[Bob Shiftright]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

I'm an old guy driving fast.

Originally Posted by David Mamet

Old age and treachery will always beat youth and exuberance.

___

[Needbmwpartzz]

Originally Posted by csu87

Lane blockers create traffic jams

Too many cars on roads not meant for the volume

[KlausPA]

Originally Posted by Douche

I know you're kidding but I hope you don't really think "slow moving traffic" is worse than "moving quickly to stop ahead without gap between cars".

True traffic jams are what you described manual transmission drivers do.

You want slow paced gapped traffic. It's more efficient and reduces traffic jams (stop and go).

One should never "try to fill a hole".

The only ways to really reduce traffic or improve flow without following what I said is a) reduce amount of cars and b) increase the amount of road.

No, the only way to reduce traffic is to improve the operational capability of a facility by improving flow through a known point. A roundabout or circle is clear example of how to improve flow through an intersection by reducing the amount of conflict points and crossing traffic.

I'm a P.E. who designs roads and interchanges in MD all day so I'm all for more roads brother! but that is not the problem... At least not in Maryland.

[Douche]

Originally Posted by KlausPA

No, the only way to reduce traffic is to improve the operational capability of a facility by improving flow through a known point. A roundabout or circle is clear example of how to improve flow through an intersection by reducing the amount of conflict points and crossing traffic.

I'm a P.E. who designs roads and interchanges in MD all day so I'm all for more roads brother! but that is not the problem... At least not in Maryland.

So you'd put a roundabout in the middle of a highway that gets phantom jams? That's interesting. More so than your qualification and job role, your idea is very interesting. I'd certainly like to hear more.

[KlausPA]

Originally Posted by Douche

So you'd put a roundabout in the middle of a highway that gets phantom jams? That's interesting. More so than your qualification and job role, your idea is very interesting. I'd certainly like to hear more.

Yeah I would and I do actually. Interchanges are a form of roundabout... innovative interchanges are replacing the good old loop ramps and plain diamond interchanges. Go ahead and Google interchange roundabout, you will find tons of info about.

[e92_boost]

Originally Posted by Douche

Do you "sometimes" pee sitting down?

Yes sometimes Ya douche

[newoldbeemer]

I'm an ex-stick guy, got an AT, missed stick occasionally when carving some canyons but didn't want to deal with it in daily traffic, wanted it for weekends... ended up with two cars - an automatic for commute and a stick for weekends. Win-win.

But no I don't look down on anyone. For me it depends on the type of car. Personally (no offense) a BMW / Audi / GTI is best enjoyed with a DCT kind of system. But something closer to a "sports car" like a Miata / BRZ / STI is better with a manual. Its just my taste. I don't ever see myself buying an Accord with manual, for example. Or even a Mustang.

I might catch myself saying "fail" if I see a Miata or a 370Z with automatic (or a WRX with CVT), simply because the best part of those cars is the sensation of shifting. But even then I will say that to myself and never to its owner.

[alexwhittemore]

Originally Posted by newoldbeemer

But no I don't look down on anyone. For me it depends on the type of car. Personally (no offense) a BMW / Audi / GTI is best enjoyed with a DCT kind of system. But something closer to a "sports car" like a Miata / BRZ / STI is better with a manual. Its just my taste. I don't ever see myself buying an Accord with manual, for example. Or even a Mustang.

I don't disagree with you. But I do love the manual gearbox in the current GTI. I don't get around manuals tooooo much, but it's definitely my favorite that I've driven. It adds exactly the pizzaz to the golf that the GTI is supposed to offer on top of the engine and suspension upgrades.

[JasW]

Originally Posted by newoldbeemer

I'm an ex-stick guy, got an AT, missed stick occasionally when carving some canyons but didn't want to deal with it in daily traffic, wanted it for weekends... ended up with two cars - an automatic for commute and a stick for weekends. Win-win.

But no I don't look down on anyone. For me it depends on the type of car. Personally (no offense) a BMW / Audi / GTI is best enjoyed with a DCT kind of system. But something closer to a "sports car" like a Miata / BRZ / STI is better with a manual. Its just my taste. I don't ever see myself buying an Accord with manual, for example. Or even a Mustang.

I might catch myself saying "fail" if I see a Miata or a 370Z with automatic (or a WRX with CVT), simply because the best part of those cars is the sensation of shifting. But even then I will say that to myself and never to its owner.

I couldn't disagree more about a BMW being best enjoyed with an AT. You have no choice with certain larger BMWs (a category that, sadly, will soon expand to include the 5 series). But for the lower numbered and Z series, I agree with Mike Miller: that to truly experience the essence of the Ultimate Driving Machine, you have to drive a stick.

Ive had a driver's license for just over 40 years now. I only drive stick. (So much for that theory upthread that a preference for stick is something one outgrows.) Excuses like there's too much traffic in my commute, etc., are pretty lame IMO. The truth is, the only time a stick is relatively inconvenient in traffic is when there are those monster jams caused by an accident, and you're not moving at all for long periods. In regular stop and go (really slow and go) traffic jams, I find a stick better because you're not continually riding the brake pedal.

In any event, I don't belittle those who drive an AT, but I do feel they are not really driving their cars. The car is doing most of the driving for them.

[Taskmaster]

I don't like automatics.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by JasW

I couldn't disagree more about a BMW being best enjoyed with an AT. You have no choice with certain larger BMWs (a category that, sadly, will soon expand to include the 5 series). But for the lower numbered and Z series, I agree with Mike Miller: that to truly experience the essence of the Ultimate Driving Machine, you have to drive a stick.

Ive had a driver's license for just over 40 years now. I only drive stick. (So much for that theory upthread that a preference for stick is something one outgrows.) Excuses like there's too much traffic in my commute, etc., are pretty lame IMO. The truth is, the only time a stick is relatively inconvenient in traffic is when there are those monster jams caused by an accident, and you're not moving at all for long periods. In regular stop and go (really slow and go) traffic jams, I find a stick better because you're not continually riding the brake pedal.

In any event, I don't belittle those who drive an AT, but I do feel they are not really driving their cars. The car is doing most of the driving for them.

I own one automatic and it's a H3T Alpha and only came with a slushbox; I bought it late in 2009, when not many were left and there were no 5cylinder/manuals left (I looked everywhere). When I occasionally drive it to work in a traffic jam (Northern Virginia) my right leg actually gets tired from holding the brake. I hate automatics. I probably said it earlier in this thread, but if more people drove manuals, there'd be less traffic jams.

The best thing about driving a manual in the modern age is most of the young dickheads that steal cars can't drive them.

[Nitrousbird]

I test drove an auto 335. Paddle shifters and very similar to my E92. Zero interest in that car...didn't even consider it for a second. The slush box really took away from the experience.

Now the DCT in a 135i I drove was more enjoyable.

[tellstar75]

Well ive learnt somthing today i thought americans never bought manual cars.and i agree audis and anything v.a.g is crap

[Walkingtree87]

Originally Posted by AndreyT

I'd guess that you are intentionally taking the story out of context in order to make it serve your purpose. No, M/T driver don't hate A/T drivers and never did.

I highly doubt that your co-worker just out of the blue decided to belittle you for driving an A/T car. My bet is that the matter was raised in the context of a more extensive confrontation, which by that moment has already deteriorated to the point when people started throwing this sort of "arguments" into each other faces. That's all there is to it.

You won't really achieve anything asking such loaded questions here.

You didn't have to answer the question then.

[335idle]

No clue
But
I've owned 2 Sti 2005., and a 2013. The clutch feels amazing and daily drove both MD-DC 2 years. Very fun and entertaining even in heavy traffic.
But
I could not stand the 335i manual., felt to soft and weak compared to the Sti. Just a very boring drive. So my 335i is auto fine with me.

[KiwiRD]

Originally Posted by 335idle

No clue
But
I've owned 2 Sti 2005., and a 2013. The clutch feels amazing and daily drove both MD-DC 2 years. Very fun and entertaining even in heavy traffic.
But
I could not stand the 335i manual., felt to soft and weak compared to the Sti. Just a very boring drive. So my 335i is auto fine with me.

What do you mean by weak?

[norsairius]

I drive an AT 335. Works great as a daily driver and as far as automatics go, it's pretty good. The manual mode is also plenty fun.

I've had MT cars before (2009 Subaru WRX and 2010 VW GTI) and I thoroughly enjoyed them. The choice to go AT was more for my significant other than anything. I'm considering going back to manual with my next vehicle, but that'll be unfortunately hard to find.

I personally don't frown upon people who drive automatics (I'll admit I used to, to a degree). I do agree with another member's comments that certain cars seem to be made to be enjoyed with manuals more, but people have their reasons for buying what they did and at the end of the day, it's their money. I don't care what they're buying with it as long as they're not hurting anyone else.

Originally Posted by KiwiRD

What do you mean by weak?

I can't speak on behalf of the person you're asking the question of, but some perspective that may help:
I haven't had the opportunity to drive a manual BMW yet, but I've sat in some showroom models and tried rowing the gears, the feel of the clutch pedal, etc.

The BMW's clutch and shifting does feel what I'd describe as softer compared to a Subaru WRX STI, but I personally wouldn't say that means it's weak and certainly not worse. I've test driven the WRX STI and owned a WRX for a while. The clutch pedal is fairly heavy and the shifting requires more deliberate action.

[Grand_hustle17]

Im a manual guy. Personally i dont hate autos but i love the driving experience more with manual, i love the way the exhaust note sound the shift lol, im rarely in traffic and even when i am it really isnt annoying like people says. I just personally think its more fun than an auto. Even if the auto is faster. Bought an auto maxima and the trans went and i 6mt swap which was my 1st manual car, i havent owned an automatic since then. Infact my friend/mech was selling me his FBO with i drive 335i for a freaking steal, but i just couldnt live with the auto.

[driverman]

Responding to the OP's question, the vast majority of MT drivers do not hate AT drivers. if a few do, they have big problems that go beyond cars.

Now on to the question I've seen raised countless times since I joined this forum in 2007: "Which is better - MT or AT?" The answer is simply - it depends on your needs and wants. Neither one is inherently superior to the other.

Most modern auto transmissions shift faster and smoother than most of us can shift our manuals and they usually have faster 0-60 times. And they are much more efficient at transmitting power than they used to be. Driving a manual requires more involvement and gives more control and most car magazine writers prefer manuals for those reasons.

The bottom line is that if you like to shift and you are willing to put in the extra concentration and energy that requires, a MT is better. If you'd rather not bother and/or your hands are busy with other things (eating, using your smartphone, etc.) and/or you share your car with a spouse that can't drive a MT, and/or you love use paddle shifters, an AT is better.

I drive a MT because I like to shift, I get bored while driving and I like something to do, I like the direct connection between the engine and drive wheels and I like to work on perfecting my shifts. But I can certainly understand others choosing a well engineered AT, especially if they live in an urban environment and drive in stop and go traffic.

[KiwiRD]

Originally Posted by norsairius

I drive an AT 335. Works great as a daily driver and as far as automatics go, it's pretty good. The manual mode is also plenty fun.

I've had MT cars before (2009 Subaru WRX and 2010 VW GTI) and I thoroughly enjoyed them. The choice to go AT was more for my significant other than anything. I'm considering going back to manual with my next vehicle, but that'll be unfortunately hard to find.

I personally don't frown upon people who drive automatics (I'll admit I used to, to a degree). I do agree with another member's comments that certain cars seem to be made to be enjoyed with manuals more, but people have their reasons for buying what they did and at the end of the day, it's their money. I don't care what they're buying with it as long as they're not hurting anyone else.



I can't speak on behalf of the person you're asking the question of, but some perspective that may help:
I haven't had the opportunity to drive a manual BMW yet, but I've sat in some showroom models and tried rowing the gears, the feel of the clutch pedal, etc.

The BMW's clutch and shifting does feel what I'd describe as softer compared to a Subaru WRX STI, but I personally wouldn't say that means it's weak and certainly not worse. I've test driven the WRX STI and owned a WRX for a while. The clutch pedal is fairly heavy and the shifting requires more deliberate action.

I own a 6MT E90 335i. I was just curious as to what was meant by "weak" since the factory torque rating of the 335i's ZF GS6-53BZ manual is over 400 lb-ft. It's the same box as used in the US-only 6MT E60 M5, and the 335D, one of which makes a lot of power and one of which makes a boatload of torque, so it can handle both just fine. I'm not sure the same can be said for the manual gearboxes Subaru chooses to use as they aren't exactly known for holding up under power. They may feel snappier, but that doesn't correlate to strength.

[abren]

Originally Posted by KiwiRD

I'm not sure the same can be said for the manual gearboxes Subaru chooses to use as they aren't exactly known for holding up under power. They may feel snappier, but that doesn't correlate to strength.

The STI 6MT can hold a very good amount of power. The WRX 5MT on the other hand, cannot. Coming from an 04 STI, it's difficult to describe what he's talking about but I do agree.

[snaimpally]

Originally Posted by Antartic

Just today, a coworker of mine pretty much belittled me in front of a bunch of people by calling me a poser. He pretty much claimed that since I drive an automatic car, Im being a poser and trying to show off my money by driving a BMW. He drives a manual Audi A4 (he justifies his Audi purchase by saying he bought a manual so its ok).

I bought mine used for not that expensive price... mostly to enjoy it and I do consider myself an enthusiast. Is it a requirement for an enthusiast to have to drive a manual?

Even in this forum Ive seen people trashing A/T drivers, or simply looking down on them (a few recent threads can reinforce my statement).

Sure, if people like driving M/T, by all means do, but I dont see why they need to hate A/T cars. We like our cars just as much as you do.

I do understand that driving an MT in traffic is a pain, so I understand why people living in LA etc. get an AT. I certainly don't hate AT owners.

However, BMW is after all, "the ultimate driving machine" so to some extent, it begs the question "why buy a BMW car with an AT?"

A lot of BMW AT owners like to brag about what a great performance vehicle they drive etc. and those comments seem so ironic when they mention that they own an AT. This is especially true of the owners of M cars (not SUVs) or people that track their cars.

In the sport compact world, most of the performance models (Civic Si, Subaru WRX/STI, Mazda Speed 3, etc.) are ONLY available in MT (Subaru is available with a DCT starting in 2015). If you want the performance, you have to be able to drive it as an MT.