[sg335]

Some results:
Early morning start up. 63 degrees air temp.
34c at start up.
46c two minutes warm up.
90c after three minutes of driving.
6-12 minutes of driving, oil temp still at 160f mark. Second gear, 3-4,000 rpm:
6 Minutes: Water = 96c, Oil = 170f
7 Minutes: 99c, 190f
8 Minutes: 98c, 200f
9 Minutes: 102c, 210f
10 Minutes: 100c, 220f
11 Minutes: 103c, 230f
12 Minutes: 102c, 240f
Shut car off.

Coolant and Oil temps come up quickly and stabilize at around 102c and 240f.

Next drive on freeway. 20 minutes:
3rd gear, 63mph, 4000rpm: 98c, 245f
4th gear, 70mph, 3400rpm: 96c, 245f
6th gear, 65mph, 2200rpm: 96 - 99c, 245f
Air conditioning On causes temps to rise 1-2 degrees on both systems.
Exit freeway, drive streets:
2nd gear, 2-3000rpm: 102-104c, 250f

Quick stop and return to freeway. Few blocks of hard driving and WOT on On-Ramp, 2nd and 3rd gear shift at 7,000rpm:
94c, 255f
Return to normal freeway speed and 4th gear:
87c, 250f.

It appears that the system is functioning as designed and within appropriate operating temps for the coolant, and within reason for the oil under these conditions. It is also obvious that the four levels of unique thermostat design and function are at work as described in the previously mentioned BMW document. The thermostat closes to various positions to warm the car up quickly for efficiency when it is cold, and opens fully when the ECU senses that the car is driven to its full potential. This would explain the sudden decrease in coolant temps after I drove the car hard for more than one isolated WOT experience when the engine was at its hottest. It is interesting to note that I had the lowest coolant temperature at the highest oil temperature (87c, 250f). And 98c, 200f, while driving slow down the boulevard when the car was cold.

The car is fine for the street under these conditions; normal driving with an occational fun run. Now for much more agressive driving, we will have to see. I will continue to log info under different conditions. Is it possible that the thermostat gets stuck or malfunctions at extended high rpm runs? I don't know. We will have to see what happens at the track. So as to not ruin my next track day, I will be running RedLine Water Wetter and oil which should bring the temps down a bit, so I will not have a stock baseline number to compare with, but better than nothing. The Nology software will come in handy if the car shuts down and will tell exactly where it happened as well as logging other important values.

[RMRC]

Originally Posted by sg335

Menu 07.00...

Interesting. In a search of the forums I found out how to unlock the menu and move through it but it says 07.00 is for coolant temp. I can't find the the number for oil temp. Could the oil temp be 15.00? Since my CarChip records the coolant temp I'm more concerned with monitoring oil temp real time while on track.

Also, how do you relock the menu?

Thanks for the info.

[sg335]

You found the thread! Good stuff. I didn't know it was hidden. 15 seems to be what the oil should be but doesn't show a number for me. After pulling out the key, the system will relock itself. I was referring to the coolant temps through menu 7 only. I read the oil temps from the guage. I am assuming that it is accurate within 5 degrees. The Nology software should give me live read out of the oil temps. I would leave menu 7 on for your track day and see where it goes real time. Will be interesting to see at exactly what temp the car goes into limp home mode and the warning light comes on.

[gloster]

Just another track day report:

Nelson Ledges (1.9 mile 13 turn road course). 10AM - 4PM. Temperate about 55 degrees, moderate humidity. Typically did 20 minutes on/20 minutes off all day. Revs usually between 4K and readline continuously. 335i MT, sport package, oil cooler (post stock oil cooler build).

In street driving, my car typically sits at 235. It never went over 260 all day.

[sg335]

Good to hear your car ran without trouble. Could be due to the low outside air temps.

Talked to the software company today. There is no OBDII sensor for the oil temp becuase it is not emission related. I did record a short street session and temps were consistant with oil at 250 and coolant at 200 to 216.

[sg335]

That says it all. Was at WSIR this week. Air temps never went over 77 degrees and a beautiful day. Car shut down on three seperate occations.

Everything appears to be fine as long as you don't drive in second gear at high RPMs. Our sessions are 30 minutes in length. This track really only needs 3rd and 4th gear around the whole track. 2nd gear gives more control around turn three and four, but causes you to run close to red line during that entire section and shift coming out of four. Third gear is actually OK through there and causes less wheel spin.

We used the Nology Software. I need to down load the results and study them for the entire session. AIT's never went over 135 degrees. Without using second gear, oil temps stayed around 280 degrees and coolant temps were around 102 - 110c depending on track location. After two laps using second gear in turns 2-4, the oil temps go to 300f and the coolant reads 114c in the display, and the car goes into limp home mode. This happened three times starting in turn five as you go up the hill. Power is cut substantially, and no matter how much throttle input you give, the car goes no where. It takes almost a full lap to cool things down before power comes back on completely. And this time, no warning light appeared in the display. After each incident, I stayed out of second gear for that session. I repeated this phenomenon on three seperate sessions.

I am now more confused as to the reasons why the car shuts down. If you remember the coolant temp chart, engine power reduction does not start until 118c or 244f. I never saw more than 114c or about 238 degrees. Oil temps also never showed on the guage to be more than 300f which is also under shut down parameters. Maybe it is not the coolant? I did not run the water wetter this time, but did run Redline 5w30. I think maybe it could be the oil temps and am thinking that the factory guage is not accurate. Maybe the guage is +- 10 - 20 degrees and the oil may actually be running 310+. Maybe it is the timing and the car runs lean in second gear at redline and the computer senses something to shut the car down. I did not track timing, just AIT, RPM and Coolant temp.

The saga continues...

[S4to335]

Bummer.

[jon@themshop]

Originally Posted by sg335

I am now more confused as to the reasons why the car shuts down. If you remember the coolant temp chart, engine power reduction does not start until 118c or 244f. I never saw more than 114c or about 238 degrees. Oil temps also never showed on the guage to be more than 300f which is also under shut down parameters. Maybe it is not the coolant? I did not run the water wetter this time, but did run Redline 5w30. I think maybe it could be the oil temps and am thinking that the factory guage is not accurate. Maybe the guage is +- 10 - 20 degrees and the oil may actually be running 310+. Maybe it is the timing and the car runs lean in second gear at redline and the computer senses something to shut the car down. I did not track timing, just AIT, RPM and Coolant temp.

The saga continues...

Do you have an oil cooler?

I think someone was saying that BMW might come out with software for proper calibration for the oil temp. gauge.

[RMRC]

Wow this is getting interesting. I’m now a little concerned about the Redline oil not protecting as well as the standard Castrol 5w30 BMW branded oil. The day my car shut down 5-6 times at Big Willow in 95-100 degree temps I never saw oil temps above 290 but coolant temps in excess of 242. And then there’s leftcoastman running Valvoline Synpower 5w40 AND V2 making all sorts of power and having no issues. I’m now totally confused but maintain we need a bigger rad and higher volume oil cooler. Perhaps Water Wetter would help at the margin…?

Edit: Did you have any kind of tune installed when the car shut down (SSTT, ProCede, Xede)? If so did you try taking it out for a session?

[S4to335]

I never shut down...and I am running the 5-60W Castrol BMW Motorsport stuff.

[jon@themshop]

Originally Posted by S4to335

I never shut down...and I am running the 5-60W Castrol BMW Motorsport stuff.

5w-60? Or do you mean the 10w-60 Castrol TWS?

[sg335]

Yes I have the oil cooler on the 6 speed manual.

Did not run the SSTT at all. Wanted to get a base line with stock. It was good that I did not run the water wetter (could not figure out how to drain the tank!). This way I isolated just the oil being the difference. And I guess there is no difference! Run the stock oil: It's free!! I should try the Castrol 5w60 to see if this makes a difference, Bbt theroy has it that the heavier oil should generate more heat. I will run the water wetter next time if someone can tell me how to change the fluid

This really sucks :sad0147:

[S4to335]

Correction...10-60W Motorsport Castrol synthetic

[sg335]

One thing to remember is that lap times have a lot to do with this as the car is pushed harder and generates more heat the faster you go, the longer you are on boost and the higher the rpm. I ran a 1:36.52 in the red/instructors group which is a very respectable time in a E90. There were several other E9x's there with mod'd suspension and R compounds in the Blue and Yellow group. Their times were 1:49 to 2:03. I am sure that if I drove 20 seconds slower, I would never experience shut down.

Maybe ambiant outside air temps have nothing to do with this shut down? Or it will happen at a much faster rate.

[RMRC]

I also used 2nd gear a lot in the 3-4 combo and down the hill into 5. Each time my car shut down it was in the 8-9 combo. I wonder if the 135 has a bigger rad and oil cooler? I know it's getting four piston front calipers so maybe they've upgraded the cooling as well.

At some point a 328i commuter and Cayman S for fun/track will be in order. My 74 yr-old father's C4S is incredibly competent on track as well.

[leftcoastman]

Two controversial thoughts:

1) E92 has different cooling ducts or something. The fascia is different, so maybe that has something to do with it.

2) PROcede, running richer all around, results in lower temps.

I don't think my valvoline synpower had anything to do with it. At an earlier event on the same oil, I was running 285 due to 85-90 degree ambients. At 70-80 degree ambients, I don't think I broke 280 oil.

I have never gotten heat induced limp, even with PROcede v 1.47 and 100-105 degree ambients. 290degree oil yes, heat-limp, no.

PROcede limp? Yes, up until my recent V2.02 map. I think shiv finally got it right. I'm scheduled for about ~12 days next year, so we'll see if that holds up.

[sg335]

I run out of gear and will bump off the limiter if I don't shift just after track out after turn four. I can't make it down the hill in second. I am at around 7000 rpm at the top of 4 before I lift to tuck into the apex. After the apex, I'm at redline.

So we now have a third posibility: Lean condition and timing being pulled. If the computer senses a constant lean condition after x seconds/minutes, there may be another ecu program that kicks in to shut down the motor before damage occurs that is entirely unrelated to engine oil and coolant temps. Interesting. Need to research this more.

[gloster]

Originally Posted by sg335

One thing to remember is that lap times have a lot to do with this as the car is pushed harder and generates more heat the faster you go, the longer you are on boost and the higher the rpm. I ran a 1:36.52 in the red/instructors group which is a very respectable time in a E90. There were several other E9x's there with mod'd suspension and R compounds in the Blue and Yellow group. Their times were 1:49 to 2:03. I am sure that if I drove 20 seconds slower, I would never experience shut down.

Maybe ambiant outside air temps have nothing to do with this shut down? Or it will happen at a much faster rate.

I would say average RPM's rather than lap times. The two don't correlate perfectly.

[sg335]

Originally Posted by gloster

I would say average RPM's rather than lap times. The two don't correlate perfectly.

I'm not a scientist, but do conclude that if two cars are running the same gears (3&4) around the same track, and one car is significantly quicker than the other around that track, than the only way to run a faster lap time is to run at higher rpms in those same gears. If I come out of turn 9 at 95mph and hit 130mph at the end of the straight vs another car coming out at 80mph and hitting 115 at the end of the straight, both in 4th gear, than lap times and rpms do correlate quite nicely as the faster car is turning more rpms. Don't want to create an unnecessary argument here, but just want to point out how the two are directly related. I do understand what you are saying though and did track the rpms in the software I was using.

[leftcoastman]

Originally Posted by sg335

I'm not a scientist, but do conclude that if two cars are running the same gears (3&4) around the same track, and one car is significantly quicker than the other around that track, than the only way to run a faster lap time is to run at higher rpms in those same gears. If I come out of turn 9 at 95mph and hit 130mph at the end of the straight vs another car coming out at 80mph and hitting 115 at the end of the straight, both in 4th gear, than lap times and rpms do correlate quite nicely as the faster car is turning more rpms. Don't want to create an unnecessary argument here, but just want to point out how the two are directly related. I do understand what you are saying though and did track the rpms in the software I was using.

I'm not a scientist either, but if the car is running the same rpms and gears around the track, one could be significantly faster if he's running the correct line and the other is running a crappy line.

Same speeds. One is just travelling much farther than he needs to.

[2e9x's]

sg...did you throw any codes?

[itsbrokeagain]

I was thinking about running the heavier 10-60 in my car but I get told by people at BMW or some other mechanics I know that I would snap the oil pump cuse of the thicker oil...

If that was so, then if I went from 10-30 in a 4cylinder big turboed japanese car to 10-60 or 20-50 in the summer and nothing ever happened, whats the big deal?

I actually like the 5-30 in the winter...warms up faster