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Sway Bars: All Reviews Wanted
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10-19-2009, 02:57 PM | #1 |
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Sway Bars: All Reviews Wanted
I was thinking about which sway bars to get, and since Harold@HP is out of town, I decided to search for myself and I realized how many options and how many reviews there were. I'm going to go ahead and compile them here tonight and tomorrow via the threads on e90post. But if you have any experiences or want to chime about which are the best or best value, write it up.
This thread can be well supplemented by Mr 5's: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169116 Hotchkis vs. UUC vs. H&R vs. M3 vs. BMW Performance Hotchkis - Front sway: 1 1/4" (32mm) tubular steel (95% stiffer than stock) - Rear sway: 5/8" (16mm) tubular steel (105% stiffer than stock) - Polyeurethane bushings, adjustable end links -$450 M3 - Front sway: 26.5mm tubular steel - Rear sway: 23mm tubular steel - Comes with bushings, bushing brackets, reuse end links - $370-450 MSRP H&R - Front sway: 27mm "strongest and most durable steel allow (50crV) - Rear sway: 20mm - Urethane/Teflon composite bushings - $475 UUC - Front Sway: 28mm 3 hole adjustable - Rear Sway: 19 mm 2 hole adjustable - Polyeurethane bushings, Adjustable front end links, rear stops provided - $465-500 MSRP
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2018 R35 GT-R Cicio800 | 2007 E92 335i - RB Turbos, TC Kline DA Coils, HPA M3 Suspension, Quaife LSD, Stoptech BBK, JB4, FuelIT, AR Downpipes, RDSport Quads, Stett OC, Helix IC, Volk TE-37, Vorsteiner V-35, OSS Headlights | Retired - 2015 F82 M4
Last edited by TheAcAvenger; 10-19-2009 at 03:47 PM.. |
10-19-2009, 03:10 PM | #2 |
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UUC
Reviewer: "who's ur daddy?"
Car: 323xi Simultaneous mods: KW V3/UUC Post:http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306107 "I took the xi to the track before and all I can say is that the suspension is pretty soft. The transitions between corners was really unsettling to the car and thus to the driver. On the street, the word I would ascribe to the stock suspension is "sloppy". Way too much body roll. With the KW V3's and UUC sways, the car just corners on rails. Really flat. Just fun fun fun. Over bumps, the car seems just a tad more stiff, but surprisingly it just seems so much more controlled - more solid. Not sure if it's the rebound setting. I might tweak it a little softer, but not much more so. I never understood why people would swap out suspensions - thought it was a terrible waste of money. But the unsettling body roll made me look at this option. I now totally understand why people re-do their suspensions..." Reviewer: ucdbiendog Car: E90 335xi Simultaneous Mods: UUC Sways, front and rear Post: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275034 "So this weekend I (finally) got to install the front/rear sway bars on my 335xi. They have been sitting in my garage for about two months now, so Iwas very excited to do this. In terms of installation, it was not too bad. My dad and I did both front and rear in about 4.5 hours. To me, it seemed like the front was slightly more difficult. There are a couple hoses in the front that need to be detached and moved out of the way to be able to drop the stock sway bar, and on one of these hoses there is a bolt further up in the engine bay that is very tricky to remove. Now I haven't really had a chance to take it on an extended drive in the twisties, but here is my first impression. I can definitely notice a reduction in body roll while turning which is really nice with the AWD. The car is more responsive to steering inputs, but not the point that it feels jumpy. I put the rear bars in at their stiffest setting, and now the car feels more neutral as opposed to understeer with the stock bars. In answer to one of my previous questions, the adjustable end links that came were indeed replacements for the front end-links. The stock ones were vey light weight (likely aluminum) and the new ones were much beefier (stainless steel). All in all, it was very worth the cost, and it was a great father-son project for fathers day weekend. Cheers!" Relevant Post from "cyphr": The front is non-adjustable, the rear is adjustable. The noise from the bushings can be eliminated using marine grease (I use Amsoil purple marine grease) Reviewer: "jbass524" Car: E92 335i Post: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...27&postcount=4 "I have UUCs and would not recommend them at all. They are far too stiff for the car limiting the BMW-engineered mechanical grip the car likes. OVERKILL. They're huge bars but bigger is not better. UUC will tell you how they get rid of understeer and make turn in sharper. This is correct to a degree. Once you start driving fast the loss of the BMW-engineered grip starts rearing it's head. No matter what the performance gains or losses might be they have consistently loosened up and cause a lot of noise. Not worth it. You should definitely look at getting the M3 bars. but don't look at sways as a big upgrade. If you can, work on other areas of the suspension then put sways on last. And definitely have someone spec and install suspension that has a lot of experience." Reviewer: "longdoj" Car: 335xi First: Rears, Later: Fronts Ugh I keep forgetting to get the tech specs from Rob and he's out for the rest of the weekend. Someone PM me or something on Monday and I'll find out. So...Oh...My...God....this bar is fantastic. When I got the rear bar in, the stock pile of donkey crap Toyota like thing that had a 335xi on the back of it became a Bimmer. Not necessarily an E36 M3 like Bimmer, but a Bimmer nonetheless. When going around turns (with nannies off) you could glide the car into an oversteer situation with the tactile response of the front of the car twisting. So, with the remaining body roll, you could tell how to "let" the back out gently. With the front bar we've moved up to M Coupe type rigidity. There's that circle in front of my school I use to give me quick feedback on changes to my car. Well usually I go around the first S and then sort of throttle steer around the sweeping left into a straight. Well this time I was trying to kick the rear end out and was going faster and faster and faster and the damn car wouldn't turn over until finally I felt the tires quickly start losing grip and I corrected. That is to say, there's no longer the tactile feedback of the car twisting because....it DOESN'T AT ALL! Literally it was as if I was going in a straight line. Oh...and this is on my garbage stock Continentals with my garbage stock wheels....I haven't even tried the car with my K1/RE01R combo yet. Speaking of straight lines, with just the rear bar installed there is a strange feeling changing lanes at high speeds. Not bad, not good...just strange. It's kind of as if you were asking the car nicely to move over a few feet and it was being a baby about it. With the front bar installed the car remains planted at all times and leads to much more confidence at high speeds. Changing lanes feels natural. The car obeys your every command willingly. Also, the bar really didn't contribute a noticeable level of understeer. I mean, I suppose that it changes the steady state oversteer to limit traction imbalance oversteer. However, in steady state the car is tremendously balanced. I would HIGHLY recommend this to any XI owner that gives a damn about corners.
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2018 R35 GT-R Cicio800 | 2007 E92 335i - RB Turbos, TC Kline DA Coils, HPA M3 Suspension, Quaife LSD, Stoptech BBK, JB4, FuelIT, AR Downpipes, RDSport Quads, Stett OC, Helix IC, Volk TE-37, Vorsteiner V-35, OSS Headlights | Retired - 2015 F82 M4
Last edited by TheAcAvenger; 10-19-2009 at 03:43 PM.. |
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10-19-2009, 03:44 PM | #4 | |
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From reading about 10 or so threads so far, the H&R rear actually seems to have the most dramatic affect. IIRC, hotchkis were recommended for a car with an LSD, whereas the M3's were recommended for a car without it. After reading the other sway bar discussion thread from 2008, I get the feeling that anything deviating too far from stock has the potential for adverse handling consequences. However, the hotchkis tube is hollow, so it's size might not have as much of an impact as one might think.
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2018 R35 GT-R Cicio800 | 2007 E92 335i - RB Turbos, TC Kline DA Coils, HPA M3 Suspension, Quaife LSD, Stoptech BBK, JB4, FuelIT, AR Downpipes, RDSport Quads, Stett OC, Helix IC, Volk TE-37, Vorsteiner V-35, OSS Headlights | Retired - 2015 F82 M4
Last edited by TheAcAvenger; 10-19-2009 at 04:28 PM.. |
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10-19-2009, 03:53 PM | #5 | |||
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Relevant posts from leftcoastman, stressdoc, and harold
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stressdoc Quote:
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2018 R35 GT-R Cicio800 | 2007 E92 335i - RB Turbos, TC Kline DA Coils, HPA M3 Suspension, Quaife LSD, Stoptech BBK, JB4, FuelIT, AR Downpipes, RDSport Quads, Stett OC, Helix IC, Volk TE-37, Vorsteiner V-35, OSS Headlights | Retired - 2015 F82 M4
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10-19-2009, 04:12 PM | #6 |
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Hotckis
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Car: 2007 335i Simult. Mods: Koni FSD, Eibach Pros, Hotckis front and rear Post: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=92 "I went with the Hotchkis Sway bars front and rear, also the Koni FSD and Eibach Pro Kit and I am very happy with it. I had it all installed at once so I cant really say how much each compnoent added to the handling, but from what i have read it seems the sawy bars help handling more than shocks and srpings, which do more for the ride. That is not to say the shocks and springs dont do anything for handling, they help a lot. I chose the Hotchkis because they were lighter and I read that the H&R was better suited for harder driving than I usually do. I also saw something about the iside wheel coming up in very aggressive turns. The hotchkis are not adjustable though. As for the install, it looked like a pain in the ass and I left that up to a local garage that works on a lot of BMWs. The setup i got is very nice for me. I like to drive the country roads and truns fast and hard, but i dont track. I also wanted a comfortable ride as it is my daily driver. I was able to get a good balance with this and it actually rides better than stock. A lot less understeer and body roll plus the car feels much more grounded. To me it used to drive like it was skimming the surface of the road and not really planted. Now it feels planted and gives more confidence when i drive it. The car holds straight lines better at highway speeds. Less steering correction needed, not as twitchy. Where i used to feel every seam and crack in the highway I dont anymore. The bumps diminish but the dips are a bit more exagerated. The bumpy turns are better than stock but the car still skips a bit if the turn is especially bumpy and I am going a bit faster. There is barely any front end plow or dive from the front end when I am in a changing radius turn and have to tighten it in the middle. Prior the car would feel like the nose was going to the ground and then the front tires would start to come loose. I realize I am a bit late with this info but I hope it helps." From "Mwahlert" "i received this "sales pitch" from hotchkis a few months ago when i was shopping sways. "E92 BMW Sway Bar Development Theory For the ultimate street-track handling, bigger isn't always better. A balanced, tuned sway bar system is! The Final Result: The BMW E92 is a great car with loads of turbo induced horsepower. However, it's a somewhat heavy car at 3590 lbs, and in stock form has significant body roll during cornering. Unlike the new M3 with 50/50 F&R weight distribution, the E92 has 51% front weight bias. Therefore, we chose to aggressively increase the front sway bar rate (95% stiffer than stock) to reduce much of the body roll and dramatically quicken steering response. We increased the rear sway bar rate to 90% stiffer than stock to reduce roll, but not to harm corner exit traction. Our Methods: We equipped our BMW 335 ci development car with Bilstein PSS10 Coil-overs, Bridgestone Potenza RE01R and RE050A tires (from The Tire Rack) and a Stop Tech big brake upgrade package. Then we spent numerous hours testing to develop our balanced sway bar system worthy of definitive handling improvements on the street and track. We tested 4 rear sway bar sizes, and two fronts to determine the proper roll stiffness and roll couple. We put these combinations through our battery of punishing tests including 600 ft slalom and numerous trips to our local SCCA and BMW CCA autocross events. We finally decided that the 1 ¼” (32mm) front and 5/8” (16mm) rear combination gave the E92 the best balanced, most comfortable handling on the street and track. We tested the larger 0.75" (20mm) solid rear bar (355% stiffer than stock) with negative results. The BMW makes boost quickly and when the turbos spooled up the rear tires would easily break traction and our forward bite would suffer. We knew our BMW could post quicker lap times with faster corner exit speeds. This meant tuning the rear sway bar to help get the power to the ground early as possible. After we reduced the rate to 105% stiffer than stock, we were able to apply the throttle earlier, have much quicker corner exit speeds and ultimately achieve faster lap times. We know these results to be true from past experiences developing sway bars for the 500 hp 2007 ZO6 Corvette. With the ZO6, we achieved the fastest lap times using a rear sway bar that was 15% softer than stock. Absolutely contrary to what most people think! For the ultimate street- track handling, bigger isn't always better. A balanced, tuned system is!"
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2018 R35 GT-R Cicio800 | 2007 E92 335i - RB Turbos, TC Kline DA Coils, HPA M3 Suspension, Quaife LSD, Stoptech BBK, JB4, FuelIT, AR Downpipes, RDSport Quads, Stett OC, Helix IC, Volk TE-37, Vorsteiner V-35, OSS Headlights | Retired - 2015 F82 M4
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10-19-2009, 04:17 PM | #7 | |
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Mr. 5's experience with the M-sport 14mm rear
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2018 R35 GT-R Cicio800 | 2007 E92 335i - RB Turbos, TC Kline DA Coils, HPA M3 Suspension, Quaife LSD, Stoptech BBK, JB4, FuelIT, AR Downpipes, RDSport Quads, Stett OC, Helix IC, Volk TE-37, Vorsteiner V-35, OSS Headlights | Retired - 2015 F82 M4
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10-19-2009, 05:23 PM | #8 | |
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10-19-2009, 06:13 PM | #9 |
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I've had the UUC on for more than 1-year with 6 track days and quite a bit of daily commute.
They work perfectly and flawlessly. I've had no issues at all with my suspension (JIC Cross coil-overs included). My suspension is tailored to slight understeer (read-safe). The amount of grip is immense. On the track running street tires (Goodyear F1 Asymmetrics) I pulled 1.06g turning left and 1.08g turning right. The car is completely flat in the turns and is really predictable.
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10-21-2009, 03:09 AM | #13 | |
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10-21-2009, 05:57 AM | #14 |
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I have eibach sway bars. Basically it's amazing.
Anybody that has driven with me knows that my car stays flat. Although sways bars are a difference, the eibach springs and Koni yellows are great too. Eibachs are recommended by me. Highly! |
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10-21-2009, 08:19 PM | #15 | |
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If you put stiff sways you may have a flatter car but would probably create more of whatever negative handling characteristic you have. This becomes evident when you are pushing above 90%. The warm up lap feels amazing but then you can't understand why you're running slower times when you start pushing:
This was my experience and my opinion only. |
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10-21-2009, 08:49 PM | #16 | |
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I actually might just do an STU build, and leave the r-comps and hardcore autocrossing to the SM 2G DSM that I'll hopefully be pickup. |
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10-21-2009, 09:13 PM | #17 | |
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10-21-2009, 09:33 PM | #18 | |
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Back on topic, what rear bar would be good? UUC is adjustable, is it worth it? |
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10-26-2010, 08:42 AM | #19 |
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My setup and review may seem a little strange but I'll share it anyway. I am running non E93 M3 front with UUC rear, was previously running UUC front and rear.
I bought the car from a dealer, stupidly with my own "inspection" (looking for paintwork, bodywork, evidence of engine mods) and bought my car. Shortly after purchasing it started to be very noisy at the front, creaking and squeaking very audibly and embarrassingly at 30mph and below. Above these speeds I'm sure it was making just as much noise but it just wasn't audible. And this was not just a "grease the bushings" type noise, this was metal on metal contact - not good. Another strange nuance of the noise was that when the car was cold, so was the noise. As temp increased, the car got noisier. The car would get noisier and noisier the longer the trip. Took to the dealer, they said I had bought a car with aftermarket sways and they're not gonna do anything, take it back to who I bought it from. After getting the runaround from them for a week, I was basically told the would put it back to stock for $2400 or I could get lost. Anyone shopping for a BMW in Chicagoland would best avoid Bill Jacobs in Naperville - I'm far from the only one with a bad experience with them. Luckily, I have a lift in my garage. Did some research, but not enough as I would've probably ended up with the E93 M3 bar as it's stiffer but bought the standard bar and put it in. I didn't want to screw around with dropping the rear end if I was happy with the results, so I was only doing front at this time. Result - quiet! Mainly what I wanted. The handling is right on par with where it was, and the front actually felt a little tighter (probably due to replacing the bushings with new ones). In comparison to cars with just ZSP, this is definitely favorable to me, as the rear rotates a little better, but doesn't threaten to snap on you and has never made me feel uncomfortable. I can't comment on how many miles are on the UUC, and I seem to have an isolated experience with the interference. To be specific, the tie rods would knock against the bar... as evidenced by wear on the bar and rods, but just surface wear I did not feel I needed to replace the rods. I tried it on all adjustment settings and could not get it to work, and it appeared it was installed properly (not sure how one could install this one upside down since it comes pre-packed) |
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03-20-2012, 11:32 PM | #21 |
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This is an old thread but lots of good information here - it helped me!
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03-23-2012, 02:20 AM | #22 |
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Great info guys but i was wondering if it was true or not. I had called BMW parts HKG for a quote on M3 sways and he warned me that m3 anti roll bars on a 335i e93 would have a chance of tearing apart my undercarriage (i'm assuming the plastic covering, etc)?
*edit* i'm not trying to be a troll, this actually happened and i just wanted to know if it was a good option to upgrade the front sways on my e93 to m3 e93 sways. Last edited by scflaw; 03-23-2012 at 04:31 AM.. |
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