[fredcase]

Pics of the sheared lugs and rotor might help bring some insight. I just ordered some ecs 12mm and 15mm and am worried now. Also. How much power are you putting down?

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by Chrisruf911

this was probably the reason. I've seen most 10mm spacers not sit flush against the hub and leave a gap essentially taking away all the friction force that holds the wheel on. As a matter of fact I do know the ecs ones sometimes do not fit. Bms spacers do. E90/e92s do not like most 10mm spacers. I always check them with a feeler gauge after the wheel is torqued.

Unless the spacers are really undersized comparing either the hub on the rotor side or the hub from the wheel side, it shouldn't really matter.

On a lot of wheels, the mounting surface on the back of the wheels are hollowed out to save unsprung weight, reducing a lot of the contact surface between the wheel and rotor hub. Yet it doesn't pose a mechanical weakness since the wheels are held down by the lugs, and their resistance to shear stress.

The half half shafts will twist and break before shearing all 5 properly torqued and intact wheel lugs by a long shot... as it is subjected to a lot more torsional force (smaller diameter) than wheel lugs (sitting a lot further away from the hub center than widest part of the half shaft).

[Chrisruf911]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

Unless the spacers are really undersized comparing either the hub on the rotor side or the hub from the wheel side, it shouldn't really matter.

On a lot of wheels, the mounting surface on the back of the wheels are hollowed out to save unsprung weight, reducing a lot of the contact surface between the wheel and rotor hub. Yet it doesn't pose a mechanical weakness since the wheels are held down by the lugs, and their resistance to shear stress.

The half half shafts will twist and break before shearing all 5 properly torqued and intact wheel lugs by a long shot... as it is subjected to a lot more torsional force (smaller diameter) than wheel lugs (sitting a lot further away from the hub center than widest part of the half shaft).

In the case I'm speaking of its not a matter of the spacer being smaller as in diameter, it's a matter of the spacer mounting face not touching the rotor hat. Usually the gap is about 1/2mm. I'm no engineer but I can say for certain it is unsafe. Not to mention the bolts can start to loosen if the hub centric part of the wheel or spacer starts to become misshapen.

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by Chrisruf911

In the case I'm speaking of its not a matter of the spacer being smaller as in diameter, it's a matter of the spacer mounting face not touching the rotor hat. Usually the gap is about 1/2mm. I'm no engineer but I can say for certain it is unsafe. Not to mention the bolts can start to loosen if the hub centric part of the wheel or spacer starts to become misshapen.

Gotcha, yeah, that's not good for sure if there is a gap between the hub and spacer... That's really poor machining if thats the case.

I still think RE has some of the best design and quality. That's what I used when I still have my stock wheels back in the days.

http://www.rogueengineering.com/rogue/WH/WSPACER.html

[J2S2M]

I had 75mm Macht Schnell stud kit + P.Kics R40 lugs on my e90 and never had a single issue.

OP, quality stud kits are perfectly safe/fine to use as long as they're properly installed. I just wouldn't use any ebay/generic ones.

[Cloud9blue]

OP, I wouldn't place the blame on ECS right away. I have had lug felling out while driving even after I properly tightened with a torque wrench at 88lb-ft as BMW stated in their manual.

That's why it is always a good idea to double check on them after the first 100 or so miles post installation, and especially before a track day (most organizations explicitly ask their driver to check the wheel lugs before any high performance driving events).

Have a look at the other wheel and its spacer when I get the chance. If it is really some issues with the ECS parts, they should really cover the damage and repair costs.

[Douche]

I said it before and I'll say it again:

That's the price you pay when you just want the car to look "cool".

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Cloud9blue

If you take your wheels on and off on a monthly basis, it might be a good idea to get new lugs every two years or so. Metal fatigues over time...

But I suspect there is something funky going on with the spacers and extended wheel lugs you got, assuming everything was properly torqued down with a torque wrench not an impact gun like most dealers and tire shops do...

Studs offer no advantage when it comes to mechanical strength to lugs when properly torqued. So if it is an ill fitting spacer that is causing the issue, studs won't help anything.

LOL. I've rotated my tires about every 6,000 miles for the last 8 years and 10 months, so that's about 46 times. I torque my lug bolts to 90 lb./ft. with a 1/2-drive torque wrench. I remove and install them with an air gun. All the lugs have been installed in the same hub every time. You can't be serious, changing out lug bolts every 2 years,

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

LOL. I've rotated my tires about every 6,000 miles for the last 8 years and 10 months, so that's about 46 times. I torque my lug bolts to 90 lb./ft. with a 1/2-drive torque wrench. I remove and install them with an air gun. All the lugs have been installed in the same hub every time. You can't be serious, changing out lug bolts every 2 years,

You really find that recommendation that surprising? Any vendor/builder/race shop will tell you the same thing: lug bolts/nuts, wheels, etc. are all wear items and shouldn't be expected to last the life of the car; especially when racing.

OP: are you sure you were sold the correct spec bolts (in terms of length, thread pitch, etc.)? The bolts could have very well just been under-torqued, but anything is possible.

Here's what happens when you install 1.25 pitch nuts instead of the correct 1.50 pitch version for instance:

[techmaster05]

thanks for all the input guys. i didnt really make this clear but this was on my e46 m3. i was at the track to see what i can run stock since i will be gping maxpsi stage 2 turbo soon. i cant give anu details on the ecstuning bolts with the spacer. the only info i have is whats listed in there description.

i ended up ordering 75mm studs for the front and 90mm studs for the rear from turner motorsports. states its heat treat aircraft great alloy steel. not sure what the ecs ones are made of. i also got the 12.5mm spacers from turner this time around. the wheels i have are the same onea in my sig on the e90. velgen vmb5 19x10.5 in the rear with 285 tires.

i will take some better pics of the bolts and the spacer

[Cloud9blue]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

LOL. I've rotated my tires about every 6,000 miles for the last 8 years and 10 months, so that's about 46 times. I torque my lug bolts to 90 lb./ft. with a 1/2-drive torque wrench. I remove and install them with an air gun. All the lugs have been installed in the same hub every time. You can't be serious, changing out lug bolts every 2 years,

lugs cost a few bucks each... at around $100 for a full set, it is a cheap insurance against losing a wheel at the track and risk thousands of dollar of damage. i think the math is pretty clear in this case...

[techmaster05]

well i was able to get under the car and to my surprise the driver side lower control arm got bent to all hell when getting unto the tow truck. now i gotta replace those to and boy its gonna be a pain in the ass

[monkeybingo]

ouch.. do you have pics of the damaged nuts?

[Douche]

Originally Posted by monkeybingo

ouch.. do you have pics of the damaged nuts?

Check redtube.com

[techmaster05]

alright so i got some pics for you. looking at the bolts now, something was def. not right. You can see that some of the bolts got bent slightly. The lower control arm got bent while the car getting dragged onto the bed. The control arm was bent on the driver side, the wheel issue happened on the pass side.

[Douche]

Seems time for a new disclaimer at ECS site on this product: "attention: this product is intended for the stance/poser scene, and was not built with the materials required to withstand forces OE bolts were designed to withstand. Drive slow baby, drive slow."

[gtaccord]

Looks like they were loose to me.

[justpete]

That's a lot of rust on the rotor hat and doesn't show much evidence of the spacer being in hard contact with it, what does the inboard side of the spacers look like?

[justpete]

And what's the height of the hub above the rotor hat?

[supergoat]

I also agree they look like they were loose.

I'm no wheel scientist though.

[techmaster05]

Originally Posted by justpete

That's a lot of rust on the rotor hat and doesn't show much evidence of the spacer being in hard contact with it, what does the inboard side of the spacers look like?

ill snap i side pic of the spacer later when i get time as these lower control arms are tough to get out. the spacers with wheels have only been on the car for id say probably a little over a month. my guess is that they became loose