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Why can't Shiv create a flash tune?
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07-06-2009, 09:59 PM | #45 | |
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I think also it comes down to dealer invisibility. Since the N54 is relatively new, most people would like to preserve their warranties. All eithics aside, I would guess most people would go with a Piggyback tuning solution VS a flashed solution UNLESS someone came out with a home flashing solution or had easy access to a tuner that could flash back to stock on demand. The fact that even dealers have issues with flashing the ECU from time to time, a home flashing solution seems out of the question in regards to a relatively affordable solution. |
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07-06-2009, 10:00 PM | #46 |
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OK, I understand what you are saying. I'm just trying to prevent a general discussion of flashes vs. piggys. I want a specific discussion on why these tuners are not offering the product when there are more and more flashes are becoming available. I don't know of any other piggy-back systems besides JB and Procede, and I haven't heard any new tuners using this method and are rather creating flashes. Why is that?
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07-06-2009, 10:59 PM | #47 | |
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A flash would be a 'great leap forward' only in the way it was in China under Mao. |
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07-07-2009, 01:01 AM | #48 |
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By reprogramming DME one can play Jingle Bells, flash christmas trees on the screens and manage millions of engine management parameters. There is no limit, but learning the DME first takes time.
Piggies intersept just a few signals. So they are limited in what they can do. Fast to develop for new platforms, but flashes will take over and piggies move to the following new platforms in which they have the advantage. That's why the piggyback market is so great. For the most customers, intercepting a few signals is more than enough. Managing all the parameters in DME is a very different game from trying to make the most out of intercepting the signals. Wise men stick to the game they master. Not concentrating fully on piggyback development but trying to win two games could make them lose in both. For a new tuner in N54, what's the point of going the piggyback route? There is a limit, and the competition is almost there already. There would be no way to be any better than the current champs. |
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07-07-2009, 01:12 AM | #49 | |
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07-07-2009, 08:48 AM | #50 |
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I bet a dollar within 2 years of this post Vishnu will have a reflash available for the N54. I'm not saying whether it will be because of a lack of demand for the piggyback or the amount of demand for a reflash but, I bet it will happen.
As a business you can only ignore what a large amount of people want for so long while they are handing their money to others. |
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07-07-2009, 11:00 AM | #51 | |
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07-07-2009, 11:22 AM | #52 |
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Lots of nonsense in this thread.
Flashing doesn't cost $1000 every time. Google the Accessport we used to use tuning subies. Plug it in, flash the ECU to whatever map you want, including dozens and dozens of customs maps for common mod combinations. You absolutely can mail the product. Holy misinformation batman! The reason they're not out yet, is because of the vast differences in the hardware/technology between what the Suby ECUTek guys were using, and what BMW uses for their ECU (DME). Eventually, the tuners crack (or purchase) the ability to edit the chip directly, and thus, custom flash it. It'll happen eventually, but because it's so much more complicated for this car, it'll likely take a lot longer to evolve. Eventually, it'll all be flashes though. It's a much better solution than a piggyback. "Tricking" the computer into thinking something else is happening will always be second best to having the timing and fuelling custom designed to each specific set of mods. dR |
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07-07-2009, 11:26 AM | #53 |
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07-07-2009, 11:31 AM | #54 | |
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http://www.dashhawk.com/ That is all Shiv is doing. There is no data being changed on the CANBUS (at least in regards to engine parameters). I have no idea what he is doing on the display. I remember hearing about displaying a numerical boost number there, but never heard if he got it working. Now, he can monitor what is going on and whatever sensor signals he is interpreting he can change the output to try to adjust based on the CAN information. But it is still 'tricking' the DME. It works, and he makes power. But don't think he is actually changing data in the DME directly. It is a cause and effect type deal. |
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07-07-2009, 11:53 AM | #56 |
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I think Shiv mentioned in the post that he can monitor more engine parameters with the CANBUS. So, I want to know if he has as much control in the parameters with a piggy as opposed to a flash tune and that the only difference is the technique (intercepting vs. directly overwriting the DME).
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07-07-2009, 12:00 PM | #57 | |
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Flashes for the evo are on completely different level. Most mail in flashes or custom tuning will cost you $300 give or take a few, each time your re-tuned or re-flashed and that doesn't include dyno time if that is how you choose to get tuned. Tuners won't charge you $350 once and then give you unlimited flashes when you put more parts on. Their out to make money not give away their tuning abilities for free.
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07-07-2009, 12:04 PM | #58 | |
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It is cause and effect really. It works, clearly... but being able to tell the DME exactly what to do is better. But until someone with the ability to flash goes for a horsepower trophy, the flashes will always be looked down upon as inferior (because they make less power right now). |
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07-07-2009, 12:07 PM | #59 | |
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07-07-2009, 12:09 PM | #60 | |
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What about the other flashes that are becoming available? Do you know their policy on flashing higher stages? Now, you mentioned a piggy. So people with Procede 1.47 can use these new maps? Nope, they had to upgrade somewhere along the line. If they were smart, they held out for a while and did not upgrade at every new revision. |
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07-07-2009, 12:16 PM | #61 | |
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07-07-2009, 12:24 PM | #62 |
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Let's face it... Every tune, piggy or flash, is a rip off. We get the power we want and they get all the cash. We're suckers.
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07-07-2009, 12:33 PM | #63 |
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how is it a rip off? you get a product or service and pay $ for it. There are hundreds of hours of labor and capital for testing equipment on top of the costs for wires, chips, solder etc. that you see when installing the piggyback.
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07-07-2009, 12:47 PM | #64 |
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It was a joke.
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07-07-2009, 12:51 PM | #65 | |
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And yes, we can alter CANbus data as well as read it. Shiv Last edited by OpenFlash; 07-07-2009 at 01:07 PM.. |
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07-07-2009, 01:10 PM | #66 |
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