[abcommercial]

Two weeks ago I had my coolant flushed for the first time, at 86k miles. A reputable independent German autoshop did the work. Today, two weeks later, the water pump failed. I brought my 325i to the BMW dealer to have the water pump replaced under the CPO warranty. The service advisor told me the tech had informed him there was ORANGE coolant in the car, and that, in fact, my car needs the BLUE coolant. The BMW dealer advised me that the ORANGE coolant was the probable cause of failure. However, when I confronted the independent German autoshop about it, they denied having put in orange coolant, and said they don't even have orange coolant at the shop.

Now, I am just a customer, so I don't know all the different properties of orange coolant and blue coolant. What I DO know, however, is that somebody was not being honest with me today, because the two shops are contradicting one another. I can't imagine what would motivate the first shop to put in orange coolant and lie about it; but I also can't imagine why the second shop would lie about having found orange coolant in my car.

Can somebody help me unravel this mystery?

Thanks...

[jimk]

Orange coolant us used in Audis.

[Chriztofor]

Open the radiator cap and see if it has orange or blue coolant. Personally, it is BS, any new coolant would not cause your pump to fail.

sidenote: This only goes to show the need to use approved fluids in your car, especially when it is still under warranty.

[ceb]

The dealership doesn't have much incentive to lie while the indy shop does have an incentive.

There is a good chance that the indy put the orange stuff in and this may have contributed to the failure.

This is a prime example of the hazards of using two different shops - one will invariably point the finger at the other when issues arise.

At this point you can do a few things, but both involve paying the dealer for the waterpump repair.

You can ask the dealer to give you a detailed report on what caused the failure along with a sample of the orange coolant. That in hand you can sue the indy in small claims court and you'll win.

You can just chalk it up to experience and call it a day.

[abcommercial]

Thanks for the input guys. After talking extensively to both shops, I am still a little perplexed. I find myself siding with the last person I spoke with, and going back and forth in my mind (edit: but after finding out that Audi uses the orange coolant I am now more likely to believe the indy shop was at fault).

[UncleWede]

I would be requesting the water pump from the dealer, then save as evidence. Of course they COULD pour some orange in there, but tell them you want to go show it to the indy. There will be some coolant left in the pump.

[abcommercial]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

I would be requesting the water pump from the dealer, then save as evidence. Of course they COULD pour some orange in there, but tell them you want to go show it to the indy. There will be some coolant left in the pump.

I politely requested the old pump. They said they need to send it back (presumably to the factory?) in order to fulfill the warranty requirements under CPO. Otherwise, they said, they would have given me the old pump. That sounded plausible and I did not argue.

[GMWNashville]

yea the old pump has to go back for warranty..that being said..BBB ratings half the time are BS anyway considering half the complaints out there. Anyone can file and god only knows what the issues could be over-keep in mind most indy shops do ONLY customer pay work while dealers do both CP and warranty-and in alot of cases CP stuff that due to customer influence or things of that nature are CP instead of warranty-thus the pissed off customers! If you go to an indy-chances are you already know theres going to be a bill!

[Brian_TII]

If you have to pay for the pump (out of warranty) than you should be getting the old one back or at least given the chance to see it / pay the core charge to keep it.

I'd be surprised if a german car repair shop <didn't> have orange coolant since that's what's used in VW's and Audis.

[ENINTY]

Maybe the pump just failed all on its own and the timing of it is just a coincidence...

The pump gets remanufactured, which is why the core needs to go back to BMW.

[Chriztofor]

Originally Posted by abcommercial

I politely requested the old pump. They said they need to send it back (presumably to the factory?) in order to fulfill the warranty requirements under CPO. Otherwise, they said, they would have given me the old pump. That sounded plausible and I did not argue.

So what is the update? Are they making you pay for the pump? If so, contact BMWNA, it can't hurt.

[Kodak]

If the "reputable" shop did a coolant flush and you have the receipt to prove it, then it should show what coolant they "allegedly" used, if no other work was done on your car , then the likely culprit for the "orange" coolant was the "reputable" shop no matter what they tell you.

Have the dealer prove that it was the coolant that damaged the waterpump, depending on what the dealer/independent shop tells you and the cost of repairs, you should file a BBB/Consumer Affairs complaint, then take them to Small Claims court if you have the time, so start collecting all your proof now(receipts,emails, etc).

Originally Posted by abcommercial

Two weeks ago I had my coolant flushed for the first time, at 86k miles. A reputable independent German autoshop did the work. Today, two weeks later, the water pump failed. I brought my 325i to the BMW dealer to have the water pump replaced under the CPO warranty. The service advisor told me the tech had informed him there was ORANGE coolant in the car, and that, in fact, my car needs the BLUE coolant. The BMW dealer advised me that the ORANGE coolant was the probable cause of failure. However, when I confronted the independent German autoshop about it, they denied having put in orange coolant, and said they don't even have orange coolant at the shop.

Now, I am just a customer, so I don't know all the different properties of orange coolant and blue coolant. What I DO know, however, is that somebody was not being honest with me today, because the two shops are contradicting one another. I can't imagine what would motivate the first shop to put in orange coolant and lie about it; but I also can't imagine why the second shop would lie about having found orange coolant in my car.

Can somebody help me unravel this mystery?

Thanks...

[abcommercial]

CPO warranty paid for the pump replacement. Yeah, the issue of whether the coolant did/could cause the pump failure is almost secondary here. The possibilities are:

1) there was orange coolant, and it caused the failure,

2) there was orange coolant, but it did not cause the failure,

3) there was no orange coolant, and the cause of failure could be anything

The REAL issue for me is not whether or not I had orange coolant, but rather to determine who was being honest and who wasn't. Because one TRUTH can be determined here - that ONE shop was being truthful and ONE shop was not. I'd like to know which was which....but in this case I'm no longer trying to figure it out. I am just going to use an extra measure of caution next time my car needs service, even if it means being a pain in the arse.

Interesting point about VS/Audi using the orange stuff though!

[Chriztofor]

I would stay away from that dealer. 1) They claimed that you had orange coolant without showing you (most places would go out of there way to show you the problem) 2) Most dealers, especially the ones with F rating, would not have repaired it under warranty especially when they could have charged you alot of $$$$ by blaming you. 3) They have a F rating. Where there is smoke there is fire. 4) They probably changed their tune once you told them of the name of the shop that you took it to because that shop makes purchases at that dealer and it is a reputable one.

I am glad it turned out ok.

Originally Posted by abcommercial

CPO warranty paid for the pump replacement. Yeah, the issue of whether the coolant did/could cause the pump failure is almost secondary here. The possibilities are:

1) there was orange coolant, and it caused the failure,

2) there was orange coolant, but it did not cause the failure,

3) there was no orange coolant, and the cause of failure could be anything

The REAL issue for me is not whether or not I had orange coolant, but rather to determine who was being honest and who wasn't. Because one TRUTH can be determined here - that ONE shop was being truthful and ONE shop was not. I'd like to know which was which....but in this case I'm no longer trying to figure it out. I am just going to use an extra measure of caution next time my car needs service, even if it means being a pain in the arse.

Interesting point about VS/Audi using the orange stuff though!

[abcommercial]

Very well stated - thanks.

[JunkStory]

Originally Posted by abcommercial

Thanks for the input guys. After talking extensively to both shops, I am still a little perplexed, but I'm inclined to side with the indy shop in this case. For what it is worth, the indy shop is A+ rated with the BBB and has 0 complaints in 3 years; the dealer is F rated. The indy shop works almost exclusively on high-end German autos; that is all they have in their lot.

I spoke with the owner of the indy shop who basically said it was ludicrous and that they don't even purchase the orange stuff (or know whether it even exists anymore). He even offered up his purchase invoices. Ironically, the indy shop has an account with the dealer parts department and buys at least some of their parts and supplies from them. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. I don't think the dealer realized who had done my coolant change, and probably would NOT have told me what they told me had they known.

The indy shop is lying (highlighted in bold)! As pointed out, the new Audi/VW use orange coolant. Just google it. How can a shop specializing in German cars not have at least some orange coolant? Makes absolutely no sense.

Whether or not they actually put orange coolant into your car is a mystery. One thing's for sure, they lied to you.

[abcommercial]

Originally Posted by JunkStory

The indy shop is lying (highlighted in bold)! As pointed out, the new Audi/VW use orange coolant. Just google it. How can a shop specializing in German cars not have at least some orange coolant? Makes absolutely no sense.

Whether or not they actually put orange coolant into your car is a mystery. One thing's for sure, they lied to you.

That's interesting, but then I wonder why the indy shop didn't simply say "yes, we have orange coolant and that may be what we used in your car - we use it in Audi/VW and we find it works great on all our cars, it meets the same performance specs for use in BMW and other brands, etc."

[ceb]

Originally Posted by abcommercial

That's interesting, but then I wonder why the indy shop didn't simply say "yes, we have orange coolant and that may be what we used in your car - we use it in Audi/VW and we find it works great on all our cars, it meets the same performance specs for use in BMW and other brands, etc."

That's because it isn't the right coolant for BMW. The tech at the indy shop poured in the wrong coolant, plain and simple.

The dealership had no reason to lie since they ultimately covered the repair anyway. In addition, if they were going to lie, it would have been more likely that they would have picked the green fluid as that is most popular.

The indy shop screwed up.

[ceb]

What this post shows is that it is the always the customer's responsibility to assure that the correct fluids/parts are used.

How do we do that? We can ask prior to the repair what parts are going to be used and since we've done our due diligence and know what types of oil and othe fluids are required, we'll know that the shop is at least telling us that they will use the proper parts.

We may never know for sure what they really used but we'll at least know that they know what to use. In addition, we can check somethings like coolant by just popping the hood.

When a deer decided to use my hood as a springboard when I had my Audi, the "Audi authorized" bodyshop used green coolant. I saw it before I picked the car up and made them flush it twice and put the right coolant in.

[fdriller9]

I just went through something similar with my mother's Range Rover Sport. We had tires mounted and balanced at an STS tire center and they suggested the rear brakes need to be done.

They did the rear pads, indicated that the rear rotors were within spec. A week later the parking brake seized up and started smoke at 65mph on the highway! This occurs when the rear rotors have been pulled and the parking brake shoes have not been adjusted properly after wards. It is documented by Land Rover in a TSB.

BTW, you need to readjust the rear parking brake shoes on our cars as well. Luckily, it doesn't seize up when/if you forget to.

Land Rover dealership pointed fingers at the STS....STS pointed fingers at Land Rover. No one could prove anything and that's why it's so frustrating.

In the end, I found out that the STS was lying to us. I know this because the manger told my mother that they had previously worked on Land/Range Rovers before.

Well when I talked to the manager, he told me he WASN'T AWARE that the Range Rovers had retaining bolts on the rear rotors....are you kidding me? Every rotor to my knowledge, has a retaining bolt to hold it on. Unless it's a drum brake.

Regardless if what I said above is true, you said you had worked on Range Rovers before, then you tell us you weren't aware of a retaining bolt on the rotor.

Sorry for the rant. OP, it's the indy trying to cover their ass. They messed up and don't want to have to pay for repairs.

What I suggest is writing a lengthy, detailed review of the shop and going to every yelp, google, angie's list, type review sites and just copying and pasting the negative review there so others are deterred.

That's about all you can do. Unless you can prove the shop put orange fluid in. Get them to state/write that they do not carry orange fluid.

Get a friend with an Audi or even rent one, and have a friend go in with it and see if they can reveal what fluid they use. Ask to see it. If it's orange, they are f'ed. This is of course if Audis do in fact use orange fluid, like mentioned above.

[Glim]

The moral of the story:

Check that our coolant fluid color is still blue after getting the car home from the shop.

[samchoi604]

Originally Posted by abcommercial

That's interesting, but then I wonder why the indy shop didn't simply say "yes, we have orange coolant and that may be what we used in your car - we use it in Audi/VW and we find it works great on all our cars, it meets the same performance specs for use in BMW and other brands, etc."

Different coolant colors have different chemical properties. The color isn't there for show, it's color coded so people won't as easily screw up and put in the wrong stuff. Unfortunately, the indy shop guy still managed to confuse orange with blue. My condolences goes to you for being the victim in this tragic event.