[AWDBooSTIn90]

So im dropping the rear subframe in about 2-3 weeks. Im looking to order all the parts now so i have them and ill do it when im completely ready.

Car: '07 335i rwd. 6MT. Sport package. 120k miles! Just installed new oem sport struts/springs for now until i can invest in good coilovers. Old suspension was shot!


So far im going to order the following:
1)Whiteline poly yellow subframe bushings

2)whiteline poly yellow differential bushings

3)poly rear sway bar bushings?
-Still unsure if i should get poly for this. Don't want squeaking. What size would i need for stock e92 rear sport sway bar.

4)new endlinks


I will do an m3 control arm upgrade later on when i have it all back together. Front and rear. I will do that another time so i don't have to order so many parts at once.

I dont think i want to upgrade the rear sway bar to something thicker, just yet. But im open to opinions. I don't have an LSD and its not going to happen for a while. Maybe something in between stock and m3?

I really just want a solid handling car before i go crazy with anything else. The car is not my DD, but i dont want to sacrifice comfort too much. So no solid bushings i would think.

For example, my coilover choice would probablly be KW street comforts or something like the tc kline S/A or Ast4100 coilovers. Not something race oriented.

I want a fun street car that i will also use for autocross and occasional track days when i have the time. No drag strips though.

What else should i do when i have the rear subframe out?

Now i know i probably don't need to really completely remove it, but i want too lol. That way i can work on it in my garage for when its cold out. Then strip the subframe, take it all apart. Clean it, paint it. Then clean underneath the car. Possibly do a little undercoating. Not sure yet.

What are the opinions on undercoating above the subframe area. Will it cut down on noise alittle inside? Protect from future rust maybe?

I was also considering changing the driveshaft center support bushing/bearing and the front flex disc? Is it worth it?

I want to upgrade everything i can now and not have to order parts when i have it out if i don't have too. And never drop it again unless i decide to upgrade the rear sway bar.

Opinions/input/suggestions?

[chris82]

I'd use something harder than the yellows for subframe bushings. They don't seem to be hard enough from what I've read:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1055253

Look at post #11
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...1&postcount=11

my 2 cents

[AWDBooSTIn90]

Originally Posted by chris82

I'd use something harder than the yellows for subframe bushings. They don't seem to be hard enough from what I've read:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1055253

my 2 cents

Ok i will look into that. I dont want it to be too soft. The stock bushings bother me soo much!!

I was going to go with powerflex, but the whitelines i was looking at good great reviews for fitment/installation for ALOT cheaper. I guess ill have to go with powerflex purple afterall. I dont think whiteline makes a stiffer version. Hmm what to do.

Im guessing the whiteline yellows are still stiffer than m3 bushings or stock bushings with poly inserts?

[chris82]

Originally Posted by AWDBooSTIn90

Ok i will look into that. I dont want it to be too soft. The stock bushings bother me soo much!!

I was going to go with powerflex, but the whitelines i was looking at good great reviews for fitment/installation for ALOT cheaper. I guess ill have to go with powerflex purple afterall. I dont think whiteline makes a stiffer version. Hmm what to do.

Im guessing the whiteline yellows are still stiffer than m3 bushings or stock bushings with poly inserts?

I couldn't tell ya, just thought I'd throw a little more info towards you

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by AWDBooSTIn90

Ok i will look into that. I dont want it to be too soft. The stock bushings bother me soo much!!

I was going to go with powerflex, but the whitelines i was looking at good great reviews for fitment/installation for ALOT cheaper. I guess ill have to go with powerflex purple afterall. I dont think whiteline makes a stiffer version. Hmm what to do.

Im guessing the whiteline yellows are still stiffer than m3 bushings or stock bushings with poly inserts?

I have the whiteline bushings. Seems pretty stiff to me after driving on it for the past year.

[David1]

I have the whitline yellow inserts and just those made a big difference.

[mob17]

I will be going for the solid aluminum sf bushes from turner motorsport.

I read a post about the new M3/M4 using no bushes for the subframe, its literally bolted on. So doesn't concern me as much that they will be solid.

[AWDBooSTIn90]

Originally Posted by mob17

I will be going for the solid aluminum sf bushes from turner motorsport.

I read a post about the new M3/M4 using no bushes for the subframe, its literally bolted on. So doesn't concern me as much that they will be solid.

I saw that also. It makes sense. As long as everything else has some sort of flex in it. Then the subframe just becomes part of the body.

I think some people are getting the solid delrin bushings, because i guess it just alittle better than a solid aluminum bushing. Ive never actually seen delrin in person but it seems like a near-solid poly type of bushing. So maybe thats literally the best of both of worlds.

I would really love to drive in a car with delrin/aluminim or solid aluminum subframe bushings with stiff poly diff bushings and m3 arm. It would probably be a pretty solid setup with minimum tradeoff for nvh.

Is $400 the cheapest way to go solid aluminum or delrin/aluminum?

Am i wrong to say the turner motorsport delrin/aluminum bushings are near solid with a small area to absorb vibration(delrin)?

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by AWDBooSTIn90

I saw that also. It makes sense. As long as everything else has some sort of flex in it. Then the subframe just becomes part of the body.

I think some people are getting the solid delrin bushings, because i guess it just alittle better than a solid aluminum bushing. Ive never actually seen delrin in person but it seems like a near-solid poly type of bushing. So maybe thats literally the best of both of worlds.

I would really love to drive in a car with delrin/aluminim or solid aluminum subframe bushings with stiff poly diff bushings and m3 arm. It would probably be a pretty solid setup with minimum tradeoff for nvh.

Is $400 the cheapest way to go solid aluminum or delrin/aluminum?

Am i wrong to say the turner motorsport delrin/aluminum bushings are near solid with a small area to absorb vibration(delrin)?

Delrin are essentially hard solid plastics. The difference in NVH is probably unnoticeable comparing to solid aluminum. I remember they all costs the same from turner (pretty $$$, that's why I went with the whitelines stuff), so just go with aluminum since it is a stronger material.

I believe one of reasons they sell delrin mounts is because certain racing series don't allow solid metal bushings.

[AWDBooSTIn90]

So if been looking into and alot of people with e90 m3s and a few guys with 335s have solid aluminum subframe bushings and the delrin/aluminum diff bushings. So fsr the only downside i see to this is a slight gear whine from the differential.

Someone made a vid showing the noise and its def noticeable cruising with the windows shut and radio off. Idk how i feel abt that. It kinda seems like it would get annoying.

There was one guy that installed aluminum sub and powerflex purple diff bushings. Diff whine was still there just as pronounced. So it doesn't even seem worth using poly. Maybe yellow poly bushings would help enough to make it pretty much silent?

Like someone stated the best of both worlds is prob the bmw group n bushings. Theyre a very stiff rubber it seems like. Only problem is the crazy price. $200ea ($800 a set). Way too much.

[AWDBooSTIn90]

Ordered the m3 front upper/lower control arms a few days ago. So ill focus on the front for right now and do the back after i get everything else installed. I was also considering changing my inner/outer tie rods to possibly tighten up the steering with new parts. I will have to get an alignment anyway so now might be a good time..

Also should i get an m3 front sway bar? Aftermarket?

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by AWDBooSTIn90

Ordered the m3 front upper/lower control arms a few days ago. So ill focus on the front for right now and do the back after i get everything else installed. I was also considering changing my inner/outer tie rods to possibly tighten up the steering with new parts. I will have to get an alignment anyway so now might be a good time..

Also should i get an m3 front sway bar? Aftermarket?

Go with E92 or E93(slightly stiffer) M3 bars. With my current setup, bmw performance spring and E93 M3 bar, I feel like any stiffer of a front sway bar is actually going to decrease overall lateral grips.

Most aftermarket ones are there only to decrease body roll and giving the go car like handling, but the truth is, unless you are running race slick, you are most likely to be overloading those tires due to too rapid of weight transfer during initial turn in.

[AWDBooSTIn90]

Ok so im going to go with the e92 m3 front sway bar. Should i order from tischer? Or should i try and find a used sway bar and just buy new bushings?

[solishe]

Originally Posted by AWDBooSTIn90

Ok so im going to go with the e92 m3 front sway bar. Should i order from tischer? Or should i try and find a used sway bar and just buy new bushings?

For the rear bar, perhaps go either E93 15mm bar or Dinan 15.9mm bar. I put on M3, lost cornering grip, downgraded to E93 (it's also the xi rear bar I believe). Just my .02..if you are dropping the rear subframe, might as well get the bar done now so you don't have to do it later...

Oh and def try and get used deal on bars...some folks even sell the bushings and brackets in good condition...

[DrRobert]

The M3 front bar and control arms will change the way your steering feels a lot IME, much tighter response without oversteering. You will lose some traction in the drive wheels if you add a stiffer rear sway bar, especially without an LSD. The rear guide rods will add some lateral stability to the rear end without sacrificing traction.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by DrRobert

The M3 front bar and control arms will change the way your steering feels a lot IME, much tighter response without oversteering. You will lose some traction in the drive wheels if you add a stiffer rear sway bar, especially without an LSD. The rear guide rods will add some lateral stability to the rear end without sacrificing traction.

+1 a stiffer rear bar is really not necessary on this platform, especially with all the torque that N54 can make, you gonna want as much rear traction as you can get. I track mine with stock rear bar, and never once I feel like I need a stiffer one.

[AWDBooSTIn90]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

+1 a stiffer rear bar is really not necessary on this platform, especially with all the torque that N54 can make, you gonna want as much rear traction as you can get. I track mine with stock rear bar, and never once I feel like I need a stiffer one.

Ive done ALOT of reading on the rear sway bar for the 335i. I dont think i want to change it for anything thicker right now. Ill get new bushings and it will prob stiffen it up very slightly back to new and will prob be all i need for right now.

Im going to start looking for the m3 front bar soon.

Yea i cant wait to get the m3 front arms on. I just want to do everything in the front at once and get it aligned properly.

M3 rear arms def in the future lol.

Ive also been looking into the m3 rear lower shock arm. Is that an upgrade? I know the lower shock mount is a much better design but is it really worth the $ and effort?

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by AWDBooSTIn90

Ive done ALOT of reading on the rear sway bar for the 335i. I dont think i want to change it for anything thicker right now. Ill get new bushings and it will prob stiffen it up very slightly back to new and will prob be all i need for right now.

Im going to start looking for the m3 front bar soon.

Yea i cant wait to get the m3 front arms on. I just want to do everything in the front at once and get it aligned properly.

M3 rear arms def in the future lol.

Ive also been looking into the m3 rear lower shock arm. Is that an upgrade? I know the lower shock mount is a much better design but is it really worth the $ and effort?

Hard to say, but I am switching the lower camber arm (or lower shock arm as you call it, lol) too in a few weeks and there must be a reason why M cars uses the rod bearing design instead of the rubber seat on our non-M cars.

But my guess is that unless you are going with much stiffer rear spring rate (+500-600lb/in), it probably isn't worth the trouble.

[StealYourFace]

FCP Euro sells a couple different refresh kits for the rear at great prices.

The 5 link rear is one of the reasons these cars are such a treat to drive, but there's a ton of bushings back there that get pretty ugly after a while.

[CALWATERBOY]

Originally Posted by AWDBooSTIn90

Ive also been looking into the m3 rear lower shock arm. Is that an upgrade? I know the lower shock mount is a much better design but is it really worth the $ and effort?

You must mean the camber arms:



Part of Ground Control's Street/School kit, not difficult to install; a leg up from stock. Watch your leveling arm on driver's side....scroll down to it....

[AWDBooSTIn90]

Originally Posted by StealYourFace

FCP Euro sells a couple different refresh kits for the rear at great prices.

The 5 link rear is one of the reasons these cars are such a treat to drive, but there's a ton of bushings back there that get pretty ugly after a while.

Never heard of FCP. Will have to check it out. Thanks!

Originally Posted by CALWATERBOY

You must mean the camber arms:



Part of Ground Control's Street/School kit, not difficult to install; a leg up from stock. Watch your leveling arm on driver's side....scroll down to it....

Yea thats what i meant just couldnt think of the right name .

I actually read your whole thread a while ago after i found it searching for suspension setups. Its amazing read with LOTS of good infor. It was my inspiration to focus on suspension first lol.

I was impressed with my 335i when i got it, but never satisfied with the handling.

My previous car a 3000gt vr4 had ECS (electronically controlled suspension) which is basically electrically controlled dampers (EDC). So when i put it in sport mode it handled so nice and tight. I loved it. In tour mode "comfort" it handled decent, but rode real smooth. So i consider my stock 335i with new oem sport struts to be the comfort mode of that car.

I cant live with it like that lol. IMHO tight handling and steering is what makes a car fun to drive. If i didn't care about that i would of bought a big heavy v8 lol. (M3 doesn apply tho) lol

On a side not. Has anyone put the EDC system from the M3 into a 335i? I love the electronically controller damping. It really is the best of both worlds. I found myself using it a lot more than i thought i would to be honest.

As far the m3 camber arms. Say i had koni yellows on both setups. One with 335i rear camber arms and one with m3 camber arms. Would i notice a big difference? Is really worth the 500-600 for the arms alone plus the extra cost of buying the m3 specific rear shock to go with it? I always wondered if eliminating the rubber rear lower shock mount would make a noticeable difference. I would assume so, but its not really a "cheap" mod if it isn't very effective.

While were on this topic. How about just using the adapters that turner sells? It turns the 335i camber arm into an m3 style through-hole connection for the rear lower shock mount.

[shirtpants_]

Originally Posted by AWDBooSTIn90

Never heard of FCP. Will have to check it out. Thanks!



Yea thats what i meant just couldnt think of the right name .

As far the m3 camber arms. Say i had koni yellows on both setups. One with 335i rear camber arms and one with m3 camber arms. Would i notice a big difference? Is really worth the 500-600 for the arms alone plus the extra cost of buying the m3 specific rear shock to go with it? I always wondered if eliminating the rubber rear lower shock mount would make a noticeable difference. I would assume so, but its not really a "cheap" mod if it isn't very effective.

While were on this topic. How about just using the adapters that turner sells? It turns the 335i camber arm into an m3 style through-hole connection for the rear lower shock mount.

Bumping an old thread:
Been wondering this as well. Is the m3 rear camber/control arm really worth doing? Turner's solid adapter seems to be a cheaper alternative that wouldn't require a different rear shock that's specific to the m3...
Link: http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-20...m-e82-e9x.aspx