[CitizenKane]

I've posted before about being underwhelmed by the power of my 320d. But today was probably the starkest example of it so far. I was driving behind one of my mates in a Mk6 Golf 2.0 TDi (which according to Wikipedia has a 0-60 time of about 10.7 seconds) and at times I honestly felt like it was an effort to keep up with him. We were on small roads with lots of traffic lights so we never really opened up, but his car just seemed a lot nippier and I found myself having to rev harder and more often than I would've expected to keep up.

I know I know, the 320d is not a fast car, and in hindsight this is not something I should be surprised about. But at the time of buying I considered the fuel economy and lower tax and insurance costs, etc. as higher priorities than I do now. I just feel like I need something more powerful now.

So my question is do I either (1) stick with the 320d and try to get more power out of it with an ecu remap, and maybe a dpf delete, etc.?; or (2) stop kidding myself and just trade my car in for a 330 or 335?

My car is a late LCI (2013) with very low mileage (around 33k) so should still have a fair amount of value left it if I was to go for option 2. The problem is I got my car on a 5 year hire-purchase, which I'm only 1 year into now, so trading might be a bit tricky.

Any thoughts welcome!

[Blueeyesredpanda]

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

I've posted before about being underwhelmed by the power of my 320d. But today was probably the starkest example of it so far. I was driving behind one of my mates in a Mk6 Golf 2.0 TDi (which according to Wikipedia has a 0-60 time of about 10.7 seconds) and at times I honestly felt like it was an effort to keep up with him. We were on small roads with lots of traffic lights so we never really opened up, but his car just seemed a lot nippier and I found myself having to rev harder and more often than I would've expected to keep up.

I know I know, the 320d is not a fast car, and in hindsight this is not something I should be surprised about. But at the time of buying I considered the fuel economy and lower tax and insurance costs, etc. as higher priorities than I do now. I just feel like I need something more powerful now.

So my question is do I either (1) stick with the 320d and try to get more power out of it with an ecu remap, and maybe a dpf delete, etc.?; or (2) stop kidding myself and just trade my car in for a 330 or 335?

My car is a late LCI (2013) with very low mileage (around 33k) so should still have a fair amount of value left it if I was to go for option 2. The problem is I got my car on a 5 year hire-purchase, which I'm only 1 year into now, so trading might be a bit tricky.

Any thoughts welcome!

new car

[ndj]

Originally Posted by Blueeyesredpanda

new car

+1

[Doofus]

The chances are he was absolutely ragging his car too, so whilst you feel like you had to rev higher than normal just to keep up, he may well have been doing the same, if not, more. Perhaps he's denied doing so, but I'd guess that's exactly what he did, haha.

Edit: Had you been able to open it up a bit with longer stretches of road, then the 320d would have smoked him, imo.

Don't get too disheartened.

[Digitalize]

At 33k get yourself a remap.

Gains seem pretty decent from just a map.

http://www.evolveautomotive.com/evol...d-177-bhp.html

[CitizenKane]

Originally Posted by Doofus

The chances are he was absolutely ragging his car too, so whilst you feel like you had to rev higher than normal just to keep up, he may well have been doing the same, if not, more. Perhaps he's denied doing so, but I'd guess that's exactly what he did, haha.

Edit: Had you been able to open it up a bit with longer stretches of road, then the 320d would have smoked him, imo.

Don't get too disheartened.

Thanks mate, you are probably right, but I still feel the car just requires that bit more effort to get going than I would like

My previous car was a 2002 Mk4 Golf GTi and it felt faster, despite having less power and slower quoted acceleration times, but I suppose that shouldn't be a surprise either as that is the nature of hot-hatches.

[CitizenKane]

Originally Posted by Digitalize

At 33k get yourself a remap.

Gains seem pretty decent from just a map.

http://www.evolveautomotive.com/evol...d-177-bhp.html

Hmm, those numbers are interesting, particularly as they are for the 177bhp engine whereas mine is the 184bhp. I have always been reluctant to do anything to my car that isn't BMW approved so I had looked into getting the performance kit, but I was put off by the fact that I was being quoted ?1,300-1,500 for it and it seems to only give about +20bhp. Perhaps an aftermarket remap is the way to go, for now...

[BMW_fun]

I would also suggest to put the car on Dyno stend and check the power. Maybe You have some problems with any sensor or boost leak, etc. and that's why Your car feels underpowered. We had one 320d that has a leaky intercooler (even thought it was not visible) and also leaky charge pipe (it was oily). Car showed about 20kw less on dyno compared to stock.

[Digitalize]

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

Hmm, those numbers are interesting, particularly as they are for the 177bhp engine whereas mine is the 184bhp. I have always been reluctant to do anything to my car that isn't BMW approved so I had looked into getting the performance kit, but I was put off by the fact that I was being quoted ?1,300-1,500 for it and it seems to only give about +20bhp. Perhaps an aftermarket remap is the way to go, for now...

I'm not sure what changes were made between those two engines, so the after figure may be the same if it was just a software change from BMW.

[makkan00]

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

I've posted before about being underwhelmed by the power of my 320d. But today was probably the starkest example of it so far. I was driving behind one of my mates in a Mk6 Golf 2.0 TDi (which according to Wikipedia has a 0-60 time of about 10.7 seconds) and at times I honestly felt like it was an effort to keep up with him. We were on small roads with lots of traffic lights so we never really opened up, but his car just seemed a lot nippier and I found myself having to rev harder and more often than I would've expected to keep up.

I know I know, the 320d is not a fast car, and in hindsight this is not something I should be surprised about. But at the time of buying I considered the fuel economy and lower tax and insurance costs, etc. as higher priorities than I do now. I just feel like I need something more powerful now.

So my question is do I either (1) stick with the 320d and try to get more power out of it with an ecu remap, and maybe a dpf delete, etc.?; or (2) stop kidding myself and just trade my car in for a 330 or 335?

My car is a late LCI (2013) with very low mileage (around 33k) so should still have a fair amount of value left it if I was to go for option 2. The problem is I got my car on a 5 year hire-purchase, which I'm only 1 year into now, so trading might be a bit tricky.

Any thoughts welcome!

Few things for you to consider...
1- is remap worth risking the warranty if you have? How about tunning box?
2- do you have additional money to cover the difference b/w 4-6 pots?


Personally, I will invest into a decent tunning box so you can revert the things when it goes to bmw for service. Most boxes come with loop connector so you take the tunning box out and put the loop connector which means car is back to standard mode.

I have tried DTUK and TDI tunning boxes and both have served me really well.

We have two N47 (184 variant) and one is RWD and other is AWD.

RWD has tunning box with potential 220-230 BHP according to TDI tunning box and it defo feels like it has that power. There is significant difference in the acceleration, mid range torque and high end speed.

I consider AWD n47 without tunning box as slow and lethargic. However other one is a different story.

We took both cars to Europe recently and on autobahn, AWD Topped at 120mph whereas RWD Topped at 145 mph. I do not anticipate that the difference is entirely due to AWD car being heavier, its more to do with tunning box.


I would suggest you to look at tunning boxes as they can be taken out and sold if you sell the car or if you do not like the car. Before somebody points out that they damage the engines then its worth of considering that engine of your car is covered if you buy brand new box from the reputable companies.
Also, I have done nearly 15k with a tunning box with zero issues.

Other than that you may need to flash your gearbox. XHP (if I spelled it correctly) has released different variants of gearbox remaps. Although I have not tried that but gone for Alpina flash, I can confirm that there is reasonable difference in shifting. Car screams like a bitch (as gear shifts at higher rpm) however it has improved the acceleration.

If you are still not satisfied after that then you can go for 6 pot engine.

[Doofus]

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

Thanks mate, you are probably right, but I still feel the car just requires that bit more effort to get going than I would like

My previous car was a 2002 Mk4 Golf GTi and it felt faster, despite having less power and slower quoted acceleration times, but I suppose that shouldn't be a surprise either as that is the nature of hot-hatches.

Hatchbacks always feel nippier, I feel. Even when I get into my little brother's Ford KA, it shocks me how nippy it feels compared to my 325d, but it's all down to the size of the car making it feel different at lower speeds. In reality, our BMWs are a lot quicker and more powerful but due to the extreme comfort of it, and the size, it tricks us into feeling otherwise.

But yeah, if you want more power, you want more power, lol.

[McPikie]

Originally Posted by makkan00

Few things for you to consider...
1- is remap worth risking the warranty if you have? How about tunning box?
2- do you have additional money to cover the difference b/w 4-6 pots?


Personally, I will invest into a decent tunning box so you can revert the things when it goes to bmw for service. Most boxes come with loop connector so you take the tunning box out and put the loop connector which means car is back to standard mode.

I have tried DTUK and TDI tunning boxes and both have served me really well.

We have two N47 (184 variant) and one is RWD and other is AWD.

RWD has tunning box with potential 220-230 BHP according to TDI tunning box and it defo feels like it has that power. There is significant difference in the acceleration, mid range torque and high end speed.

I consider AWD n47 without tunning box as slow and lethargic. However other one is a different story.

We took both cars to Europe recently and on autobahn, AWD Topped at 120mph whereas RWD Topped at 145 mph. I do not anticipate that the difference is entirely due to AWD car being heavier, its more to do with tunning box.


I would suggest you to look at tunning boxes as they can be taken out and sold if you sell the car or if you do not like the car. Before somebody points out that they damage the engines then its worth of considering that engine of your car is covered if you buy brand new box from the reputable companies.
Also, I have done nearly 15k with a tunning box with zero issues.

Other than that you may need to flash your gearbox. XHP (if I spelled it correctly) has released different variants of gearbox remaps. Although I have not tried that but gone for Alpina flash, I can confirm that there is reasonable difference in shifting. Car screams like a bitch (as gear shifts at higher rpm) however it has improved the acceleration.

If you are still not satisfied after that then you can go for 6 pot engine.

This in a nutshell. I put a tuning box from DTUK on my M47 320d and it made a definite difference

[tadaska]

Find out why it is so slow, maybe it is slower than it should be and just needs some tlc. I haven't raced a diesel golf but I did race a 2.0 petrol some months ago on a dual carriageway and we were neck and neck until it got pretty fast and then he started edging ahead and I gave up.

[CitizenKane]

Originally Posted by tadaska

Find out why it is so slow, maybe it is slower than it should be and just needs some tlc. I haven't raced a diesel golf but I did race a 2.0 petrol some months ago on a dual carriageway and we were neck and neck until it got pretty fast and then he started edging ahead and I gave up.

I would expect that if it was a GTi, or even a GTD (which seems to have almost identical performance figures to the e9x 320d), but not otherwise!

It may be that there is something wrong with my car but I hadn't really considered this because I only got it serviced about 2 months ago :

[tadaska]

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

I would expect that if it was a GTi, or even a GTD (which seems to have almost identical performance figures to the e9x 320d), but not otherwise!

It may be that there is something wrong with my car but I hadn't really considered this because I only got it serviced about 2 months ago :

I don't know what could be wrong with your car but when I bought mine it had been serviced but I wasn't happy with how the engine performed. So I did some diy on it - EGR was very clogged, intake manifold was very clogged and flaps were stuck. Also thermostat was faulty. After I was done it felt like a different engine. Of course yours being a lot younger might not have those same problems but there might be something that needs fixing

[davealfa11]

I wouldn't assume the golf was stock or you have an issue with yours that's lost power in time

[mrbubba]

If you have finance on the car, i would do a map first, they are cheap compared to buying a new car!

[Smokey33]

A 320d is slow. You can spend more money on it. But its still going to be a slow car.

[CitizenKane]

Originally Posted by Smokey33

A 320d is slow. You can spend more money on it. But its still going to be a slow car.

Well that's part of my question I guess, because I haven't been able to find anything online to suggest what performance gains (e.g. 0-60) might be expected from a good remap. Stock 320 does it in 7.5 seconds, which yes I agree is slow. If a good map with +35/40bhp brought this down to 7 seconds then I'd still be inclined to call it a slow car, but if it brought it closer to 6.5 seconds then I'd be changing my tune a bit (because if it would still be considered a slow car with those numbers then, for example, a Mk7 GTi would also be a slow car, which I'm sure many people would argue against). Of course this is all relative and all of these numbers are slow compared to say an m3 or 335i.

But I am interested to know what kind of gains in terms of acceleration could actually be achieved from a good remap. Does anyone have any experience on this?

[smuler]

My first BMW was an old 325 about same sort of power as yours; and your car ain't slow, I daily drive a new X1 with that sort of power.

BUT going back I tired of my 325's power and having tried various BMWs to go to the next level nothing less than a 335i felt enough.

If you're going brand new, guess it's the 340i.

You can't map a 320d to that sort of level so you would be wasting your time.

Comparisons in real life are a funny thing, in my X1 I beat a Fiesta ST. No way on paper should I , but it happened. Don't beat yourself up about the Golf, enjoy what is still a fast car compared to the "sh eye T " that dominate our roads and then get something new

[CitizenKane]

Originally Posted by smuler

My first BMW was an old 325 about same sort of power as yours; and your car ain't slow, I daily drive a new X1 with that sort of power.

BUT going back I tired of my 325's power and having tried various BMWs to go to the next level nothing less than a 335i felt enough.

If you're going brand new, guess it's the 340i.

You can't map a 320d to that sort of level so you would be wasting your time.

Comparisons in real life are a funny thing, in my X1 I beat a Fiesta ST. No way on paper should I , but it happened. Don't beat yourself up about the Golf, enjoy what is still a fast car compared to the "sh eye T " that dominate our roads and then get something new

Interesting post, thanks. I suppose a lot of this is down to perspective and it's hard to gauge how much effort the driver of the other car is putting into the speed they're going relative to yours. You've also touched on another concern of mine which is that perhaps I would never be happy with whatever I ended up going for (if I go for a remap I'd be wishing I went for a 330d - if I go for a 330d I'd be wishing I went for a 335d - if I go for a 335d I'd be wishing I went for a 335i, and so on).

I just looked up the rough performance figures across the e92 engine range (on Wikipedia) and I guess it's worth remembering that an LCI 320d is only 0.9 seconds slower to 60mph than a pre-lci 330d, and only 1.6 seconds slower to 60mph than a 335d. It's not actually that big a discrepancy on paper.

What's also interesting about these numbers which I never really knew before is that apparently an LCI 330d does 0-60 in 6.1 seconds, which is only 0.1s slower than a 335d? Obviously 0-60 isn't the only metric and presumably the 335d would push on faster from that point, but still.

[blueh88]

Mate, I have been in this boat many a time! At the end of the day, each situation is very different and every car performs differently. A "slower" car might be faster than a "faster" car in a certain situation. You mention you never really opened up due to roads etc. That there is the main thing to note in my personal opinion.

One thing to note is about power/torque delivery too. You mention your 2002 Mk4 Golf. That has a much peakier torque spike due to its 8V engine which makes it feel "faster" as you get a huge lump of torque all at once whereas your 320D is much more linear so will feel slower as it is more refined.

Anyway, I would definitely recommend a tuning box first. Had a Mk7 GTD with one and it was amazing! If you aren't impressed after this then I would be amazed lol.

Also - the Mk6 Golf, there are 2 versions, a 110bhp or 140bhp. The 140bhp isn't that slow tbh and from experience they put out more than 140 if tested on a dyno.