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[Kolyan2k]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Hey man, I've run all-season tires on my E90 for about 170,000 miles now. I've been able to get my 80-mile one-way commute down to 1 hour and 24 minutes (my best time) on all seasons; so, go do the math. And my commute has about 55 miles of (45 MPH) back roads and 25 miles of highway (though usually in stop and go traffic); back roads that you spend your nights dreaming about. So go ahead and spread all crap about all-season tires all you want on the internet. I know what works on my car. I've lived in the mid-Atlantic area my whole life and have driven over 1 million miles and I've never owned a set of dedicated Winter tires, and I've never had an accident in the snow. I used to be a professional courier and HAD to drive in all weather conditions.

And all I can do is laugh at your asinine statement about "too lazy to switch for my own safety or the safety of others" - FU bud. Are you seriously saying that all-season tires are a safety hazard and shouldn't be used in any season? Really? That is about the most asinine thing I've ever read on this forum. Go look at The Tire Rack's data on Summer, All-Season, and Winter tires and see how close they all are in dry-weather performance.

BTW, I can afford to buy a set of tires every month of the year if I wanted to, and I have a Rotory SPA010 lift in my garage and a full set of air tools (an Ingersol Rand 2131 impact gun to be specific) so I can change my wheels every day in 20 minutes if I needed to. So next time, write something when you know what you are talking about, or STFU.

I'm on my 7th set of tires in 6 years and 6 months so you can act like an ass, or realize other people have real experiences and real data to back it up.

i did look at tirerack, here it is with all data

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/....jsp?&ttid=103

"Conclusion:

While all-season tires MAY provide enough wintertime traction for drivers in areas of the country that only receive occasional light snow, Tire Rack feels THERE ISN'T a viable alternative to dedicated winter / snow tires if drivers expect to encounter deep or frequent slush, snow or ice." < and thats coming from people who SELL AS tires, so there is NO way they will or can tell you that AS tires are complete junk.

All data on tirerack website is based on tire category. So you cant compare data of AS tires to summer tires or winter. That is unless tirerack directly compared AS tires to Winter, which they did in article above.

YOU is just 1 stupid person out of 315000000 people in USA......not even worth the argument when majority on this forum use dedicated tires

[gary88]

Love my Blizzaks. Will be going back on pretty soon.



My wheels hold up pretty well to salt, after some wheel wax it wipes off really easy. I usually do it every night or two in the winter to keep it from building up.

[Kolyan2k]

sick of idiots.....

http://www.tirebuyer.com/education/a...717E3117.hash4

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/h...for-snow-tires

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/....jsp?&ttid=103

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=109

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...summer-9647443

http://www.edmunds.com/car-reviews/f...vs-summer.html

[galahad05]

Put my brand new Pirelli Sottozero series II on today. In the snow/slush/water.

[Dr. G]

I drove home on the highway on drag radials last friday at 4am LOL. It wasn't as dramatic as I expected as long as I took some precaution.

[raj55]

I would never drive in winter without winter tyres (friction winter tyres or spiked winter tyres), no matter what sort of car I have got (with front wheel drive, back wheel drive or 4 wheel drive). AND I would definitely not test the laws of physics or exceed my ability or the cars ability in winter. If you have slid off the road once before (because you had old winter tyres and were taking the curve too fast on icy winter road), you will understand what I am talking about. Never again. How people can motivate using all weather tyres and loosing that xtra security/grip that you get with winter tyres, and risk your and others life, just beats the hell out of me.
I use Nokian Rsi friction winter tyres in my E91 and I have never got stuck in snow or glided off the road in ice (having ESP helps too), despite the incline on my drive way.

AND one more thing, when people stop using common sense and risk their own and others' lives (which they have no right to), legislation has to step in. In Sweden Traffic law requires (and it is vigourously implemented) that all cars have winter tyres (friction or spiked winter tyres) during the winter months from 1st December to 31st March. Some years winter comes on early and the law clearly says if the road is icy, slippery, winter tyres should be used even during that time. This year the winter seems to have come on early and most have allready changed to winter tyres, even before the cumpulsory date of 1st December. You can not save on cost of winter tyres and risk people's lives. And having winter tyres means you even reduce the wear on your summer tyres, so it is not that bad financially.

So what a responsible government could do to encourage people to use winter tyres, (in wintery road areas) is to reduce the tax on these winter tyres so that people can afford them and having used winter tyres for a couple of years they would not want to go back to all weather during winter months. AND we would not have to sit here and motivate winter tyres for the sceptics, most of whom have probably never even tried winter tyres!

[Kolyan2k]

^ we are in US here. People are so uneducated, they simply don't even know what winter tires or summer tires are (except for enthusiasts)

People here buy SUVs and think its a solution for winter, and moreover some people don't even know that some SUVs are FWD, they are in strong believe that all SUV are AWD.

I told 2 different people that were buying FWD SUVs for their young daughters that they will be much safer with winter tires in winter.....they both didn't believe me and assured me SUV is much safer in snow. And those were adults in their 40s or 50s.......yes the ones that drove 20-30 years of their lives on All Season tires

You would be surprised how many SUVs are on the road here in Boston.....they are everywhere, and probably not ONE uses proper tires. And yes, I have seen many SUVs crashed during winter storms because of false confidence that people get.

[gary88]

Also in Germany it's illegal to drive without winter tires in snowy conditions (specifically you must have appropriate tires for whatever condition you're driving in). If you get in an accident without them most insurance companies won't pay out too. I really wish we could have a requirement like this in some US states. You can buy winter tires to improve your own performance snow/ice, but that will do nothing to stop the person on bald all-seasons behind you from plowing into you when they can't stop in time. For the most part, people here really are clueless when it comes to tires. Many think as long as they aren't visibly falling apart that they're good to go.

Living in Chicago I have tons of experience driving in snow and ice with a few different setups, specifically FWD w/all seasons, AWD w/all seasons, and RWD w/winter tires, and RWD + winter tires is absolutely no question the superior choice.

[The X Men]

Originally Posted by gary88

Also in Germany it's illegal to drive without winter tires in snowy conditions (specifically you must have appropriate tires for whatever condition you're driving in). If you get in an accident without them most insurance companies won't pay out too. I really wish we could have a requirement like this in some US states. You can buy winter tires to improve your own performance snow/ice, but that will do nothing to stop the person on bald all-seasons behind you from plowing into you when they can't stop in time. For the most part, people here really are clueless when it comes to tires. Many think as long as they aren't visibly falling apart that they're good to go.

Living in Chicago I have tons of experience driving in snow and ice with a few different setups, specifically FWD w/all seasons, AWD w/all seasons, and RWD w/winter tires, and RWD + winter tires is absolutely no question the superior choice.

The last thing we need is more government regulations, what if the government require every car to have AWD, it would add to safety just like snow tires, wouldnt you agree?
Most states' auto inspection requires a minimum tread depth to pass the safety inspection, a bald tire will not pass.
RWD with snow is better than AWD with AS in stopping power, but not climbing a hill or accelaration, AWD with snow is the superior choice. If you are really that concern about safety, you would have a AWD with snow for the winter.

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by The X Men

The last thing we need is more government regulations, what if the government require every car to have AWD, it would add to safety just like snow tires, wouldnt you agree?
Most states' auto inspection requires a minimum tread depth to pass the safety inspection, a bald tire will not pass.
RWD with snow is better than AWD with AS in stopping power, but not climbing a hill or accelaration, AWD with snow is the superior choice. If you are really that concern about safety, you would have a AWD with snow for the winter.

About 90% of all Mercs and about 99% of all Audis sold in Canada are AWD. BMW is catching up too.

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by gpb

If you use each set (winter/summer) proportionate to their tread life, then yes it's largely a wash ignoring the cost of twice-a-year mounting/balancing or buying a second set of rims. It *seems* to me that it's unlikely to work out exactly and you'd still experience a higher cost than going with AS tires. It'd depend on a lot of factors including ones driving style and how many months of the year one runs winter tires vs summer tires.

There's the additional factor that not everyone has storage space to keep a set of tires/wheels.

All I'm getting at is that I can see why someone would accept the less than optimum performance of AS tires. That doesn't mean its the right choice for all people or all situations, just like dedicated winter/summer sets aren't the right choice for all either. I imagine you'd get a confused look if you tried to buy a set of winter tires in Miami FL.


Personally I'll see how grip is this winter as it's my first BMW and I'm in Atlanta now where winter temps are substantially higher than Toronto and we rarely see snow stick to pavement. If I were still living in central New York State I'd have budgetted for a set of winter/snow tires & wheels and probably already have them installed.

A/S might be perfect for Atlanta.....little to no snow and cool but not frigid temps.

[335BBS]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Hey man, I've run all-season tires on my E90 for about 170,000 miles now. I've been able to get my 80-mile one-way commute down to 1 hour and 24 minutes (my best time) on all seasons; so, go do the math. And my commute has about 55 miles of (45 MPH) back roads and 25 miles of highway (though usually in stop and go traffic); back roads that you spend your nights dreaming about. So go ahead and spread all crap about all-season tires all you want on the internet. I know what works on my car. I've lived in the mid-Atlantic area my whole life and have driven over 1 million miles and I've never owned a set of dedicated Winter tires, and I've never had an accident in the snow. I used to be a professional courier and HAD to drive in all weather conditions.

And all I can do is laugh at your asinine statement about "too lazy to switch for my own safety or the safety of others" - FU bud. Are you seriously saying that all-season tires are a safety hazard and shouldn't be used in any season? Really? That is about the most asinine thing I've ever read on this forum. Go look at The Tire Rack's data on Summer, All-Season, and Winter tires and see how close they all are in dry-weather performance.

BTW, I can afford to buy a set of tires every month of the year if I wanted to, and I have a Rotory SPA010 lift in my garage and a full set of air tools (an Ingersol Rand 2131 impact gun to be specific) so I can change my wheels every day in 20 minutes if I needed to. So next time, write something when you know what you are talking about, or STFU.

I'm on my 7th set of tires in 6 years and 6 months so you can act like an ass, or realize other people have real experiences and real data to back it up.

We are all very impressed that you can afford to buy so many tires. All that we are saying is that dedicated winter tires are far better than A/S. Its a fact and has been documented many times. The fact that you havent bothered to try them and have not had a problem is unfortunate. Watch all the videos comparing stopping distances between A/S and winters. Can't be disputed. We didnt make this stuff up. Have a nice day.

[JimKW]

I'm older and have driven in snow with almost any drive car. When I was young we only had RWD cars and I can never remember being stuck. Always had winter tires on the rear back then, not all the way around.

Got my first 4WD drive vehicle in 1978, a Jeep Wagoneer and put snow tires all the way around my first winter. That thing was like a snow plow. I lived in the DC area at the time and we got about 30" of snow. I drove all around kind of opening roads for other cars before the snow plows cleared the roads.

Had a RWD 760 Volvo when I lived in Colorado. Put studded snow tires all the way around. It went like a 4WD truck in the snow, but what a pain on dry roads. Tires wore out in two seasons.

Had a FWD Subaru and several 850 Volvos with FWD. I've never had anything except AS radials on them and have done fine. But I keep an older SUV for bad days, but have done fine with AS radials in up to 3 or 4 inches of snow.

I think common sense and knowing how you car handles in snow is more important than what drive you have and what tires you have.

Here's how I taught all three of my kids to drive in snow. Take you car out into a snow covered open parking lot and play. Throw it into slides and figure out how to handle the car when it loses traction. It's fun and makes you know your car and how to handle it when it starts to slide.

We didn't have hardly any snow in Ohio last year, so I don't know how my BMW or my 4Runner do in the snow.

[gpb]

Originally Posted by The X Men

Most states' auto inspection requires a minimum tread depth to pass the safety inspection, a bald tire will not pass.

I was surprised to discover there are no safety inspections in Georgia. They do annual emissions tests, but it doesn't include any safety items. Run your bald tires 'til they blow out. (Police can ticket for equipment violations such as tires, but I don't know if they can pull you over just for that though).

Originally Posted by 335BBS

A/S might be perfect for Atlanta.....little to no snow and cool but not frigid temps.

True, but then we're into the same discussion for the other end of the spectrum; warm pavement grip in dry or wet conditions.
Maybe the solution is AS for winter use since I'd be concerned about chewing up true winter tires due to the temps being too high. Let me see how the OEM tires do for now.

Originally Posted by 335BBS

WWatch all the videos comparing stopping distances between A/S and winters.

Just a random thought -- just be careful to keep an eye on the guy behind you who probably doesn't have nearly the stopping ability!

[BMWWW]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Hey man, I've run all-season tires on my E90 for about 170,000 miles now. I've been able to get my 80-mile one-way commute down to 1 hour and 24 minutes (my best time) on all seasons; so, go do the math. And my commute has about 55 miles of (45 MPH) back roads and 25 miles of highway (though usually in stop and go traffic); back roads that you spend your nights dreaming about. So go ahead and spread all crap about all-season tires all you want on the internet. I know what works on my car. I've lived in the mid-Atlantic area my whole life and have driven over 1 million miles and I've never owned a set of dedicated Winter tires, and I've never had an accident in the snow. I used to be a professional courier and HAD to drive in all weather conditions.

And all I can do is laugh at your asinine statement about "too lazy to switch for my own safety or the safety of others" - FU bud. Are you seriously saying that all-season tires are a safety hazard and shouldn't be used in any season? Really? That is about the most asinine thing I've ever read on this forum. Go look at The Tire Rack's data on Summer, All-Season, and Winter tires and see how close they all are in dry-weather performance.

BTW, I can afford to buy a set of tires every month of the year if I wanted to, and I have a Rotory SPA010 lift in my garage and a full set of air tools (an Ingersol Rand 2131 impact gun to be specific) so I can change my wheels every day in 20 minutes if I needed to. So next time, write something when you know what you are talking about, or STFU.

I'm on my 7th set of tires in 6 years and 6 months so you can act like an ass, or realize other people have real experiences and real data to back it up.

Originally Posted by 335BBS

We are all very impressed that you can afford to buy so many tires. All that we are saying is that dedicated winter tires are far better than A/S. Its a fact and has been documented many times. The fact that you havent bothered to try them and have not had a problem is unfortunate. Watch all the videos comparing stopping distances between A/S and winters. Can't be disputed. We didnt make this stuff up. Have a nice day.

This has always been my end-all to all conversations about winter tires vs all-seasons--a least for Toronto folks. (I too can change tires in 20 minutes, but I do it without the luxury of a lift and IR guns. Can we swap?)

"Great, you can stick with all-seasons. However, I will be on winters, I may drive like an asshole, and you may follow me and ride my bumper. I WILL stop a lot quicker, and you WILL plow into my rear bumper and pay for mtech upgrades for my daily driver."

All it takes is one minor fender bender to justify the costs of a set of winters.

Short and sweet, no need to bring forth statistics and opinions. Again, this is Ontario weather, which = lots of snow (normally), and if you live anywhere in Ontario other than the downtown core, snows are definitely the intelligent choice for those that drive up north.

[nenadbogar]

dont go out without winter tires!

[DUI Elite]

Originally Posted by gary88

Also in Germany it's illegal to drive without winter tires in snowy conditions (specifically you must have appropriate tires for whatever condition you're driving in). If you get in an accident without them most insurance companies won't pay out too. I really wish we could have a requirement like this in some US states. You can buy winter tires to improve your own performance snow/ice, but that will do nothing to stop the person on bald all-seasons behind you from plowing into you when they can't stop in time. For the most part, people here really are clueless when it comes to tires. Many think as long as they aren't visibly falling apart that they're good to go.

Living in Chicago I have tons of experience driving in snow and ice with a few different setups, specifically FWD w/all seasons, AWD w/all seasons, and RWD w/winter tires, and RWD + winter tires is absolutely no question the superior choice.

Big x2.

I got mocked when I told some friends that I had to get new tires and that I was getting winter tires.

Said I was being stupid spending even extra money on having dedicated winter or summer setups. He has a subaru w/ all wheel drive so he's a bit cocky about it.

I thought it was cute.

Originally Posted by BMWWW

"Great, you can stick with all-seasons. However, I will be on winters, I may drive like an asshole, and you may follow me and ride my bumper. I WILL stop a lot quicker, and you WILL plow into my rear bumper and pay for mtech upgrades for my daily driver."

you're giving me ideas...

[The X Men]

This thread is getting more useless post by post. We have posters making general comments from as far south as Atlanta to way up north in Canada. I am pretty sure what is needed for the winter in the Arctics is not needed for the winters in Nigeria.

[gpb]

Originally Posted by DUI Elite

Said I was being stupid spending even extra money on having dedicated winter or summer setups. He has a subaru w/ all wheel drive so he's a bit cocky about it.

Oh he'd be a lot of fun to mess with.

Get him in front of a bunch of other guys and get back to the tire discussion. Bet him $100 you can beat him around the local ice skating rink.
He has to wear moderately new leather-soled dress shoes and you get to wear ice skates.

[gpb]

Originally Posted by The X Men

We have posters making general comments from as far south as Atlanta

Careful on the implied assumptions. I got tired of shoveling snow in upstate NY (south of Syracuse) and moved my frozen a$$ to Atlanta.

I am pretty sure what is needed for the winter in the Arctics is not needed for the winters in Nigeria.

Which is exactly why it's so asinine for people to argue that *their* choice is the best for someone else who lives hundreds of miles away.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

i did look at tirerack, here it is with all data

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/....jsp?&ttid=103

"Conclusion:

While all-season tires MAY provide enough wintertime traction for drivers in areas of the country that only receive occasional light snow, Tire Rack feels THERE ISN'T a viable alternative to dedicated winter / snow tires if drivers expect to encounter deep or frequent slush, snow or ice." < and thats coming from people who SELL AS tires, so there is NO way they will or can tell you that AS tires are complete junk.

All data on tirerack website is based on tire category. So you cant compare data of AS tires to summer tires or winter. That is unless tirerack directly compared AS tires to Winter, which they did in article above.

YOU is just 1 stupid person out of 315000000 people in USA......not even worth the argument when majority on this forum use dedicated tires

Okay so I'll address everyone's comments about my posts in this reply. So I first said winter tires are needed if you live in Calgary. If I lived in a city that had a lot of snowfall every year AND if I didn't have a 4WD truck, sure I'd buy a set of dedicated winter tires. I never said All-Season tires were just as good as Winter tires for deep snow, but they ARE adequate for light snowfall with a driver who is familiar with driving in snow. And they are more than adequate for driving in all four seasons temperature ranges and precipitation except for heavy snow.

But not everyone lives in the Northern lattitudes. I live in Central Virginia, we get large snowfalls every few years, and the occasional 1 - 3 inch storm a few times a Winter. That amount of snowfall does not dictate the need for dedicated winter tires because 95% of the time you are driving on cold, dry roads, where All-Seasons do just fine. Kolyan2K has implied that All-Season tires suck in the summer and suck in the winter and are actually "no-season" tires, which is just not true.

You can compare Tire Rack test data between Summer and All-Season tires because they perform the same tests on both types of tires and mostly using the BMW 3-series. Tire Rack does not publish dry and wet test data for Winter tires for some reason... So I looked at Tire Rack's data for two similarly-priced tires: Yokohama S. Drive and Yokohama AVID ENVigor (which I have on my car). The S. Drive is classified as a high-performance summer tire and the AVID is classified as a high-performance All-Season tire. Both models of tires in Dry and Wet tests are within less than a second of each other in solom and lap times, and are within 10 feet of each other in dry and wet stopping distances and within .1 of a point of each other in cornering. So I'm sorry, but those numbers do not constitute a "safety hazard" as Kolyn2K tried to imply by my use of All-Seasons vs. summer tires in any condition except deep snow.

And as far as the comment about me being 1 stuipid person out of 315,000,000 people in USA, the fact is MOST cars are sold with All-Season tires and apparently the death rate is such that enough of these people don't die (or kill others) to come back and buy new cars over and over. Most 3-series without a sport package are sold with All-Season tires.

Finally, the tire rack article also said that use of Winter tires on dry Winter roads is a compromise of dry traction and tread life... I go for tread life and the great dry traction of All-Seasons.

And to BMWWW: I wouldn't be tailgaiting your ass in snow conditions, so don't worry about it. And if I get to Toronto this Winter, I'll be in my Hummer anyway, which is a far better snow vehicle than your setup. And you think it only takes you 20 minutes to change tires, but it doesn't.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

^ we are in US here. People are so uneducated, they simply don't even know what winter tires or summer tires are (except for enthusiasts)

People here buy SUVs and think its a solution for winter, and moreover some people don't even know that some SUVs are FWD, they are in strong believe that all SUV are AWD.

I told 2 different people that were buying FWD SUVs for their young daughters that they will be much safer with winter tires in winter.....they both didn't believe me and assured me SUV is much safer in snow. And those were adults in their 40s or 50s.......yes the ones that drove 20-30 years of their lives on All Season tires

You would be surprised how many SUVs are on the road here in Boston.....they are everywhere, and probably not ONE uses proper tires. And yes, I have seen many SUVs crashed during winter storms because of false confidence that people get.

Year: Winter 1999. Vehicle 1999 Ford F150 WS 4x4 pickup truck. Tires: not Winter tires but OEM Light Truck all-condition tires. Time: December 31 1999, Jan 1st 2000. Location NY Thruway. Conditions: Nor'Easter Jan 1 2000. F150 driving through 18 - 22 inches of snow. Exit NY thruway plowing snow with bumper, snow coming over hood, to get gas. Only other vehicles in the gas station?: SNOWMOBILES. F150 - Driver (me) pees in toilet, fills 30-gal tank with fresh load of fuel, drives back on thruway pushing snow again and heads South in 20+ inches of snow to PA for the night.