[EuroCarsOnline]

Originally Posted by lawgone

Uh oh, this has me worried now. I just placed an order on Friday for 328xi w/ sport...I got sport only for the seats. It was an $850 option. I put down the $1000 deposit and then the sales manager came down and said he was having problems ordering the sport package...it wasn't showing as available...only the M. They said they'd call Monday when they were able to place the order.

I hope BMW isn't enacting this change early. Their website still allows you to add sport which comes with ALL SEASON tires. (Performance tires are an addditional fee.) It would be a waste for me to get the M package and its performance tires on an xdrive. If I wanted to worry about needing to get winter tires, I wouldn't have even bothered with the xdrive option.

The sales manager should be up to speed on the sales bulletins and should have explained the production cutoff for the sport package. The information provided here about the March production was available well before this past Friday. You will need a February build for the regular sport package (still showing at bmwusa.com) which is a very slim chance at this point.

Regards,
David

[lawgone]

Great. I guess I should be expecting an interesting phone call tomorrow. Thing is, there is no where to even see the style 152 wheels to make a decision on whether I want to proceed or not. Kind of screwy.

[hommedefromage]

Any ideas about changes to the color choices for the MSport?

[lawgone]

Originally Posted by hommedefromage

Any ideas about changes to the color choices for the MSport?

Seems like no one knows yet. My SA said he'd call me in a couple days once they get pricing and everything. I'm starting to wonder if BMW wants my business. Very inefficient process. If you're going to stop allowing people to place orders a month before the production cycle changes, at least let them know what the pricing will be on the new ones. I'd imagine there are lots of people going to dealers encountering this same issue.

[mr_milo]

Originally Posted by simianspeedster

I think there's a lot of confusion over what the Sport and M-Sport packages add in the way of suspension changes depending on the 3 Series model. Here's my understanding of how it all breaks down:

328i Sedan, 335i Sedan, 328i Wagon -- All of these models come with the standard suspension in base form. The same Sport Suspension comes standard with either the Sport Package or the M-Sport Packages.

328i Coupe & 335i Coupe -- Both coupes come with the Sport Suspension standard, so while the Sport Package and M-Sport add other goodies, there are no suspension changes included. In short, all RWD coupes have the same suspension regardless of package.

328xi Sedan, 328xi Coupe, 335xi Sedan, 335xi Coupe & 328xi Wagon -- None of these xDrive AWD models are available with the Sport Suspension regardless of whether they are purchased in base form or with the Sport or M-Sport Packages. I believe all xDrive AWD 3-Series models come with a steel suspension that is built to be more rugged than the largely aluminum Sport Suspension because AWD cars may be driven in tougher conditions (think frost heaves, etc.)

I'm fairly certain this is all accurate, so it's easy to see why people would be confused with all the variations in play. If any of this is incorrect, please chime in. The Sport and M-Sport Packages add wheels, tires, seats and trim details to all 3 Series models, but whether or not they include the Sport Suspension depends heavily on the model and drive wheels.

Edit: I didn;t look to see what the permutatations are for the convertible and diesel models (dang, there are a lot of 3 Series models!) -- maybe someone else can fill in those details.

-SimianSpeedster

Is this true? Do the coupes (and therefore I assume the Convertibles) come stock with the sports suspension? This could make my ordering decision a LOT easier since I can't get the sport package and don't want to pay for the M-Sport package. Are there any thread references to this info?

[lawgone]

Originally Posted by mr_milo

Is this true? Do the coupes (and therefore I assume the Convertibles) come stock with the sports suspension? This could make my ordering decision a LOT easier since I can't get the sport package and don't want to pay for the M-Sport package. Are there any thread references to this info?

Yes, coupes come with sport suspension and steering wheel but not the seats or tires. If you don't get the M you won't get sport seats (unless they change that. No one really knows yet.)

[mr_milo]

Well I decided to check RealOEM.com and found some interesting stuff. It seems that on a 3' E93 LCI 328 USA car with a build date of 9/2010 there is no difference between the standard and sport package suspension although the M-Sport package does get a different set of struts.

So at least with this example it seem on the convertible the stock & sport are the same but the M-sport is different. Am I wrong here?

[simianspeedster]

Originally Posted by mr_milo

Is this true? Do the coupes (and therefore I assume the Convertibles) come stock with the sports suspension? This could make my ordering decision a LOT easier since I can't get the sport package and don't want to pay for the M-Sport package. Are there any thread references to this info?

I've seen a few references to this over the years. Here's one thread that's from 2007, but still on point. http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/arc.../t-207076.html I'm sure others can confirm this or correct it as necessary.

Also, you can go to the BMW USA homepage and look at the features listed for each model -- you will clearly see that some cars come with the Sport Suspension standard and others don't. The build configurator details on the Sport Package also change depending on the model -- some reference the Sport Suspension and othes don't because it's either already standard (coupes) or not available at all (xDrive models).

[simianspeedster]

Originally Posted by mr_milo

Well I decided to check RealOEM.com and found some interesting stuff. It seems that on a 3' E93 LCI 328 USA car with a build date of 9/2010 there is no difference between the standard and sport package suspension although the M-Sport package does get a different set of struts.

So at least with this example it seem on the convertible the stock & sport are the same but the M-sport is different. Am I wrong here?

I'm not saying this is wrong for certain because I'm not familiar with the convertibles, but this strikes me as being wrong. If this were true, the convertible would be the only model where the M-Sport Package adds suspension changes that are not on the car standard or as part of the Sport Package.

According to the BMW USA website, the 328 and 335 convertibles are just like the RWD sedans: the base car comes with the standard suspension and the same Sport Suspension is added with either the Sport or M-Sport packages.

[simianspeedster]

I forgot to add: make sure you double-check with your dealer. I'm a BMW nut, but I don't have access to any more information than the general public. Others on this board might have access to ordering systems, etc. that can confirm all of this.

[R12ax7]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Style 152

Attachment 482282

I know these are indeed the Style 152 wheels, I just can not envision BMW putting "Individual" wheels on an "M-Sport" package. There were a lot of wheel styles thrown around in that press release/post; I have to think (or at least hope) its a typo somewhere.

[mr_milo]

Originally Posted by simianspeedster

I'm not saying this is wrong for certain because I'm not familiar with the convertibles, but this strikes me as being wrong. If this were true, the convertible would be the only model where the M-Sport Package adds suspension changes that are not on the car standard or as part of the Sport Package.

According to the BMW USA website, the 328 and 335 convertibles are just like the RWD sedans: the base car comes with the standard suspension and the same Sport Suspension is added with either the Sport or M-Sport packages.

Hey thanks a lot for opening my eyes. I always thought that the coupe and convertibles had the same equipment / options. Looking at the BMWUSA website (for the coupes) shows me very clearly that they don't. As you mentioned the sport suspension isn't listed on the coupes but it is listed on the convertibles. Also, it's listed under both sport & M-sport so I am really wondering about how accurate the RealOEM website is.

Thanks for opening my eyes!

[buggy4cars]

This may explain why they're pushing the M Sport Packages and discontinuing the regular Sport Package. Scroll down to paragraph #4.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/51822...enges-for-2011

[Hound Passer]

Originally Posted by hommedefromage

Any ideas about changes to the color choices for the MSport?

I'm assuming the colors remain the same. Wouldn't they be announced in the same bulletin that discussed all of the other March changes?

Originally Posted by buggy4cars

This may explain why they're pushing the M Sport Packages and discontinuing the regular Sport Package. Scroll down to paragraph #4.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/51822...enges-for-2011

Actually that just has me asking more questions, not answering old ones. If the M package is that popular then BMW doesn't need to guide customers to it -- but that is what they are doing by making it the sole route to factory installed sport seats.

Now if no one was buying ZSP (for whatever reason) then I could understand the rationale for deleting it. But I think this thread as well as others around the Web demonstrate that a lot of people chose that option too. So for me the question remains why ZSP got the boot.

[simianspeedster]

I think the rationales for the Sport Package deletion change are obvious: 1) higher selling prices and profit margins, and 2) fewer individual options means fewer strange option combos sitting on dealer lots (or coming in on lease returns) that affect "sellability" and resale values.

Every car manufacturer has to make sure their base MSRP is competitive with other cars in the class. A low starting MSRP also allows them to advertise and otherwise promote a car at a significantly lower entry point than the average selling price of most cars that leave dealer lots. Sure, the 335i Coupe starts around $44K, but how many of you purchased a new 335i Coupe that stickered for less than $50K?

From there, manufacturers have every incentive to offer you factory options that you might otherwise purchase on the aftermarket. Why let 3rd parties make money on upgraded stereos, nav systems, body kits, upgraded suspension and bigger wheels and tires when the manufacturer can make that incremental revenue up front? There's a reason an integrated nav system costs $2,000+ and an aftermarket system costs $500 or less -- BMW and other manufacturers bet you're willing to pay a premium for integrated systems that look and work like they were designed for that car alone.

As always, it's about money and calculated bets. BMW is betting that the 3 Series cars will have a higher average selling price and a higher average profit margin by making this change. How? They're betting that most buyers who would make the stretch for the Sport Package will stretch a little further for the M-Sport (especially when the dealer phrases it in terms of "it's only an extra $xx per month"). And, while some people won't stretch, they're betting that the extra profit and revenue from those that do will more than offset those that don't.

Manufacturers also have an incentive to box in your options to keep the cars more homogeneous. Most options used to be a la carte, but giant option packages are taking over. Audi re-jiggers their option packages from time to time and they're basically offering 3 big packages now that are almost all inclusive with fewer a la carte choices: Premium, Premium Plus and Prestige. Expect the same from BMW over time.

Look at the color options for another example: starting in MY2011, a ton of non-mainstream color went Priority 1, so when you go to dealer lots, you're basically going to see a lot of silver, grey, black, white and blue cars. Again, I think this has to do with making sure dealers get cars that will sell and that resale values are kept high so BMW can maintain their aggressive lease residuals.

At least BMW doesn't take these limitations to the extremes of some of the Japanese manufacturers. Have you ever speced out an Acura TL? Basically, there are two big package options, then a choice of FWD/AWD and manual/automatic. That's it. The color options are even more limiting -- with some exterior colors, you are only allowed a single interior color!

Hey, I went with M-Sport because I thought the add-ons were worth the asking price, but at least BMW allowed me to order a car that I really wanted at every level with nothing I didn't. Some may miss the Sport Package, but BMW still lets you pick and choose an awful lot of options.

[lawgone]

Originally Posted by simianspeedster

I think the rationales for the Sport Package deletion change are obvious: 1) higher selling prices and profit margins, and 2) fewer individual options means fewer strange option combos sitting on dealer lots (or coming in on lease returns) that affect "sellability" and resale values.

Every car manufacturer has to make sure their base MSRP is competitive with other cars in the class. A low starting MSRP also allows them to advertise and otherwise promote a car at a significantly lower entry point than the average selling price of most cars that leave dealer lots. Sure, the 335i Coupe starts around $44K, but how many of you purchased a new 335i Coupe that stickered for less than $50K?

From there, manufacturers have every incentive to offer you factory options that you might otherwise purchase on the aftermarket. Why let 3rd parties make money on upgraded stereos, nav systems, body kits, upgraded suspension and bigger wheels and tires when the manufacturer can make that incremental revenue up front? There's a reason an integrated nav system costs $2,000+ and an aftermarket system costs $500 or less -- BMW and other manufacturers bet you're willing to pay a premium for integrated systems that look and work like they were designed for that car alone.

As always, it's about money and calculated bets. BMW is betting that the 3 Series cars will have a higher average selling price and a higher average profit margin by making this change. How? They're betting that most buyers who would make the stretch for the Sport Package will stretch a little further for the M-Sport (especially when the dealer phrases it in terms of "it's only an extra $xx per month"). And, while some people won't stretch, they're betting that the extra profit and revenue from those that do will more than offset those that don't.

Manufacturers also have an incentive to box in your options to keep the cars more homogeneous. Most options used to be a la carte, but giant option packages are taking over. Audi re-jiggers their option packages from time to time and they're basically offering 3 big packages now that are almost all inclusive with fewer a la carte choices: Premium, Premium Plus and Prestige. Expect the same from BMW over time.

Look at the color options for another example: starting in MY2011, a ton of non-mainstream color went Priority 1, so when you go to dealer lots, you're basically going to see a lot of silver, grey, black, white and blue cars. Again, I think this has to do with making sure dealers get cars that will sell and that resale values are kept high so BMW can maintain their aggressive lease residuals.

At least BMW doesn't take these limitations to the extremes of some of the Japanese manufacturers. Have you ever speced out an Acura TL? Basically, there are two big package options, then a choice of FWD/AWD and manual/automatic. That's it. The color options are even more limiting -- with some exterior colors, you are only allowed a single interior color!

Hey, I went with M-Sport because I thought the add-ons were worth the asking price, but at least BMW allowed me to order a car that I really wanted at every level with nothing I didn't. Some may miss the Sport Package, but BMW still lets you pick and choose an awful lot of options.

One of the things that turned me off about Audi was they way they set up their packages. I liked how BMW let you pick and choose. I hope this doesn't become a thing of the past.

As for the Sport package delete, I understand it but think over time it will result in a loss UNLESS the package cost less than it does now. For example, on a 328xi the sport option was $875. The M option - $3,000. That's a steep jump.

[wrickem]

Originally Posted by buggy4cars

This may explain why they're pushing the M Sport Packages and discontinuing the regular Sport Package. Scroll down to paragraph #4.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/news/51822...enges-for-2011

Good find. I could tell you why M-Sport sales have risen so much though, it's because they made the E92 LCI front end so ugly compared to pre-LCI that most people who order their car order it with M-sport so they don't have to look at that front!

[renaultf1]

Originally Posted by wrickem

Good find. I could tell you why M-Sport sales have risen so much though, it's because they made the E92 LCI front end so ugly compared to pre-LCI that most people who order their car order it with M-sport so they don't have to look at that front!

See, that's funny...the only reason I DIDN'T order M-Sport was because I hate the front bumper of the M-Sport package. Each to their own...

[wrickem]

Originally Posted by renaultf1

See, that's funny...the only reason I DIDN'T order M-Sport was because I hate the front bumper of the M-Sport package. Each to their own...

But you have an E91, the LCI front that comes on them and E90's are beautiful the way they are

But you are right, each to their own

[tbracing]

This is very strange, all my friends cars nothing changed and my 335i goes into production this month and there have been no changes at all this year. Sport package and all are still available if you want it, the only thing that changes on the 2011 model list is the price (increased slightly by $200) all options and configurations have stayed the same with no wheel change

[lawgone]

Still waiting to hear from my SA as to what I can order and when. Very frustrating.

[Hound Passer]

Originally Posted by simianspeedster

I think the rationales for the Sport Package deletion change are obvious: 1) higher selling prices and profit margins, and 2) fewer individual options means fewer strange option combos sitting on dealer lots (or coming in on lease returns) that affect "sellability" and resale values.

Except that BMW's Mini has pages and pages of available individual options, so your explanation doesn't mesh well with BMW Groups view of limiting options. Also, in regard to preventing "strange options" sitting on dealer lots, what is strange about ZSP? Clearly there are many on this board that ordered ZSP over the M pkg before BMW changed the rules. And even if BMW considers it a "strange option" what is the real harm in keeping it as a Priority One option like automatic high beams. Some of us think the M panels are strange, especially for $1500 extra. Just saying.

Originally Posted by tbracing

This is very strange, all my friends cars nothing changed and my 335i goes into production this month and there have been no changes at all this year. Sport package and all are still available if you want it, the only thing that changes on the 2011 model list is the price (increased slightly by $200) all options and configurations have stayed the same with no wheel change

Only affects car production starting in March. Feb production cars are good to go as ordered. Also noticed your info says you are from Italy. I don't know if you have an Italian or U.S. model ordered but these changes only affect U.S. models AFAIK.