that i need for my "stage 1" upgrade.
Next big question is how i should hook them up to get best results, should i go for active front? For the future i cannot think any changes but adding maybe amp + 10" subwoofer in the trunk, but who knows!

Thanks!

Absolutely go active. That's the whole point

You'll have to run a set of wires into the doors.

Beisofmarko · 06-30-2015, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mathematics

Absolutely go active. That's the whole point

You'll have to run a set of wires into the doors.

Yeah that's what i was thinking, I got cables and all waiting for equipment to arrive

6spdcoupe · 06-30-2015, 06:57 PM

The PnP harness is somewhat useless if going active. You will be chasing wires back and forth rather than saving time/energy using it. It is much more useful (and actually it's intent) for just upgrading/adding amplification and processing to an OE system.

6spdcoupe · 06-30-2015, 06:58 PM

You will also need to get or create a 'detune' file once installed as well. The PP82 does Not automatically flatten the source signal.

Beisofmarko · 07-01-2015, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6spdcoupe

The PnP harness is somewhat useless if going active. You will be chasing wires back and forth rather than saving time/energy using it. It is much more useful (and actually it's intent) for just upgrading/adding amplification and processing to an OE system.

I thought it was just PnP and im good to go

What would be smartest choice for me then, since going active would be best thing to do from what i've been told?

Also about "detune" file, is this something i can download/get from somewhere or something i need to make myself and if so, any quides how its done or something?

Thanks for info, everyday something new!

Beisofmarko · 07-06-2015, 07:28 AM

Hi! a few more questions just to be sure.

- I had a conversation with Don (6spdcoupe) who cleared many things for me, thanks!

I'm still not sure how to make following: I was told that in order to connect Speakers into amp, i need to cut some wires from Main harness, wich goes to system connector, i'm going to run 3-way active front since i've been told this is best solution, so i'm gonna use channels A/B tweeters, C/D 4" mids and E/F underseat subs, Leaving the G/H unused for now.

I'm using the Helix 2,2meters harness included in MatchPP82DSP box and Car specified ISO adapter (PP-AC13a) behind HU where helix harness connects. Box included a Connector with Flying Leads to Channels E/F/G/H, so i assume i just smolder New wires from underseats to those E/F flying leads and leave G/H wires hanging.

What i wanna know, is what wires i need to Cut to connect tweeters into A/B and Mids into C/D? Then wich ends to solder into new speaker 2x2.5mm2 wires that i run from new speakers to amps? There are no A-D markings on System connector so i dont know what those channels are on the connector also.

Technic told that since my car is 2006, i dont have to do jumpers or anything to underseats, just unplug oem connectors and then signal is directed to front speakers (Does this mean i have to use old speaker wiring on 4" doors to get this signal?)

For now all that my installation is waiting is information how do i exactly connect the wires

and Tweeter pods from dealer.

Thanks in advance!

ctuna · 07-06-2015, 11:42 AM

Another set of door wire is required for active.
A set that runs all the way from the amp to tweeters or 4 inchers.
If I was threading new wire I would use a thicker wire and
route that to the 4 inchers for better power transfer (lower resistance)
You will have to route them into the door for the amp.
Don't see why you would have to cut anything with the right
Harness. One that includes factory connectors .

There is only one set of wires running to the door you need two for active
most harnesses don't have this option if any do .

Beisofmarko · 07-06-2015, 01:11 PM

With wires that need to be cut i meant the channels A/B/C/D Outputs which are behind system connector in pp82dsp main harness, far as i've understood it requires only front inputs and therefore i can cut those output wires from harness and smolder new wires into them which i could run straight into 4" mids, tweeters and so on?

Tell me if im totally wrong?

Anyway i had chat with Technic and after that i ordered harness from him

Would still love to figure out the above since we are trying to install allmost same setup on different car with also Base system, except only different aftermarket speakers..

Wongway · 07-06-2015, 01:54 PM

Well, you got the harness at least.

With that, you shouldn't have to cut any wires.

Technic will usually also supply a diagram of what wires go where as well. Basically, 4 wires from the left and 4 wires from the right, all go straight back to the amplifier. From the amplifier, you'll run the respective pair of wires back to the front left underseat, another pair to the front right underseat, a pair to the left door, another pair to the right door.

Likely, if you're going active, you'll run a whole new pair to the front left tweeter, and another pair to the front right tweeter.

ctuna · 07-06-2015, 11:01 PM

Beisofmarko · 07-07-2015, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctuna

Solder is spelled Solder unless there is a translation problem .
Smolder is what happens when a fire goes out.

Yeah i spelled that wrong, obviously i meant Solder

It's all good for now, gonna just wait for the technic harness and focus on other things meanwhile... like what should i do to be able to control music from Idrive since i have no usb in armrest and i dont like searching songs from phone while driving.. Would it be smartest to get Dension or something like that or should i find all the parts for 6FL retrofit. But yeah seems to be lots of topics about that so gonna start searching info on that ->

Thanks

Beisofmarko · 07-23-2015, 12:25 PM

Hey, one problem... probably nothing but i can't figure it out...

I received today my technic harness and started installing speakers.
Now i have installed tweeters and new 4" mids, i have them connected to Jehnert crossover, but where do i connect the crossover? Should i connect it to old thin wires that were plugged into old 4" or what? Cause i cant understand where to run new cables from Crossover.. i don't see a place where to connect them...

Other than that, everything is okay and i know what to do...

Thanks in advance!

06-29-2015, 10:12 AM	#1
Beisofmarko Second Lieutenant 20 Rep 223 Posts Drives: e92 335i Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Finland iTrader: (0)	Opinions on base system upgrade Hello from Finland! I recently purchased -06 e92 335i and it has Base system / proffessional navi I'm not pleased at all with audio outcome so i'm going to upgrade it. I've been searching alot of this stuff but this new area for me that i dont quite understand yet, so i'd like to get some advice. Components i've been thinking to purchase so far are: Speakers: -Jehnert Flatline Kit (tweeters, 4" mids, 8" woofers underseat) - Leaving rear speakers stock Dsp/amp: -Helix Match PP82DSP with Match PP-AC 13a Harness (This is whole new thing for me so i have no clue about this but if i understood right im gonna need one of these due to some sort of oem HU signal right?) - Is it possible to add later amp for 10" subwoofer in the trunk if i feel like its lacking some bass? And should i get amp for front or does pp82dsp have enough juice for front speakers? (I like to listen music loud and im after sound quality not spl) Would this setup work good or is there something im missing? Thanks!
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06-29-2015, 11:03 AM	#2
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,100 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	That's a good pick for equipment That's a good pick for equipment I would try it with just the stuff you mentioned it may be enough for you. You can always add a sub and sub amp. Yes you need something to flatten the HU signal or recoding to Hi Fi. There are several thread on the Helix unit you picked on the board I would search and read them if you haven't already . There are several different ways to hook it up with that many channels like going active in front with the doors. There is also the new Helix 6 dsp lots more power but twice the price. Don't know what the Helix Harness is like but obviously you are going to need some type of harness and extra speaker wire if you decide to go active in the front doors. Last edited by ctuna; 06-29-2015 at 11:09 AM..
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06-29-2015, 12:17 PM	#3
Beisofmarko Second Lieutenant 20 Rep 223 Posts Drives: e92 335i Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Finland iTrader: (0)	HU Signal Thanks for fast response! I understood that Helix would flatten/fix the signal, am i wrong? Just like JL Audio CL441dsp CleanSweep for example? I Have Speakers on the way allready so for now i'm just trying to find smartest solution to make them sound good, PP82DSP sounds good and you can get PnP harness for it, But if there is smarter solutions i'm all ears! also is it smartest to go with Amp/dsp combination or just get DSP And amp for front and maybe for trunk woofer in the future? Thanks!
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06-29-2015, 12:21 PM	#4
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,100 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	DSP is better cause it allows you to adjust the sound DSP is better cause it allows you to adjust the sound on each individual channel plus time delay. which goes well beyond just flattening it . Not smarter but bigger more expensive ones that could offer more power like the 6 dsp at a cost. You could go with separates I don't think it makes that much difference unless you want really big power or a specific amp. You should (will have)have some extra DSP channels depending on your configuration to run your subwoofer but I am not sure that even makes a difference as its dealing with such a limited frequency range on a subwoofer. Last edited by ctuna; 06-29-2015 at 12:33 PM..
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06-29-2015, 01:07 PM	#5
Beisofmarko Second Lieutenant 20 Rep 223 Posts Drives: e92 335i Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Finland iTrader: (0)	Dsp Yeah sounds good, i guess im going for PP82DSP, i think difference will be huge compared to Base system. I was just thinking that is PP82DSP too underpowered for Jehnerts.. Helix P SIX DSP would have enough juice if not even too much but they are kinda pricey so maybe i'll pass that for now. So basicly if i order PP82DSP and PnP harness to connect it oem HU, I should be good to go? No need to recode to Hi-Fi because of HU Signal or anything? (ofcourse some adjusting and so on, but no problems with HU Signal?) Thanks again!
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06-29-2015, 01:42 PM	#6
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,100 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	There are several build thread using the 82dsp There are several build thread using the 82dsp You could ask those guys for subjective reviews. None of them are unhappy with it and 6spd coupe uses it to run Jehnert Doorboards and says its plenty loud. Its in a different Universe than the base system. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ighlight=82dsp It says bridging is possible if you want to up the power on some speaker locations. IN the thread above. The other unit that is kind of in the same ballpark is the Mosconi 120.4 DSP but its only 4 channels at 120 watts per channel. Not as flexible(less channels) but it has AB power. http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822366 http://www.monsteraudiodesign.co.uk/ Last edited by ctuna; 06-29-2015 at 01:55 PM..
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06-29-2015, 02:06 PM	#7
Beisofmarko Second Lieutenant 20 Rep 223 Posts Drives: e92 335i Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Finland iTrader: (0)	I think i made my mind Yeah, i was just reading that topic and i think i've made my mind to order it! Mad respect for your time and help! Will tell how all played out later, Thanks!
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06-29-2015, 03:54 PM	#8
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,100 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Is the 82dsp it? Is the 82dsp it?
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06-29-2015, 10:59 PM	#9
mathematics Captain 69 Rep 994 Posts Drives: 08 328i e93 alpine white Join Date: May 2009 Location: Queens, NY iTrader: (0)	PP82 has a ton of power. it seems to be very conservatively rated. we use a ton of them with jehnert flatline kits and they sound great! __________________ iPhone 6 Plus (iTunes library/iTunes radio/Waze, etc) to Airport Express via AirPlay. Toslink out of Airport Express to Helix P-Six DSP. PHD AF 1.C tweeters, PHD FB 4.1 midranges. Jehnert Door Cards and mid-bass'.
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06-30-2015, 06:57 PM	#13
6spdcoupe tends to get irritable 202 Rep 797 Posts Drives: 14 F15,18 M550,20 Highlander Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Central Jersey iTrader: (2)	The PnP harness is somewhat useless if going active. You will be chasing wires back and forth rather than saving time/energy using it. It is much more useful (and actually it's intent) for just upgrading/adding amplification and processing to an OE system. __________________ AC Schnitzer/Eibach/M Performance/RaceChip/Compustar/Drone/BimmerTech/FireTV/Helix/Dynaudio/Micro-Precision/Jehnert/Audiomobile
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06-30-2015, 06:58 PM	#14
6spdcoupe tends to get irritable 202 Rep 797 Posts Drives: 14 F15,18 M550,20 Highlander Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Central Jersey iTrader: (2)	You will also need to get or create a 'detune' file once installed as well. The PP82 does Not automatically flatten the source signal. __________________ AC Schnitzer/Eibach/M Performance/RaceChip/Compustar/Drone/BimmerTech/FireTV/Helix/Dynaudio/Micro-Precision/Jehnert/Audiomobile
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07-06-2015, 07:28 AM	#16
Beisofmarko Second Lieutenant 20 Rep 223 Posts Drives: e92 335i Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Finland iTrader: (0)	Connecting wires to PP82DSP Hi! a few more questions just to be sure. - I had a conversation with Don (6spdcoupe) who cleared many things for me, thanks! I'm still not sure how to make following: I was told that in order to connect Speakers into amp, i need to cut some wires from Main harness, wich goes to system connector, i'm going to run 3-way active front since i've been told this is best solution, so i'm gonna use channels A/B tweeters, C/D 4" mids and E/F underseat subs, Leaving the G/H unused for now. I'm using the Helix 2,2meters harness included in MatchPP82DSP box and Car specified ISO adapter (PP-AC13a) behind HU where helix harness connects. Box included a Connector with Flying Leads to Channels E/F/G/H, so i assume i just smolder New wires from underseats to those E/F flying leads and leave G/H wires hanging. What i wanna know, is what wires i need to Cut to connect tweeters into A/B and Mids into C/D? Then wich ends to solder into new speaker 2x2.5mm2 wires that i run from new speakers to amps? There are no A-D markings on System connector so i dont know what those channels are on the connector also. Technic told that since my car is 2006, i dont have to do jumpers or anything to underseats, just unplug oem connectors and then signal is directed to front speakers (Does this mean i have to use old speaker wiring on 4" doors to get this signal?) For now all that my installation is waiting is information how do i exactly connect the wires and Tweeter pods from dealer. Thanks in advance! Last edited by Beisofmarko; 07-06-2015 at 07:40 AM..
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07-06-2015, 11:42 AM	#17
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,100 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Another set of door wires is required for active. Another set of door wire is required for active. A set that runs all the way from the amp to tweeters or 4 inchers. If I was threading new wire I would use a thicker wire and route that to the 4 inchers for better power transfer (lower resistance) You will have to route them into the door for the amp. Don't see why you would have to cut anything with the right Harness. One that includes factory connectors . There is only one set of wires running to the door you need two for active most harnesses don't have this option if any do . Last edited by ctuna; 07-06-2015 at 11:52 AM..
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07-06-2015, 01:11 PM	#18
Beisofmarko Second Lieutenant 20 Rep 223 Posts Drives: e92 335i Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Finland iTrader: (0)	Wires that need to be cut With wires that need to be cut i meant the channels A/B/C/D Outputs which are behind system connector in pp82dsp main harness, far as i've understood it requires only front inputs and therefore i can cut those output wires from harness and smolder new wires into them which i could run straight into 4" mids, tweeters and so on? Tell me if im totally wrong? Anyway i had chat with Technic and after that i ordered harness from him Would still love to figure out the above since we are trying to install allmost same setup on different car with also Base system, except only different aftermarket speakers..
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07-06-2015, 01:54 PM	#19
Wongway Captain 28 Rep 609 Posts Drives: 328i xdrive Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Pittsburgh, PA iTrader: (0)	Well, you got the harness at least. With that, you shouldn't have to cut any wires. Technic will usually also supply a diagram of what wires go where as well. Basically, 4 wires from the left and 4 wires from the right, all go straight back to the amplifier. From the amplifier, you'll run the respective pair of wires back to the front left underseat, another pair to the front right underseat, a pair to the left door, another pair to the right door. Likely, if you're going active, you'll run a whole new pair to the front left tweeter, and another pair to the front right tweeter.
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07-06-2015, 11:01 PM	#20
ctuna Lieutenant General 1911 Rep 13,100 Posts Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Santa Cruz, Ca iTrader: (0)	Solder is spelled Solder unless there is a translation Solder is spelled Solder unless there is a translation problem . Smolder is what happens when a fire goes out. Best documentation on Base System with Technic harness follows http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1411521234 Base System Upgrades http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=445266 http://www.monsteraudiodesign.co.uk/ http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=634957 http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1003810 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=822366 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1#post16679904 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=581379 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=451941 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=540954 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ghlight=Dotech http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=495855 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=494299 http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...morel-jbl.html http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...1#post16679904 http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ht=amp+upgrade http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=550771 Last edited by ctuna; 07-06-2015 at 11:12 PM..
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07-23-2015, 12:25 PM	#22
Beisofmarko Second Lieutenant 20 Rep 223 Posts Drives: e92 335i Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Finland iTrader: (0)	any ideas Hey, one problem... probably nothing but i can't figure it out... I received today my technic harness and started installing speakers. Now i have installed tweeters and new 4" mids, i have them connected to Jehnert crossover, but where do i connect the crossover? Should i connect it to old thin wires that were plugged into old 4" or what? Cause i cant understand where to run new cables from Crossover.. i don't see a place where to connect them... Other than that, everything is okay and i know what to do... Thanks in advance!
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