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Water separation
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12-02-2012, 06:38 PM | #1 |
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Water separation
Ok- I was going to make fun of 335dM for making stupid modifications. But he may well be onto something valid. After some poking around, it seems like the 335d is the only diesel in the US market without a diesel water separator. Is BMW relying upon a hydrosorb filter element or is BMW just pumping the water through the injection system because they want to make the US cars "maintenance free" at the risk of expensive repairs?
And before one is tempted to reply "this is not a problem because there is no water in the US diesel supply" one should note that every other diesel I have actually captures water in a separator and requires draining somewhat often. So why does every diesel manufacturer in the US market but BMW supply a water separator? Does BMW utilize a water-absorbing filtration element to protect the injection system or should owners be following the lead of 335dM and looking for an aftermarket system? -Michael |
12-03-2012, 02:42 PM | #4 | |
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Filtration is key to keep engines healthy! Just because it doesn't give more hp doesn't mean it's stupid! Watch out for what you say !!!! |
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12-03-2012, 03:30 PM | #5 |
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Lol. I've been waiting for that. Personally I wish that our cars were capable of water separation in their stock form. I would imagine that the top reasons for excluding the technology were...
1. Cost 2. Space 3. BMWs are well-documented to defy the laws of physics and chemistry. When filling a BMW with diesel, water is physically incapable of being carried by the fuel. Similarly, transmission fluid can not degrade when the transmission in which it resides is installed into a BMW. 4. Cost 5. Weight dM, do you happen to know what (if anything) our vehicle has to protect against water in the fuel? Does the filter also act as some sort of dryer or is it simply number 3 kicking in? |
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12-03-2012, 03:48 PM | #6 |
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First i would have to say that water can ( on the very longterm) damage our injectors.
I asked the dealer to change oil in tranny today and they answered NO! If i were to change my oil under warranty, i would loose my warranty on the tranny itself! WTF BMW??? |
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12-03-2012, 05:23 PM | #7 | |
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But back to the topic, the issue as I understand it is that of corrosion and the possibility of flashing. I have only attempted seconds of research beyond reading everyone's posts, but the part for our fuel filter seems to be labelled "fuel strainer with heating", which leads me to believe that it does not somehow "dry" the fuel. Anyone know? |
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12-03-2012, 05:38 PM | #8 | ||
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12-03-2012, 06:38 PM | #9 | |
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But your water separation idea may be good. What did you use for a water separator? What did it install cost? Where is it located? -Michael |
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12-03-2012, 06:51 PM | #10 | |
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Thanks for the official excerpt. Obviously I have some reading to do If we were to select an alternative filter or an additional filter as an in-line secondary, around what parameters would it be selected? I believe that there is a delta-p sensor in our fuel system which I assume is to identify a clogged/clogging filter. Does anyone know the stock differential pressures and flow rates so that the alternative filter selected can be specified accordingly? Are there other important numbers about which I am forgetting? |
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12-05-2012, 10:12 AM | #11 |
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I'm going to ping TIDwyse at the other forum, and see if he'll participate in this thread. I'm pretty sure there are a few people that have done this, but I'm drawing a blank right now. TDI has done several different things with d's, so I think his perspective will be very helpful.
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12-05-2012, 01:47 PM | #12 |
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Previous thread where filtration was discussed with lots of good info:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=461450 And official specs for our d's fuel filter: http://www.bmwtradeparts.co.uk/PDF/W...uelFilters.pdf It's actually spec'd pretty good, and also separates water (although you can't drain the water, so if you get a big slug of water I'm guessing bad things would happen, as evident from the example pointed to in the first link). To be fair, I've owned 6 diesel vehicles, all but the 335d had water separators, but I've never found more than a drop of water in any of them. |
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12-05-2012, 05:25 PM | #13 |
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Old Jetta Diesel and Water Separator
I had a 1986 Jetta Diesel (not turbo) that I finally sold in 2006 with around 300K miles. It came with a little plastic bag that you were supposed to use periodically to drain off the water. Sorry for lack of details because it was one thing I did not keep records on, but I do remember having water in that bag every time I did the exercise. I was never particular about where I bought diesel fuel. Over the life of the car I averaged 44.5 mpg.
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01-04-2013, 12:52 PM | #15 |
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This was recently linked in a thread over at tdiclub regarding all the HPFP failures with the CP4 version of the pump they have (I'm sooooooo glad our vehicles still use the CP3 version). Found it interesting . . . and frightening.
http://www.fluidcare.be/site/wp-cont...ge%20Tanks.pdf |
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01-05-2013, 07:03 PM | #16 |
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Thanks, tdi. Definitely worth the read.
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01-05-2013, 08:43 PM | #17 |
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Diesel Fuel and Water Contamination
This almost makes you want to fill up a storage container and treat the fuel at home before you introduce it to your vehicle. This may be enough to cause me to pick my fill up locations more carefully than I have been doing for the last 27 years. At least my old Jetta did separate out the water.
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Previous BMWs: 1971 BMW 2002, 1973 BMW R75/5, and 2011 BMW 335d Previous Other Vehicles: '67 Cougar, '70 911e, '86 Jetta Diesel, '05 and '12 Foresters, et al. |
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01-06-2013, 09:40 PM | #18 |
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If someone was wanting to try this, there's actually enough room for a water/methanol pump and a water separating/drainable secondary fuel filter in this location (preferably 2 or 5um rated).
The Stanadyne filters are rated at ~95% water filtering capability. If the OEM is ~93% that would make the combination somewhere in the 99.65% range ... maybe. http://www.stanadyne.com/docs/pubf/F...%20%286%29.pdf |
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01-07-2013, 09:59 AM | #19 | |
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1) Shell 2) Chevron 3) BP 4) Exxon/Mobile In other words, stay w/the name brand stations - they typically maintain higher QC standards. I fill up with Shell 99% of the time. The times I fill up w/Exxon/Mobile my MPG's always seem to drop a point or so perhaps indicating a lower cetane fuel. |
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01-07-2013, 10:54 AM | #20 | |
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01-07-2013, 04:56 PM | #21 | |
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Yeah, this is something that could cause warranty issues. My old Duramax and my present Cummins engines (Ram 2500 and Jeep Wrangler conversion) had/have the Stanadyne FM100 systems on them as well. Both the local chevy and dodge dealerships were OK with them being on there, although I didn't have any warranty issues required to press the issue. Here's the gauge setup in the cab for viewing operating conditions on the water/meth injection and the important engine parameters (Boost, EGT's, Engine Torque, Coolant temp, EGR, Throttle). The Torque App on the Android is my favorite app of all time. |
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03-09-2017, 01:35 PM | #22 |
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Doesn't this look similar to the FP100 setup? It's a WIX 24911 assembly for $44.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/182269026823 Replacement 5 micron filters are only $21 (WIX 33911) I may give it a try. |
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