e93, DSC on, AC on, "D" mode and ...

e.n335 · 05-27-2008, 04:31 PM

the 360 HP ( crank ) Noelle tune. Slight wheel spin in 2nd gear and DSC works permanently ( 275 tyres rear ).

At the beginning I had a problem with idling ( slight hiccups ). What helped with piggybacks seems to help with ECU flashes as well: disconnect the battery for 1 hour and "relearn". The car pulls like crazy, I've not seen this with all previous tunings I used/tested before. I see up to 13.8psi boost ( hold ) and 14.5psi ( spike ), tapering down to 9.5psi at 6500rpm. Oil temps are 10 degF lower than before. I'm impressed and have to dyno my car now. Currently only other mods are Forge DV's.

Wow

e90AW335i · 05-27-2008, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

the 360 HP ( crank ) Noelle tune. Slight wheel spin in 2nd gear and DSC works permanently ( 275 tyres rear ).

At the beginning I had a problem with idling ( slight hiccups ). What helped with piggybacks seems to help with ECU flashes as well: disconnect the battery for 1 hour and "relearn". The car pulls like crazy, I've not seen this with all previous tunings I used/tested before. I see up to 13.8psi boost ( hold ) and 14.5psi ( spike ), tapering down to 9.5psi at 6500rpm. Oil temps are 10 degF lower than before. I'm impressed and have to dyno my car now. Currently only other mods are Forge DV's.

Wow

With that boost you should probably see more than 360 crank hp....

Regardless, congrats on finding the right tune for you Eugen...

Driver72 · 05-27-2008, 06:52 PM

is this a tune piggyback or ecu reflash?

e.n335 · 05-27-2008, 09:27 PM

Reflash via OBDII.

dmboone25 · 05-27-2008, 09:40 PM

I am not familiar with this tune--is it new?

kptaylor · 05-27-2008, 10:07 PM

Note that Eugen is in Switzerland...

King335i · 05-27-2008, 10:44 PM

So is it unlikely that we'll be able to get this tune here in the states?

armyav8tor · 05-27-2008, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e.n335

the 360 HP ( crank ) Noelle tune. Slight wheel spin in 2nd gear and DSC works permanently ( 275 tyres rear ).

At the beginning I had a problem with idling ( slight hiccups ). What helped with piggybacks seems to help with ECU flashes as well: disconnect the battery for 1 hour and "relearn". The car pulls like crazy, I've not seen this with all previous tunings I used/tested before. I see up to 13.8psi boost ( hold ) and 14.5psi ( spike ), tapering down to 9.5psi at 6500rpm. Oil temps are 10 degF lower than before. I'm impressed and have to dyno my car now. Currently only other mods are Forge DV's.

Wow

What do you mean the DSC works permanently. DSC on is the default setting, to turn DTC on you push the button once, to turn DSC off you hold the button for 3-5 secs. Did you mean the DTC is permanently on?

e.n335 · 05-28-2008, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armyav8tor

What do you mean the DSC works permanently. DSC on is the default setting, to turn DTC on you push the button once, to turn DSC off you hold the button for 3-5 secs. Did you mean the DTC is permanently on?

DSC in in the default setting ( on ) and the yellow lamp is blinking for a long period of time, so you see it working. Of course, this is on WOT.

Sparky66 · 05-28-2008, 02:55 AM

Time for a LSD . Quaife maybe ????
I can't understand how people can start pushing close to 400hp only to rely on DSC/DTC which all but strips your car of any performance because all it is doing is retarding your engine and individually braking the sliding /spinning wheel. Secondly, if you decide to turn off DTC/DSC, all you are really doing is relying on one wheel to carry the load and get the car to hook up properly.

.

e.n335 · 05-28-2008, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky66

Time for a LSD . Quaife maybe ????
I can't understand how people can start pushing close to 400hp and rely on one wheel to carry the load and get the car to hook up properly.

.

Well, I did not read only positive feedback about the Quaife ... My car has already this electronic LSD, so I'm not sure about the need / improvement.

Sparky66 · 05-28-2008, 03:15 AM

You might want to re-read my post above. Electronic LSD

aka... DSC/DTC is nothing more than an engine/wheel brake which reduces and subdues any acceleration to stop you having any fun.
Nothing wrong with Quaife here ( any negative feedback you may have heard was that if one of the rear wheels leaves the road surface, the differential becomes a open wheeler just as a torsen style diff would.
With the Quaife, control and grip of the car at its' extreme, is at a totally another level and very, very noticeable - BMW made a huge mistake not fitting LSD's to the 335's.

.

armyav8tor · 05-28-2008, 03:37 AM

An "electronic" LSD will never match a Quaife LSD. DTC is BMW's version of an electronic LSD. DTC stands for Dynamic Traction Control and it is turned on by pushing the DSC button once. What DTC does is it allows for more yaw movements before it retards the engine and apply brakes. In addition, the electronic LSD portion of DTC is by apply brake to the tire without traction therefore transfering that power to the tire with traction. For example, in a hard left turn w/ large amount of throttle applied, the inside tire, or the left rear tire will spin all day long, with DTC, it will apply brake to the left rear tire therefore causing the open diff to transfer power to the tire with traction which will be the rear right tire. A Quaife LSD does this mechanically, without apply brakes. For normal to spirited driving DTC is just fine, but if you want to go for lap times, the Quaife is far superior. DSC stands for Dynamic Stability Control and is always active by default. It explains it pretty well in the owner's manual.

e.n335 · 05-28-2008, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparky66

You might want to re-read my post above. Electronic LSD

aka... DSC/DTC is nothing more than an engine/wheel brake which reduces and subdues any acceleration to stop you having any fun.
Nothing wrong with Quaife here ( any negative feedback you may have heard was that if one of the rear wheels leaves the road surface, the differential becomes a open wheeler just as a torsen style diff would.
With the Quaife, control and grip of the car at its' extreme, is at a totally another level and very, very noticeable - BMW made a huge mistake not fitting LSD's to the 335's.

Quote:

Originally Posted by armyav8tor

An "electronic" LSD will never match a Quaife LSD. DTC is BMW's version of an electronic LSD. DTC stands for Dynamic Traction Control and it is turned on by pushing the DSC button once. What DTC does is it allows for more yaw movements before it retards the engine and apply brakes. In addition, the electronic LSD portion of DTC is by apply brake to the tire without traction therefore transfering that power to the tire with traction. For example, in a hard left turn w/ large amount of throttle applied, the inside tire, or the left rear tire will spin all day long, with DTC, it will apply brake to the left rear tire therefore causing the open diff to transfer power to the tire with traction which will be the rear right tire. A Quaife LSD does this mechanically, without apply brakes. For normal to spirited driving DTC is just fine, but if you want to go for lap times, the Quaife is far superior. DSC stands for Dynamic Stability Control and is always active by default. It explains it pretty well in the owner's manual.

Thank you for your feedback. The next thing I will do is to dyno the car when I will be back in Switzerland. After that I will see what will be next

.

Cheers,
Eugen

stressdoc · 05-28-2008, 08:51 AM

+1 on the LSD, although it really depends what sort of driving you do. If you drive hard, to the point where the wheels are weighted differently, then a LSD becomes most advantageous. On the other hand, for high speed autobahn touring it is not of much use. If you live in the countryside with winding up and down roads, and are getting rear wheel spin, and find that it is difficult to make smooth power oversteer transitions, then you will love a LSD. I love to steer with the throttle, and an open differential really mucks with that, especially with the relatively soft dampening on the OEM sports package.

kptaylor · 05-28-2008, 09:43 AM

Funny "info" from someone who says to read the manual...

DTC and DSC are by default always on. To turn off DTC you push the button once. The DTC symbol should show in your dash display. To turn off DSC, too, you hold the button for a few seconds.

CarveOut · 05-28-2008, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kptaylor

Funny "info" from someone who says to read the manual...

DTC and DSC are by default always on. To turn off DTC you push the button once. The DTC symbol should show in your dash display. To turn off DSC, too, you hold the button for a few seconds.

Funny info!?!?

DTC is always OFF and DSC is always ON.
Pushing the button once enables the DTC which is shown in the display.

armyav8tor · 05-28-2008, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kptaylor

Funny "info" from someone who says to read the manual...

DTC and DSC are by default always on. To turn off DTC you push the button once. The DTC symbol should show in your dash display. To turn off DSC, too, you hold the button for a few seconds.

Isn't it hilarious?

Recap:

DSC is always ON
DTC is activated with one push of the button and is deactivated the same way
DSC and DTC is deactivated when you hold down the button for 3 seconds

The forum is great for getting good deals on parts but it is notoriously bad for information because of people like you.

Robertbog · 05-28-2008, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armyav8tor

Isn't it hilarious?

Recap:

DSC is always ON
DTC is activated with one push of the button and is deactivated the same way
DSC and DTC is deactivated when you hold down the button for 3 seconds

The forum is great for getting good deals on parts but it is notoriously bad for information because of people like you.

So heres the real question. DTC button = DTC + DSC or just DTC...... bum bum bummm....

Anyways Eugen, get an LSD and tap the DTC button, its well worth it.

armyav8tor · 05-28-2008, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robertbog

So heres the real question. DTC button = DTC + DSC or just DTC...... bum bum bummm....

Anyways Eugen, get an LSD and tap the DTC button, its well worth it.

DTC ON = Less DSC w/ Electronic LSD

scarzie · 05-28-2008, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kptaylor

Funny "info" from someone who says to read the manual...

DTC and DSC are by default always on. To turn off DTC you push the button once. The DTC symbol should show in your dash display. To turn off DSC, too, you hold the button for a few seconds.

e.n335 · 05-28-2008, 12:21 PM

I would never have thought, that even an ECU flash requires disconnecting the battery for 1 hour to force the ECU to relearn in some cases. I drove more than 400 miles and my engine had first noticeable and later on slightly hiccups when idling in Steptronic position "D". Did this battery disconnect thingy and now, after 80 miles, the engine idles smooth in "D" and the car pulls really strong.

I'm very happy with the Noelle ECU-flash up to now.

Eugen

05-27-2008, 04:31 PM	#1
e.n335 Moderator 270 Rep 4,481 Posts Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Switzerland, ZH iTrader: (0)	e93, DSC on, AC on, "D" mode and ... the 360 HP ( crank ) Noelle tune. Slight wheel spin in 2nd gear and DSC works permanently ( 275 tyres rear ). At the beginning I had a problem with idling ( slight hiccups ). What helped with piggybacks seems to help with ECU flashes as well: disconnect the battery for 1 hour and "relearn". The car pulls like crazy, I've not seen this with all previous tunings I used/tested before. I see up to 13.8psi boost ( hold ) and 14.5psi ( spike ), tapering down to 9.5psi at 6500rpm. Oil temps are 10 degF lower than before. I'm impressed and have to dyno my car now. Currently only other mods are Forge DV's. Wow
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05-27-2008, 06:52 PM	#3
Driver72 Brigadier General 327 Rep 4,484 Posts Drives: 335i - to new owners now. Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: California iTrader: (0)	is this a tune piggyback or ecu reflash?
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05-27-2008, 09:27 PM	#4
e.n335 Moderator 270 Rep 4,481 Posts Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Switzerland, ZH iTrader: (0)	Reflash via OBDII.
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05-27-2008, 09:40 PM	#5
dmboone25 Lieutenant General 4972 Rep 10,200 Posts Drives: 2024 Golf R / 2022 718 Spyder Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Dallas, TX iTrader: (0) Garage List 2007 E92 328i [10.00] 2007 328i [10.00]	I am not familiar with this tune--is it new? __________________ Past rides: 2016 981 BGTS, 2020 MINI JCW, 2017 F80, 2015 981 CS, 2014 F22 235, 2011 E82 135, 2008 E82 135, 2007 E92 328, 2007 E92 328 (My lady drives an OG M2. So does my dad)
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05-27-2008, 10:07 PM	#6
kptaylor First Lieutenant 6 Rep 322 Posts Drives: '07 335i Coupe Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: PHX, AZ iTrader: (0)	Note that Eugen is in Switzerland...
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05-27-2008, 10:44 PM	#7
King335i Captain 47 Rep 726 Posts Drives: '13 E92 M3 CP 6MT, '13 X1 35i Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Eugene, Oregon iTrader: (1)	So is it unlikely that we'll be able to get this tune here in the states? __________________ 2007 E92 335i--SG, Fully loaded, minus the dead weight..err..iDrive and Active Steering.
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05-28-2008, 02:55 AM	#10
Sparky66 Major 58 Rep 1,230 Posts Drives: 335 E92 Coupe. Jet Black. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia iTrader: (0)	Time for a LSD . Quaife maybe ???? I can't understand how people can start pushing close to 400hp only to rely on DSC/DTC which all but strips your car of any performance because all it is doing is retarding your engine and individually braking the sliding /spinning wheel. Secondly, if you decide to turn off DTC/DSC, all you are really doing is relying on one wheel to carry the load and get the car to hook up properly. . __________________ Sticky is an Idiot
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05-28-2008, 03:15 AM	#12
Sparky66 Major 58 Rep 1,230 Posts Drives: 335 E92 Coupe. Jet Black. Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia iTrader: (0)	You might want to re-read my post above. Electronic LSD aka... DSC/DTC is nothing more than an engine/wheel brake which reduces and subdues any acceleration to stop you having any fun. Nothing wrong with Quaife here ( any negative feedback you may have heard was that if one of the rear wheels leaves the road surface, the differential becomes a open wheeler just as a torsen style diff would. With the Quaife, control and grip of the car at its' extreme, is at a totally another level and very, very noticeable - BMW made a huge mistake not fitting LSD's to the 335's. . __________________ Sticky is an Idiot
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05-28-2008, 03:37 AM	#13
armyav8tor n1smo 97 Rep 1,483 Posts Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Huntsville, AL iTrader: (1) Garage List 2020 Porsche Taycan 4S [0.00] 2016 Corvette Z06 [0.00] 2008 BMW M3 [10.00]	An "electronic" LSD will never match a Quaife LSD. DTC is BMW's version of an electronic LSD. DTC stands for Dynamic Traction Control and it is turned on by pushing the DSC button once. What DTC does is it allows for more yaw movements before it retards the engine and apply brakes. In addition, the electronic LSD portion of DTC is by apply brake to the tire without traction therefore transfering that power to the tire with traction. For example, in a hard left turn w/ large amount of throttle applied, the inside tire, or the left rear tire will spin all day long, with DTC, it will apply brake to the left rear tire therefore causing the open diff to transfer power to the tire with traction which will be the rear right tire. A Quaife LSD does this mechanically, without apply brakes. For normal to spirited driving DTC is just fine, but if you want to go for lap times, the Quaife is far superior. DSC stands for Dynamic Stability Control and is always active by default. It explains it pretty well in the owner's manual.
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05-28-2008, 08:51 AM	#15
stressdoc Moderator 618 Rep 10,855 Posts Drives: BMW i8; Toy 4runner TRD pro Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Waco TX iTrader: (0)	+1 on the LSD, although it really depends what sort of driving you do. If you drive hard, to the point where the wheels are weighted differently, then a LSD becomes most advantageous. On the other hand, for high speed autobahn touring it is not of much use. If you live in the countryside with winding up and down roads, and are getting rear wheel spin, and find that it is difficult to make smooth power oversteer transitions, then you will love a LSD. I love to steer with the throttle, and an open differential really mucks with that, especially with the relatively soft dampening on the OEM sports package. __________________ My recent ED photos: http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1026808 my not-so-recent ED: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=31829 Please join BMWCCA http://bmwcca.org/index.php?pageid=c...&ref_by=300279
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05-28-2008, 09:43 AM	#16
kptaylor First Lieutenant 6 Rep 322 Posts Drives: '07 335i Coupe Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: PHX, AZ iTrader: (0)	Funny "info" from someone who says to read the manual... DTC and DSC are by default always on. To turn off DTC you push the button once. The DTC symbol should show in your dash display. To turn off DSC, too, you hold the button for a few seconds.
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05-28-2008, 12:21 PM	#22
e.n335 Moderator 270 Rep 4,481 Posts Drives: e93 ///M3 DCT, 07/2009 Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Switzerland, ZH iTrader: (0)	I would never have thought, that even an ECU flash requires disconnecting the battery for 1 hour to force the ECU to relearn in some cases. I drove more than 400 miles and my engine had first noticeable and later on slightly hiccups when idling in Steptronic position "D". Did this battery disconnect thingy and now, after 80 miles, the engine idles smooth in "D" and the car pulls really strong. I'm very happy with the Noelle ECU-flash up to now. Eugen
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