[Welcome to NBA Jam]

I am having a similar issue, although it's when my car is parked when it's hot out. In the morning when my car is garaged, it'll start right up, even if I leave it for two or more days. When I leave work, it will sometimes take about 3-4 seconds to crank.

[SnapCoupe]

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

I am having a similar issue, although it's when my car is parked when it's hot out. In the morning when my car is garaged, it'll start right up, even if I leave it for two or more days. When I leave work, it will sometimes take about 3-4 seconds to crank.

I've noticed this too. Whenever my car is parked inside, it'll start up immediately. Outside over night, even when warm, and it'll long crank about 50% of the time.

[SnapCoupe]

UPDATE: Yesterday at 89XXX miles my original HPFP finally kicked the bucket. The car went into what felt like limp mode but didn't throw a code or a CEL/SES light. Continued to drive the car home, restarted it, and there was the SES. Checked the codes and it's for the HPFP.

The fact I was able to drive it home no problem on my LPFP though, tells me the issue wasn't in regards to that going out. Going to throw a new HPFP in today hopefully.

[Cory S]

Originally Posted by SnapCoupe

UPDATE: Yesterday at 89XXX miles my original HPFP finally kicked the bucket. The car went into what felt like limp mode but didn't throw a code or a CEL/SES light. Continued to drive the car home, restarted it, and there was the SES. Checked the codes and it's for the HPFP.

The fact I was able to drive it home no problem on my LPFP though, tells me the issue wasn't in regards to that going out. Going to throw a new HPFP in today hopefully.

Awesome. How did it work out for you? 9/10 times, its a weak HPFP. They have an average lifespan of around 50-85K miles, before they lose about 30% of their ability to keep enough pressure in the fuel rails.

[SnapCoupe]

Originally Posted by Cory S

Awesome. How did it work out for you? 9/10 times, its a weak HPFP. They have an average lifespan of around 50-85K miles, before they lose about 30% of their ability to keep enough pressure in the fuel rails.

What was interesting is my old HPFP was never showing any signs of rail pressure loss up until the day it went into limp mode. The only thing that was pushing me to assume it was going out was the long cranks when the car was cold. Now that I replaced it, the long cranks are slightly better but for sure still there. Rail pressure is exactly where it was before the HPFP finally went out.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by SnapCoupe

What was interesting is my old HPFP was never showing any signs of rail pressure loss up until the day it went into limp mode. The only thing that was pushing me to assume it was going out was the long cranks when the car was cold. Now that I replaced it, the long cranks are slightly better but for sure still there. Rail pressure is exactly where it was before the HPFP finally went out.

I recently replaced my HPFP. My long cranks still happen sometimes. Pretty rare though. ITs like the car has to be warmed up and sitting for a while. But it always starts and great pressures.

Old pump was cutting fuel and throwing low fuel pressure codes and misfiring under light/heavy load sometimes.

Wondering why the longer cranks still happen sometimes.

[Kev0]

Originally Posted by Pladi

I recently replaced my HPFP. My long cranks still happen sometimes. Pretty rare though. ITs like the car has to be warmed up and sitting for a while. But it always starts and great pressures.

Old pump was cutting fuel and throwing low fuel pressure codes and misfiring under light/heavy load sometimes.

Wondering why the longer cranks still happen sometimes.

Same here but my longer cranks was from a bad battery.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by Kev0

Same here but my longer cranks was from a bad battery.

Slow crank and longer crank are very different issues/symptoms.

My battery is a year old. Absolutely not the issue.

Car cranks very fast and healthy but it takes longer until line fuel pressure its build to fire up.

[SnapCoupe]

Originally Posted by Pladi

I recently replaced my HPFP. My long cranks still happen sometimes. Pretty rare though. ITs like the car has to be warmed up and sitting for a while. But it always starts and great pressures.

Old pump was cutting fuel and throwing low fuel pressure codes and misfiring under light/heavy load sometimes.

Wondering why the longer cranks still happen sometimes.

Now that the weather is colder, it does happen more consistently. I'm going to start logging every time I start the car to see if I can get to the bottom of it. What confuses me is I can start the car up when its cold and it will continue to crank for up to 10 seconds (sometimes wont start at all), then eventually sputter to life. If I press the start button to get it to begin cranking, immediately press the button again to stop it, then attempt to restart it, it will fire up within the first spin of the starter with no sputtering. I feel like the motor isn't being fully primed with fuel during the first start attempt, but thats just my best guess. Car has a brand new battery too.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by SnapCoupe

Now that the weather is colder, it does happen more consistently. I'm going to start logging every time I start the car to see if I can get to the bottom of it. What confuses me is I can start the car up when its cold and it will continue to crank for up to 10 seconds (sometimes wont start at all), then eventually sputter to life. If I press the start button to get it to begin cranking, immediately press the button again to stop it, then attempt to restart it, it will fire up within the first spin of the starter with no sputtering. I feel like the motor isn't being fully primed with fuel during the first start attempt, but thats just my best guess. Car has a brand new battery too.

Did you ever replace the high pressure rail sensor ?

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Originally Posted by SnapCoupe

Now that the weather is colder, it does happen more consistently. I'm going to start logging every time I start the car to see if I can get to the bottom of it. What confuses me is I can start the car up when its cold and it will continue to crank for up to 10 seconds (sometimes wont start at all), then eventually sputter to life. If I press the start button to get it to begin cranking, immediately press the button again to stop it, then attempt to restart it, it will fire up within the first spin of the starter with no sputtering. I feel like the motor isn't being fully primed with fuel during the first start attempt, but thats just my best guess. Car has a brand new battery too.

This is precisely what is happening to me as well. I've noticed it happening more as it has gotten colder. My fuel pressures are good according to the sensors. The initial cold start, though, will struggle sometimes. Once I turn it off then on again, the car starts without a hitch. Very peculiar.

I've been considering replacing the HPFP, but I would expect these symptoms to continue as I try to start the car. Instead, the car starts the second time almost immediately; it idles normally, pulls fine, and has never stalled. There are no other symptoms or abnormalities. I don't even have any codes. I also am wondering if the engine is not being primed.

[SnapCoupe]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Did you ever replace the high pressure rail sensor ?

I have not. I did get a rail pressure sensor code a few times when my HPFP was in its final days, but I was told that this code can pop up when the HPFP itself is going out and typically isn't the sensor itself. Considering I haven't seen the code pop up since I have replaced the HPFP, I don't really see the need to replace it.

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

This is precisely what is happening to me as well. I've noticed it happening more as it has gotten colder. My fuel pressures are good according to the sensors. The initial cold start, though, will struggle sometimes. Once I turn it off then on again, the car starts without a hitch. Very peculiar.

I've been considering replacing the HPFP, but I would expect these symptoms to continue as I try to start the car. Instead, the car starts the second time almost immediately; it idles normally, pulls fine, and has never stalled. There are no other symptoms or abnormalities. I don't even have any codes. I also am wondering if the engine is not being primed.

Yup, everything lines up to what I'm experiencing. No other abnormalities other than the long cranks when cold. The only codes I have seen since replacing the HPFP are the mysterious high pressure shadow codes from MHD.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by SnapCoupe

I have not. I did get a rail pressure sensor code a few times when my HPFP was in its final days, but I was told that this code can pop up when the HPFP itself is going out and typically isn't the sensor itself. Considering I haven't seen the code pop up since I have replaced the HPFP, I don't really see the need to replace it.



Yup, everything lines up to what I'm experiencing. No other abnormalities other than the long cranks when cold. The only codes I have seen since replacing the HPFP are the mysterious high pressure shadow codes from MHD.

Yes these symptoms i am seeing as well however i think alot less. MY long crank will happen maybe once a week or less. I drive and start my car multiple times a day. Still getting the shadow code as well. We should not be too concerned i think at this point.


What i am thinking it could be the rail nut connectors are not maybe torqued properly (over or under). So fuel is slowly leaking pressure through there but you would probably smell that..

Maybe just a tiny bit under low pressure when the car is off, When the car is on then the pressure is high enough and does not leak. (i know that under normal circumstances doesn't make sense it should be the opposite but not always). Fuel behaves differently under pressure and temperature. Esp winter blend with butane, it has a different evap point with temp.

We are def seeing a loss in pressure in the line.

[lwgrenier]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Yes these symptoms i am seeing as well however i think alot less. MY long crank will happen maybe once a week or less. I drive and start my car multiple times a day. Still getting the shadow code as well. We should not be too concerned i think at this point.


What i am thinking it could be the rail nut connectors are not maybe torqued properly (over or under). So fuel is slowly leaking pressure through there but you would probably smell that..

Maybe just a tiny bit under low pressure when the car is off, When the car is on then the pressure is high enough and does not leak. (i know that under normal circumstances doesn't make sense it should be the opposite but not always). Fuel behaves differently under pressure and temperature. Esp winter blend with butane, it has a different evap point with temp.

We are def seeing a loss in pressure in the line.

I over-torqued the line running from the hpfp to the fuel rail when I replaced mine. It was leaking pretty noticeably (smell and sight) when I started the car. Ended up having to replace the line, that was a bitch.

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

I have noticed when I unlocked the car, I am not hearing the whirr of the fuel pump. I'll need to double check on that though. It could be not priming.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by lwgrenier

I over-torqued the line running from the hpfp to the fuel rail when I replaced mine. It was leaking pretty noticeably (smell and sight) when I started the car. Ended up having to replace the line, that was a bitch.

I personally do not see or smell fuel but i think its very easy to not torque them properly causing tiny leaks or bigger leaks.

I believe from TIS those are 30 newton meters or something close to that. Maybe 25 but its not alot.

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1004917

Check this out about the fuel pressure regulator. These symptoms are very similar.

[lwgrenier]

Originally Posted by Pladi

I personally do not see or smell fuel but i think its very easy to not torque them properly causing tiny leaks or bigger leaks.

I believe from TIS those are 30 newton meters or something close to that. Maybe 25 but its not alot.

That sounds about right. Forgot my torque wrench didn't click for left-hand threads (was holding the wrench upside down for ease of access). Didn't make that mistake again.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by lwgrenier

That sounds about right. Forgot my torque wrench didn't click for left-hand threads (was holding the wrench upside down for ease of access). Didn't make that mistake again.

The access is a BITCH esp for this job.

[SnapCoupe]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Yes these symptoms i am seeing as well however i think alot less. MY long crank will happen maybe once a week or less. I drive and start my car multiple times a day. Still getting the shadow code as well. We should not be too concerned i think at this point.


What i am thinking it could be the rail nut connectors are not maybe torqued properly (over or under). So fuel is slowly leaking pressure through there but you would probably smell that..

Maybe just a tiny bit under low pressure when the car is off, When the car is on then the pressure is high enough and does not leak. (i know that under normal circumstances doesn't make sense it should be the opposite but not always). Fuel behaves differently under pressure and temperature. Esp winter blend with butane, it has a different evap point with temp.

We are def seeing a loss in pressure in the line.

Double checked the nut when the new HPFP was put in as we needed to loosen it to do the ISTA fuel rail diag to "confirm" that the HPFP was truly dead.

Whats really annoying for the 2011 E9X cars in particular is the lack of a low pressure fuel sensor. The only way to know if the car is losing pressure between the LPFP and fuel rail over night is to tap one of the lines with an old school pressure gauge. This is a huge PITA because the car has to sit in the air long enough to meet the conditions of a "cold start" to accurately see if its not priming to the correct pressure.

Originally Posted by Welcome to NBA Jam

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1004917

Check this out about the fuel pressure regulator. These symptoms are very similar.

Before I replaced my HPFP I popped the back seat off and did a visual inspection of the regulator seals as per a technician's advice. I don't know how accurate this is, but he mentioned that if the regulator isn't working as intended it typically will have a visible leak. Is there anyway besides blindly replacing the regulator to tell if it is busted?

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by SnapCoupe

This is a huge PITA because the car has to sit in the air long enough to meet the conditions of a "cold start" to accurately see if its not priming to the correct pressure.

big time, totally agree...

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Originally Posted by SnapCoupe

Double checked the nut when the new HPFP was put in as we needed to loosen it to do the ISTA fuel rail diag to "confirm" that the HPFP was truly dead.

Whats really annoying for the 2011 E9X cars in particular is the lack of a low pressure fuel sensor. The only way to know if the car is losing pressure between the LPFP and fuel rail over night is to tap one of the lines with an old school pressure gauge. This is a huge PITA because the car has to sit in the air long enough to meet the conditions of a "cold start" to accurately see if its not priming to the correct pressure.



Before I replaced my HPFP I popped the back seat off and did a visual inspection of the regulator seals as per a technician's advice. I don't know how accurate this is, but he mentioned that if the regulator isn't working as intended it typically will have a visible leak. Is there anyway besides blindly replacing the regulator to tell if it is busted?

Using INPA or another scanning tool and checking rail pressure after shutoff, then again after three hours should be a good indicator. If the pressure falls below 70kpa, then you may have an issue with your fuel pressure regulator.

The car should be around 500kpa after automatic fuel pump priming.