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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > Quaife vs Wavetrac vs OS Giken



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      03-01-2014, 09:56 AM   #199
Brian_VACsales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
Thanks for the response here! Didn't get any responses to the email yesterday, but this works for me as well.
Upthread you said, "Called VAC and their response was that it should still be "ok" as differentials are built to handle lots of trauma." What time did you talk to Steve?

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The picture you have of the other packaging shows white straps helping hold the LSD in place. I just went out and cut open the top of your container so I could look inside. The container you sent me did not have those straps in the package. Which is probably why it was able to flop around and crash through the side of the container and out? If the straps would've been used then it likely would've been ok. Why do you think the straps were not used on my shipment?
The pic also shows a good % of the typical packing material missing. For the record, most people on this forum have received diffs in the mail, in that same crate without the white straps. The straps are a recent improvement that we made just before your diff was shipped. This was not a necessary change forced by damage claims (as I stated up thread, we have not had a problem with packaging) it was an attempt to make things better. We pack the diff solid with cardboard boxes...think about it.

Quote:
I tried to file a claim about 30 minutes ago. Spent about 20 mins going thru the hoops in the online system only to get a response after the submission that this doesn't qualify for a claim. They didn't say why it didn't qualify. And I can't get hold of a human being there to ask... Not sure what to do now.
Hmm, I'll call my rep Monday to see what's going on. This infuriates me as much as you, believe it.

Quote:
If the unit is fully functional and operational and not internally damaged, I'd be OK with keeping it. But I also don't want to go to the time/hassle/$ of installing it only to have a problem.
I'd go with what my diff tech said, that Steve passed to you. That said, I'm already annoyed with them murdering a $15k gearbox and causing everyone lots of drama....let me call UPS Monday.

Quote:
Also, I measure 0.019" of play on the output hubs (I can push/pull them in/out that much). Is that normal/OK?
Yes.
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      03-01-2014, 10:07 AM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
That's interesting to know. I wonder why VAC told me they didn't have any used cores to work with?
As with any core exchange program, supplies are limited and never guaranteed. I typically have a bunch of used 3.08 gas cores, but DCT and diesel are much harder to come by for obvious reasons.

We typically wait till we have 10+ cores (both new and used) on hand, then we have to run the machining process summarized here:
http://www.vacmotorsports.com/blog/v...-how-we-do-it/

If BMW didn't cost engineer (and cock block) the 135/335/535 diffs by welding the crownwheel to the carrier, this would all go MUCH easier. The ring and pinion quality is *very* high, so we can rest assured the diffs will be as strong/reliable as possible stock or when paired with a top quality unit like Quaife or OS Giken.
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      03-01-2014, 10:11 AM   #201
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Good stuff Mike. Hopefully this all works out for TDIwyse and you guys at VAC.
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      03-01-2014, 10:47 AM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@VAC View Post
Upthread you said, "Called VAC and their response was that it should still be "ok" as differentials are built to handle lots of trauma." What time did you talk to Steve?
Actually, I didn't say I talked to Steve. Not sure who it was. My cell phone says I placed that call at 2:29pm. I briefly described the situation but in no detail. Idid think it was odd that the person on the phone said it should be "ok" without seeing any pictures. I told him I had some pictures, and he suggested I email them to you guys. I had Steve's email from previous interactions so I mailed it to him at 3:03pm with a little more description of what I was seeing and questions on how to evaluate the LSD to determine if it might be damaged. I was hoping for a response that same day. But you responding here and in near real time is even better!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@VAC View Post
The pic also shows a good % of the typical packing material missing. For the record, most people on this forum have received diffs in the mail, in that same crate without the white straps. The straps are a recent improvement that we made just before your diff was shipped. This was not a necessary change forced by damage claims (as I stated up thread, we have not had a problem with packaging) it was an attempt to make things better. We pack the diff solid with cardboard boxes...think about it.
That was all the cardboard in the container I received. It didn't break (according to UPS) until it was being carried from the truck to my porch. There was no external cardboard external to the container either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@VAC View Post
Hmm, I'll call my rep Monday to see what's going on. This infuriates me as much as you, believe it.



I'd go with what my diff tech said, that Steve passed to you. That said, I'm already annoyed with them murdering a $15k gearbox and causing everyone lots of drama....let me call UPS Monday.
Thanks.
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      03-01-2014, 11:56 AM   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
Actually, I didn't say I talked to Steve. Not sure who it was. My cell phone says I placed that call at 2:29pm. I briefly described the situation but in no detail. I did think it was odd that the person on the phone said it should be "ok" without seeing any pictures. I told him I had some pictures, and he suggested I email them to you guys. I had Steve's email from previous interactions so I mailed it to him at 3:03pm with a little more description of what I was seeing and questions on how to evaluate the LSD to determine if it might be damaged. I was hoping for a response that same day. But you responding here and in near real time is even better!
I said Steve b/c yesterday at ~4-5PM yesterday he briefly showed me the picture you posted here and I overheard him talking to the diff builder near the end of day yesterday. He either received a call or email from you. 3PM-5PM on a Friday is a crazy time for our shop, but we were on it.

I just called Steve to confirm if he talked to you after talking to the diff builder, but did not get an answer.

Of course such fine detail does not matter too much at this point. This is where we are:

0. We sold you an awesome Quaife equipped Final Drive. We obv appreciate the business ;-) Payment was posted on the 25th, and the unit shipped on the 25th.
1. The diff arrived yesterday, and you told us about this shipping issue ~3PM
2. You did not file a claim with UPS Friday
3. We didn't get you a 100% answer by end of day, but I know 100000% that we were looking into it for you. I bet Steve has an open email sitting on his screen waiting for a line or 2 more of content needing to be sent.
4. You then took to E90 post and voiced your 'disappointment' with VAC in a general product comparison thread before we had a chance to get back to you in a reasonable amount of time. One would think you would be disappointing with UPS as they are the most likely evildoer...
5. I obviously had to reply quickly b/c your careful wording in post #194 made VAC look bad
6. You then attempted to file a UPS claim on a weekend

7. I pledge to make this good for you. This same pledge was implied when we asked you to send us pics yesterday a few hours before closing. Of course, this would have been handled Monday.

With all that said, as usual, we will do our absolute best to get you sorted out :-) I have a bone to pick with UPS esp after the recent gearbox fiasco...

Quote:
That was all the cardboard in the container I received. It didn't break (according to UPS) until it was being carried from the truck to my porch. There was no external cardboard external to the container either.
It can't 'just break' out of the box while being carried. It was obviously abused by someone at UPS....who knows where along the line.
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      03-01-2014, 02:14 PM   #204
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I appreciate your willingness to work with me on this. I also appreciate hearing your new improvement in packaging by strapping the diff to the wood bottom and agree this will be a better engineered packaging setup.

If it didn't come out in the post with the damaged package, I WAS upset with UPS. Your packaging job SHOULD have been adequate if they had handled it appropriately. But they were obviously more harsh with it than the packaging could handle.

The reason I posted online was I needed to find out if I should cancel the appointment for the installation on Monday or not, because I'm sensitive to that business's time/$ impact to having a last minute cancellation. Since no specific response about how to check for potential damage came Friday I posted here seeking guidance on what to look for in regards to potential problems to make an informed decision on the installation appointment. The background on the shipping damage seemed like a necessary piece of information on what may or may not be damaged. I don't think that was unreasonable considering the circumstances. However, it obviously upset you, and for that I'm sorry.

I did cancel the appointment for Monday, which I hate doing due to affecting that companies scheduling.

Looking forward to working with you further on this.
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      03-01-2014, 03:21 PM   #205
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I own those crates. Theyre rated for 500lbs. It was dropped.
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      03-01-2014, 03:46 PM   #206
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maybe not the answer but worth keeping it in the back of anyone's mind



http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...20package&sm=1
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      03-01-2014, 03:46 PM   #207
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Oh, not upset - I get the hustle.

No worries at all - I am upset with UPS, that's certain!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
I appreciate your willingness to work with me on this. I also appreciate hearing your new improvement in packaging by strapping the diff to the wood bottom and agree this will be a better engineered packaging setup.

If it didn't come out in the post with the damaged package, I WAS upset with UPS. Your packaging job SHOULD have been adequate if they had handled it appropriately. But they were obviously more harsh with it than the packaging could handle.

The reason I posted online was I needed to find out if I should cancel the appointment for the installation on Monday or not, because I'm sensitive to that business's time/$ impact to having a last minute cancellation. Since no specific response about how to check for potential damage came Friday I posted here seeking guidance on what to look for in regards to potential problems to make an informed decision on the installation appointment. The background on the shipping damage seemed like a necessary piece of information on what may or may not be damaged. I don't think that was unreasonable considering the circumstances. However, it obviously upset you, and for that I'm sorry.

I did cancel the appointment for Monday, which I hate doing due to affecting that companies scheduling.

Looking forward to working with you further on this.
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      03-01-2014, 04:08 PM   #208
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Hey, in all the confusion and frustration I didn't notice this. This was delivered when no one was home. But there's a "Signature Required" sticker on the top that has red tape X'ing it out. Was I supposed to sign for this on delivery? Because no one here signed for it...
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      03-01-2014, 04:10 PM   #209
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Drop and run man.
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      03-01-2014, 04:16 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by dixy2k View Post
maybe not the answer but worth keeping it in the back of anyone's mind



http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...20package&sm=1
Ugh.

FedEx isn't any better. They lost my $4k time trial bike several years ago. I had "insured" it (which by the way, isn't insurance .... you're just raising the limit of their liability) for $4k. They lost it mid shipment. Spent 1 month of fighting them through their process. They weren't doing anything until I got my home owners insurance involved. They considered it theft, paid me the $4k, and then went after FedEx. Within 2 days FedEx immediately changed their tune and paid up. But it was much more stress and fussing around than it needed to be.
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      03-01-2014, 04:22 PM   #211
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I think it comes down to the individual too. Some are probably not strong enough to carry and lift 100 pounds. My brake rotors came a couple of months ago from USPS to Canada Post here. I'm not misogynistic in any way but my letter carrier is an older lady and she struggled to carry the rotors from her truck. I ran out half way and took them off her hands for fear of them dropping.

I'd shudder at the sight of her even attempting to carry that box from VAC towards me.
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      03-01-2014, 08:12 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Mike@VAC View Post
If BMW didn't cost engineer (and cock block)
Let me just say how refreshing it is to see a vendor talk like a real person. Kudos sir. I don't know if my better half will let me order an LSD, but if she will, I think I just found my source.
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      03-04-2014, 04:41 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
Hey, in all the confusion and frustration I didn't notice this. This was delivered when no one was home. But there's a "Signature Required" sticker on the top that has red tape X'ing it out. Was I supposed to sign for this on delivery? Because no one here signed for it...
My wife called me at work this afternoon to let me know a UPS representative showed up at the house and tried to get her to sign for the package that was delivered last Friday. Fortunately she refused.

Mike called me Monday night and we had a productive conversation. Today he called and said he filed a claim with UPS. They are supposed to be scheduling a time to come pick up the item.

VAC doesn't have anymore units for sale at the moment but may have more in a couple weeks. So unfortunately I'll be without a LSD and my $ for awhile. I was hoping to compare the behavior with the LSD on the snowing/icy driveway to the video earlier with the stock "eLSD" and open diff. But by the time this gets resolved we won't (good grief I hope not! although it was -18F yesterday morning) have any snow/ice...
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      03-04-2014, 05:15 PM   #214
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Shady stuff from UPS...lol. Nice to see Mike and VAC stick by their guns.
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      03-06-2014, 03:20 PM   #215
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Looks like late May will be when I get my LSD.
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      03-06-2014, 03:50 PM   #216
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Looks like late May will be when I get my LSD.
Is that when the law legalizing LSD in Canada goes into effect?
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      03-06-2014, 04:03 PM   #217
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Is that when the law legalizing LSD in Canada goes into effect?
That's when I'll feel less guilty throwing more money into this car.
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      03-08-2014, 09:10 AM   #218
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Just picked up some differential gear oil. I've have had the Delrin Racing differential bushings sitting there for over a year. Hopefully this "pushes" me to finally buy the LSD this May.
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      03-29-2014, 07:42 PM   #219
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Mike and VAC came through with a 2nd unit that was just built from a used core. Arrived Friday at the UPS hub and I picked it up there to keep the home delivery from happening (that's where things went badly last time). Packaging was unmolested and intact. Due to it being the weekend and not being very patient I did the removal and install myself. It went well and the online DIY's I read about were helpful. First couple test drives today went well with no unusual sounds, vibrations, clunks, issues. So far so good.

For those considering a DIY, I'd recommend this route for a 50mm wrench that works well on the driveshaft/differential nut. They were less expensive than other options I looked at, and you actually get two of them, and they each have wrench openings for use with a breaker bar or torque wrench.

http://www.rockymountainatvmc.com/p/...29-50mm?v=1685

Having never done this before, I took my time and went slow. It was a lot of fussing around. Took me ~7 hrs to complete by myself. To help lower/raise the differential I built a pedestal for my floor jack and had some interesting moments of working the jack handle with one leg while bench pressing/lifting/positioning the differentials with my arms/hands... It would be a lot easier with two guys.

So far I've just been breaking it in slowly with relatively short, slow drives and then allowing things to cool off before driving again.

All the snow/ice is gone so I can't do an apples to apples comparison of the behavior vs the stock diff from the video linked earlier. Will likely have to wait until next winter for that.

Hadn't seen a weight comparison while researching this. Today as I measured them the OEM diff with fluid was ~80 lbs. The Quaife LSD with fluid was ~85 lbs.

Spring is here and I'm looking forward to playing with the traction capability.
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      04-07-2014, 04:32 PM   #220
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There should be a used 335d core at VAC later this week if anyone is interested.

No snow/ice around to compare to the OEM unit (which would spin only one wheel), but on the "wet grass" test (it's the best I could do with the reality at hand) the Quaife spins both tires equally well ... and got me in trouble with the wife for leaving two strips in the side yard.
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