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Diesel Placebo Effect
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01-18-2011, 01:27 PM | #45 | ||
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I don't think anyone is saying a vehicle "needs" it - just that it might work out cheaper than, say, six new injectors, or a replacement DPF. |
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01-18-2011, 01:29 PM | #46 | |
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01-18-2011, 01:41 PM | #48 |
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Shadow - has any DPF or injector failure been attributed to not using super diesel? Serious question. I haven't heard anything about it and again if it was a fact, the fuel companies would lap it up!
I have looked at several modern marine diesel engines recently - high performance (2 x Volvos 330bhp each) and low performance but super rugged (Perkins 180bhp on a 30 tonne motorsailor) but no, not many bus engines. They don't tend to be very high performance... Anyway a few opinions and good to discuss the points without descending into the all too regular slanging matches. If anyone does find any hard and fast facts (not from 5th gear...) then do post them up - always keen to read that kind of stuff. |
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01-18-2011, 02:07 PM | #49 |
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I only ever use Shell fuel because i believe it is of a higher quality to supermarket diesel for example.
I care about the cetane rating of the fuel i put in, i want a fuel that ignites easily to burn as much fuel as possible especially with NOX re-circulation where NOX gasses typically burns cooler than oxygen leaving excess soot as the fuel doesn't burn as completely. As for v-power diesel i don't notice any difference, i'm not looking for a difference which is why i'm probably not finding it. Shell fuel save which typically has a higher cetane rating gets my money, the performance is just as good. I put v-power in about once a month because of it's additional benefits. I believe the stock additives which are classed as "detergents" should theoretically help break down, loosen or even clean the soot deposits that may be building up on the nozzles etc. The increased lubricity of the v-power fuel should also help lubricate the pump. I'm sure they cannot claim these benefits without proof, so i trust them in that, but just once a month. |
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01-18-2011, 02:23 PM | #50 |
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Briers - I stick to Shell too mainly because its my nearest filling station!
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01-18-2011, 02:45 PM | #51 | |
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I'm not sure what sort of proof anyone can provide, it we don't want to do our own controlled and verified testing. We seem to want to ignore the vast amount of testing the fuel companies put into their R&D. It seems when they post results we scoff and say 'snake oil'. Just watch the online video of BP's development of the BP Ultimate fuels and see how much testing is involved.
Here's a simple test on a Jag' diesel, but a bit more in gear acceleration and a quieter engine isn't proof is it? Just someone having a go, like FifthGear. http://www.caranddriving.com/feature...20ultimate.pdf We had all this same scepticism about the petrol fuels, until there were a few dyno tests on different performance engines, and guys at Thorney Motor Sport sort of took in on themselves to prove the fuels did work, when the doubters said it was all anecdotal. Even guys like Dr Wolfgang Schneider are "only marketing the stuff", many will say. Quote:
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01-18-2011, 03:07 PM | #52 | |
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On the subject of marine engines, I know very little about them - for example do they make use of EGR or similar for emissions control? I would have also thought that EGR valves might also benefit from cleaner burning fuel. All the info I could find was from MAN talking about SERIOUS (10 MW output) engines. |
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01-18-2011, 03:29 PM | #53 |
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Here's one of the examples of where that MTU marine diesel from my earlier pic is used:
http://www.militaryfactory.com/image...n%20at%20speed As an FYI, if the engine in a naval ship goes really fubar, they are normally removed by cutting a hole in the side of the ship to get it out. |
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01-18-2011, 03:47 PM | #54 | |
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running on conventional diesel fuel detained us for 9.3 seconds but when running on Ultimate the increment was dispatched in 8.9 seconds I may have to start putting in BP Ultimate in again....then will try the fuelsave test. Oh hang on, BP Ult is 137 near me... One question that always bugs me with Diesels - how long do they take to adapt to the "Super" Diesel fuel? (With my Impreza it was a whole tank, so I never ever put normal unleaded in, as it would take another tank of optimax before i got the benefit back...)
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01-18-2011, 04:40 PM | #55 |
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01-18-2011, 05:03 PM | #56 | |
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If BP Ultimate is too costly buy some Supermarket fuel and add Millers to it. Or just use Fuelsave as it's also 55-58 cetane typically. *If anyone knows better then I'd like to know. |
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01-18-2011, 05:08 PM | #57 | |
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01-18-2011, 05:10 PM | #58 | |||
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All sorts in my filing system and on the computers. But finding internet links is often more difficult.
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I see it this way, most of us have depreciation on these cars of £100 a wek or more. £1 - £2 a week extra for fuel on my mileage is nothing, as some is gained in improved mpg anyway. HighlandPete |
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01-18-2011, 05:18 PM | #59 | |
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If you look at these measurements of Millers, you'll see that peak torque and power were produced about 500rpm lower than with std fuel. What isn't clear is whether the power and torque drops off earlier, but it's of no consequence to normal everyday driving IMO. |
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01-18-2011, 05:22 PM | #60 |
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Which; Fuelsave or Millers? Millers has a very good detergent pack, which is allegedly very similar to what BP use in Ultimate. I don't know what shell put in Fuelsave but I'd hazard a guess that it's better than Supermarket fuel but not as good as their own V-Power as this seems to be it's USP.
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01-18-2011, 05:42 PM | #61 | |
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I am going to give BP Ulitmate a go and see how it goes. |
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01-19-2011, 02:53 AM | #62 |
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Willing to give Millers a go. Anyone know which is the right one for a 335d?
Looks this has replaced "Power Sport 4" - http://www.millersoils.net/M3_cgi/mi...otive&cart_id= Might give it a go and see if I notice any difference. TBH if it keeps the engine genuinely cleaner, it's no bad thing. Last edited by Em135eye; 01-19-2011 at 03:19 AM.. |
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01-19-2011, 03:17 AM | #63 |
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How much is a bottle of millers?
If the price difference between regular and super is 5p, then if you bang in 60litres you're talking a difference of £3 at the pumps....probably cheaper than a bottle of the additives?? |
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01-19-2011, 03:36 AM | #64 | ||
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Use FuelSave when I cant or don't want to use BP Ult (which has mostly since FuelSave came out! Also due to locality of cheap shell vs trip out to get BP Ult. Quote:
Good points on costs...thanks for reminding me how much I am loosing on depr The cost differentiation is around 7-10p though between FuelSave and BP Ult around me
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01-19-2011, 03:40 AM | #65 | |
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...esp if anything happens and BMW can tell you have used an additive. Be good to hear your findings though mate
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01-19-2011, 03:42 AM | #66 | |
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Shell posh fuel is around 7p more a litre here, a tank is 60 litres so £4.20p per fill up or £42 for ten fill ups. I'm actually more convinced by Millers than I am by BP and Shell's claims. For no real reason. Pretty scientific huh?! TMP - no warranty left on mine (and 100% owned) so I can do what the hell I want with it! |
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